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what should Trump do about the shutdown?

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posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 10:13 AM
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a reply to: dawnstar


well, each senator is free to vote as they see fit??

I actually wonder about that. Democrats in Congress typically vote as a block lately. Not a good thing, IMO, and it makes me wonder if that's not something wrong in itself. How can every single Democrat have exactly the same position on every single issue?


and you say you agree with the idea of cloture because it prevents either party from ruling from a thin majority...
well, you kind of sound like you might want that thin majority to rule now.

No, i simply agree with funding the wall, for reasons I have already outlined. To say that means I want the cloture rule revoked or for the GOP to have free rein on all matters is short-sighted IMO. I may disagree with them on the next issue.

Not sure if you have picked up on the umpteen hundred times I have said this, but I am not a Republican. I am now, always will be, and always have been a proud registered Independent. I hold allegiance to no political party. My opinions are not dictated by anyone but myself.


and, just because some people don't really like the idea of trump's wall does not mean that they want "open borders" that allow people to just flow back and forth unchallenged. there's been numerous reasons given to not want it that seem to be reasonable.

I haven't heard any.

I have heard that "walls don't work"... which is provably untrue, as they have made passage into an area difficult since time immemorial and studies prove that they still do... which is why Israel and several other countries use them.

I have heard it is too expensive... but it's a minuscule fraction of our budget.

I have heard it's not necessary... but reports show otherwise.


there's one that I really don't hear much being said about.

Eminent Domain is used all the time for other things, even to take private land and give it to private developers in some instances. Thankfully, that linked case article was shot down by the courts, but it did have a decent amount of support (from people who did not own the land in the first place of course).

The only reason Eminent Domain was not used for the previous fence appropriations is because the administrations refused to pursue it aggressively. While there will always be a few holdouts, I personally know some people who would love to sell the government a part of their land along the border, because border crime is so great they can't use it and certainly can't sell it.

TheRedneck




posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 10:16 AM
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originally posted by: GeechQuestInfo

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: GeechQuestInfo

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: GeechQuestInfo

what part did you find funny?


It would be tough to pick out my absolute favorite, but if I had to choose from your ramblings that made me laugh...


originally posted by: network dude

For the record, the shutdown hasn't effected me yet.


...this one stands out. I spit out water with the image of George Lucas/Michael Bay using their CGI magic on you.


wow, that one was indeed hilarious. Now, when you asked "Why do you need a wall if you can just “shut down the border”? "

and I replied:

sadly, all you can do is stop accepting the folks who come through the legal crossings. Since there ins't a wall, the illegals can still swim across the river and run through the desert. It's almost as if, ......the wall......might......stop or at least hinder those who would break our immigration laws.


then you said:

...sigh.... Best of luck in life


I was a bit lost. You asked a stupid question, I offered a logical answer, then you replied with another stupid response. And now you are the grammar police. Perhaps we should slow down and start at the beginning. Do you understand what I wrote about the border? DO you grasp that without a barrier, some people will not follow the rules?

I have an idea. Watch this clip, and then see if you can grasp the context of why it applies to our current situation.


It's nice to see you were educated by Mel Brooks, that makes one of us.


no sense and no humor? damn, you must be a blast at a party.



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 10:23 AM
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DISCLAIMER: Yes, I am an "excepted employee" to the government furlough, meaning that I have to report to work and actually do work while I am not getting paid. By law, the government will have to reimburse me for my time, so I will be getting a paycheck, even if it's partial (right now, the federal holidays have to be claimed as unpaid furlough hours, and it will take Congress to pay federal employees for those days). That said, I don't know WHEN that reimbursement will happen, and it won't be processed until the furlough ends, with has an indefinite end date.


a reply to: network dude

Trump and the Democrats both need to sit down and compromise. I have my own opinions on the wall, but that is neither here nor there--compromise is a lost art that needs to be revived, and the absolute funding of the border wall should not be something that holds us federal employees hostage.

The reality of the situation is that, under Obama and then again under Trump already, we have seen shutdowns happen, some that lasted longer than a pay period and had a real impact on people's abilities to pay bills and feed their families. In all cases, a compromise has happened to end the stupidity.

Trump needs to decide that maybe breaking up the funding for the wall into stages, funding each stage separately, may be a better approach. It might be more palatable to the Dems, and will also allow the ability to do real-world inspections into both the impact of wall sections on the illegal-immigration issue as well as ensure that the contractors paid to build it are being efficient in time and money.

The Dems need to admit that illegal immigration is a large problem, just like they admitted it to be not so long ago (you can find all of the videos online of Democratic senators, presidents, congressmen, and other state and local politicians admitting as much). They need to quit making it a politicized issue and just do what is better for the country, and enhanced security at the border through which human and drug trafficking occurs the most, as well as violence and other illegal activity, occurs is highly needed and should be a relative priority.

Trump should be willing to compromise, and the Dems should, too. This is nothing more than a stunt to delay the budget bill until there is a Dem majority in the house, and then suddenly things will start working. It's pathetic, and it's asinine, and it's unnecessary. All the while, there are many, many Americans directly affected by this fabricated political stalemate, and in the end, the death of this shutdown sits with Trump.

"Obstructionist" was a term thrown around constantly during Obama's tenure, and it should apply here, too. But not just to one part--when both act this way, both share the "obstructionist" title. They are obstructing the livelihoods of many people because politics, and while Pelosi and Schumer and Trump was to see whose hangs the lowest (my bet is on Pelosi), there are some of us being held hostage for no logical reason.

Pelosi and Schumer need to grow up, as does Trump--this isn't a game to those affected who don't have a vote on the matter, and it's apparent to every thinking adult that this type of issue should have been ironed out long before the deadline to vote.

Procrastination and division are going to be this country's downfall.



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 10:26 AM
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originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: iplay1up2

They have my sympathy, but they should have been more responsible with their finances.

The Govt hasn't even been shut down long enough for anyone to have missed a paycheck.

While you're correct in the latter, you understand that there are federal employees that live paycheck to paycheck, right?

You can't berate them for bad financial decisions (as if you know the circumstances) and then turn around and pretend like they shouldn't be preparing financially for a missed paycheck in the future, which affects financial issues right now.

Come on...at least be intellectually consistent if you're going to blame the victims of a process over which they have no control.



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 10:35 AM
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Trump should stick to his promise and let congress figure it out. Its time to get tuff.



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 10:36 AM
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I hope that the shutdown goes on long enough that it becomes the new norm. There's no reason why we have non-essential government employees/services, especially with the size of our national debt.

The private sector has more jobs than can be filled right now. I'd much rather see these people get jobs where they produce something of value instead of being a burden on taxpayers.

www.cnbc.com...



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 10:39 AM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: dawnstar

Not sure if you have picked up on the umpteen hundred times I have said this, but I am not a Republican. I am now, always will be, and always have been a proud registered Independent. I hold allegiance to no political party. My opinions are not dictated by anyone but myself.


What do you call an independent who only votes Republican?



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 10:43 AM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

you are right in that compromise is how things like this are settled, and if our leaders were adults who cared about the country first and their greedy bank accounts second, none of this would have ever happened. But that isn't the case at all. I'll offer this in Trump's defense, he has been very consistent in that he acts like a petulant child. It seems his super power is that he makes everyone around him act the same.

I enjoy the reflection his presidency has caused for the arrogant assholes, who may still refuse to see it for what it is, but I hope for a better option of leadership in the future.

I'm sorry for you and all who might have a disruption in pay over this, but in the end, I'd wager everyone will get their money, and some for not even working.

As I said in the OP, since Trump will never make those who hate him change their minds, trying to please them seems like such a bad idea. And as you said, since democrats were all for a stronger border less than 10 years ago, it's a shame they are using their TDS coupled with plain hate, to guide their decisions. Their words exist for all to see, and apparently for those opposed to ignore.


ETA: WLYB
edit on 28-12-2018 by network dude because: Merry Christmas and Happy new year!



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 10:45 AM
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originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: dawnstar

Not sure if you have picked up on the umpteen hundred times I have said this, but I am not a Republican. I am now, always will be, and always have been a proud registered Independent. I hold allegiance to no political party. My opinions are not dictated by anyone but myself.


What do you call an independent who only votes Republican?


what do you call someone who ASSumes things?
edit on 28-12-2018 by network dude because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 10:49 AM
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originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: dawnstar

Not sure if you have picked up on the umpteen hundred times I have said this, but I am not a Republican. I am now, always will be, and always have been a proud registered Independent. I hold allegiance to no political party. My opinions are not dictated by anyone but myself.


What do you call an independent who only votes Republican?


what do you call someone who ASSumes thing?


Guilty as charged!



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 10:51 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

I have said it before. Illegal going over the fence in Mexico.... An Americam citizen crossing the fence at Area 51....

What happens where? Why the difference?



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 10:51 AM
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a reply to: JBIZZ

guess you don't like the border patrol??
The TSA, the national parks??

okay...



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 10:56 AM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey


Trump needs to decide that maybe breaking up the funding for the wall into stages, funding each stage separately, may be a better approach.

The issue there is that Congress has a long history of promising and not following through. I have already mentioned the Reagan deal they reneged on back in the 1980s, and of course network dude has mentioned the deal they already reneged on with Trump just this year. A certain amount of trust between parties is required when future concessions are a part of the deal, and Congress has shown itself to be about as trustworthy as a ticked off rattlesnake.

That said, I agree with your statement on compromise. It used to mean a deal where both parties got something they wanted, but neither got everything they wanted. It has somehow morphed into meaning a deal where one party can either get everything they wanted while the other gets nothing, or one where an agreement is reached that one party can easily break, attaining the same end result. Neither of those are compromise.

If we are to ever have compromise again, we need to elect people to Congress that have the ability to look at a situation and realize they are not there to attack the other side, but to do a job. There can be no compromise until that happens. Compromise takes two parties by definition.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 10:58 AM
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a reply to: Wayfarer


What do you call an independent who only votes Republican?

I don't know; I've never met one.

I have never pulled the party lever for either party. I vote for the person who I think will do the best job.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 11:05 AM
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originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: SlapMonkey

I'll offer this in Trump's defense, he has been very consistent in that he acts like a petulant child. It seems his super power is that he makes everyone around him act the same.

Yeah, you're not wrong, except I'm uncertain if that is much of a defense LOL


If he is nothing, though, he is consistent with his petulance, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse.


I enjoy the reflection his presidency has caused for the arrogant assholes, who may still refuse to see it for what it is, but I hope for a better option of leadership in the future.

I sort of agree...sort of want to see him have 8 years. I think that he has done plenty of good where it matters, and things like this shutdown are temporary and usually have no lasting effect.

Tax cuts, better trade deals, getting out of asinine multi-national pacts and agreements, giving terminal patients a right to experiment with new procedures, better immigration law enforcement, bettering relations with NK, giving federal land back to states, and many other things that he has done have positive lasting impacts (IMO). Overall, he's doing a good job, if only he didn't have access to Twitter and was less prone to grandstanding. Those are his two major downfalls, and if he would set aside pride for a little better public persona, we'd be a lot better off as a nation (because it creates such a deep divide).


I'm sorry for you and all who might have a disruption in pay over this, but in the end, I'd wager everyone will get their money, and some for not even working.

Agreed, but don't feel too sympathetic for me--when you sign a deal with the devil, you take the good with the bad.


As I said in the OP, since Trump will never make those who hate him change their minds, trying to please them seems like such a bad idea. And as you said, since democrats were all for a stronger border less than 10 years ago, it's a shame they are using their TDS coupled with plain hate, to guide their decisions. Their words exist for all to see, and apparently for those opposed to ignore.

Unfortunately, ideology not only blinds people, but makes them deaf and mute, too.


ETA: WLYB

Who has two thumbs and is typing this response?...
edit on 28-12-2018 by SlapMonkey because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 11:06 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

but if much of the work is gonna be held up in court over domain issues for decades why the need for all the money now??
who knows what will happen in a decade or two, heck, heck we could have killer robots deployed at the border by then.



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 11:12 AM
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The OP is right nobody has missed a paycheck yet.

And the poor guy ho can't buy a headstone I call BS because my wife sells them as part of her business. Deposit on order takes months to get pay when installed. Can order with minimal down.


HAPPY FRIDAY!!!+



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 11:23 AM
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originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: TheRedneck

but if much of the work is gonna be held up in court over domain issues for decades why the need for all the money now??
who knows what will happen in a decade or two, heck, heck we could have killer robots deployed at the border by then.




how do you know Trump isn't planning on building killer robots to patrol the border? They aren't free you know.



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 11:25 AM
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a reply to: caterpillage

How about shutting the military for 1 day and the rest of the USA and the world gets a breather.



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 11:33 AM
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originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: network dude

Like all children he should learn that you can't always get what you want and put the needs of his country above his political desire.
Hard for a Billionaire who isn't used to being told No but it might teach him an important life lesson.


He is putting the wishes of the half of the public who voted him into the office of POTUS ahead of those who wish to destroy him. When you look at it like that, it kind of sound different huh?


Only 26% of eligible voters voted for Trump. That's not even close to half of the country, nor is even close to half of eligible voters.

Orange Man Terrible!

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edit on 28-12-2018 by EmmanuelGoldstein because: (no reason given)







 
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