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what should Trump do about the shutdown?

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posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 08:49 AM
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a reply to: dawnstar


ya, but it seems to be Trump that is giving congress the impression that he will support the bills they are working on but then changing his mind halfway through the process and telling them it's just gonna get a veto if it hits his desk.

In the 1980s, Ronald Reagan made an agreement with Congress: he would sign on to grant amnesty to hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens in the US, if Congress would fund enhanced border security. Congress agreed and sent him the amnesty bill. Reagan signed it into law. 30+ years later, Congress has still not funded the enhanced security Reagan was promised.

Earlier this year, Congress sent President Trump a spending bill which was chock full of pork and wasteful spending. Trump signed it into law. Now we are discovering why: he was promised funding later in 2018 for a border wall if he signed the Omnibus bill. Well, it is December 28th. In four days, the year will be over, and still no funding for the border wall. So who is changing their minds halfway through what?

The Reagan fiasco is the very reason why a wall is even necessary. Had Congress simply done what they promised in the 1980s, there would be no need for a wall. But they didn't, and now the problem is so bad nothing else will work. It is obvious that Congress is fine with open borders, so the only real solution is something that will operate without funding once built: a wall. Once it is in place, Congress can't stop it from existing by cutting funding.

That is, IMO, the real reason why it is opposed so much.

TheRedneck




posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 08:51 AM
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originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: dawnstar

I had heard Trump made a deal that he approved the last budget, without wall funding, and a bunch of garbage pork, with a promise that the next one would have his wall funding. If that really is the case, there ins't anyone else to look at but those who didn't keep their end of the deal up. But I haven't found a link to prove that, so until one exists, it's not a fact.


He supported the Senate's tenporary funding bill which dis not include anything for his wall. But it was just moving the deadline 90 days. It went to the house and died.

Democrats now have the ball in the house. They will have to come up with a funding bill that the senate will accept. I expect Nancy to go on for another two weeks then she will dust off the temporary bill and pass that.

Now Trumps best option here don't play let the government shut down. Because no matter the outcome he will catch the blame. So if hes going to take the heat he might as well get what he wants.

But watch as the Republicans switch the script and blame the democrats because they want open borders. That isnt going to play well with most Americans. So in the end if Trump keeps talking about securing the border he will win that argument



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 08:51 AM
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originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: network dude

What Congress could have done, and what Congress should have done, is to send him a bill regardless. That way, had he vetoed it, I would be agreeing that the shutdown was at least in most Trump's fault. Now, the way it is, without even a bill for him to sign, I'm just laughing at the fools thinking Trump has any power here. The only power he has is in the heads of an apparently partially-witted Congress.

I started to say half-witted, but that was giving them far too much credit.

Instead, the idiots leading the Democrats in Congress decided that since Trump threatened to take the heat by vetoing a spending bill that did not include the funding he was promised, that meant they didn't need to do anything except complain about Trump to "win." Now it's up to the people to decide in 2020 whether or not they want that tactic, by using their Congressional vote.

TheRedneck


Nice spaghetti logic. You aren't/weren't going to ever blame Trump for ANY shutdown, even if he went to your door and admitted that he 'owns it'.

He admitted that he 'owns it'. That wasn't an exempted admission, it was a total one. Now you're feeble flailing trying to logic how even though your idiotic messiah after having bumbled into willfully taking responsibility for something isn't actually responsible for it, which makes both you and him look even more silly.

Fortunately the plurality of American citizens don't share your undying and unquestioning love for Trump.


in order for you to be correct, Trump would have to have veto'd something. What did he veto?



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 08:51 AM
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a reply to: gortex


Is the opinion of the people in those two states regarded as less than the opinion of other Americans ?
I thought all were equal under the flag.

Yes, they are. We are the United States of America, not the United States of California and New York.

All citizens get one vote, regardless of what state they live in. Sucks, don't it? All that equality for everyone...

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 08:54 AM
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originally posted by: dragonridr

Now Trumps best option here don't play let the government shut down. Because no matter the outcome he will catch the blame. So if hes going to take the heat he might as well get what he wants.


Bingo. that is the entire point.



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 08:56 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: network dude

Trump should agree to whatever congress budgets then re-open government. . . . . .


And then shut down the border completely until he gets funding for the wall.



Why do you need a wall if you can just “shut down the border”?




posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 08:57 AM
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originally posted by: LordAhriman
I still get a decent base salary, but my paycheck is largely commission based on sales to the Air Force. 2 of my biggest accounts are shut down right now.

That's not my biggest problem though. I have money. I'm 3 people short, and I can't hire anybody! eVerify and federal background checks are not happening right now. I'm working 10-13 hour days, 7 days a week, until this childish nonsense is over.


lucky for you, with all that work, you still have time to post here. But you could let this be a learning experience. Shut downs have happened, before and they might happen again. If you work for the government, you have to be ready for things like this.



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 08:59 AM
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originally posted by: GeechQuestInfo

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: network dude

Trump should agree to whatever congress budgets then re-open government. . . . . .


And then shut down the border completely until he gets funding for the wall.



Why do you need a wall if you can just “shut down the border”?



sadly, all you can do is stop accepting the folks who come through the legal crossings. Since there ins't a wall, the illegals can still swim across the river and run through the desert. It's almost as if, ......the wall......might......stop or at least hinder those who would break our immigration laws.



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 08:59 AM
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a reply to: dawnstar


and I had heard that when the deal for the dreamers was dropped because trump no longer supported it, that they would take it up as a separate issue, which they didn't, they went straight to let's give the rich and famous giant tax cuts and really hike up our debt instead.

Trump supported the DACA bill, even more than the Democrats. The reason it was dropped is because Trump wanted wall funding and the end to the unrestricted chain immigration and lottery immigration as well. All reasonable proposals, IMO. Instead of sending a bill to Trump, the Senate Democrats blocked the bill. They apparently care less about the Dreamers than they do about keeping the borders open (despite what they say).

Trump will eventually be required by the Supreme Court to deport the Dreamers, which is a shame. The issue is slowly working its way to the Supreme Court, which I feel certain will strike down DACA as unconstitutionally implemented (as in not approved by Congress). Once that happens, Trump has access to a database of Dreamers from Obama's policy and will have no excuse to not deport them, under a court order to do so.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 09:00 AM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: network dude

What Congress could have done, and what Congress should have done, is to send him a bill regardless. That way, had he vetoed it, I would be agreeing that the shutdown was at least in most Trump's fault. Now, the way it is, without even a bill for him to sign, I'm just laughing at the fools thinking Trump has any power here. The only power he has is in the heads of an apparently partially-witted Congress.

I started to say half-witted, but that was giving them far too much credit.

Instead, the idiots leading the Democrats in Congress decided that since Trump threatened to take the heat by vetoing a spending bill that did not include the funding he was promised, that meant they didn't need to do anything except complain about Trump to "win." Now it's up to the people to decide in 2020 whether or not they want that tactic, by using their Congressional vote.

TheRedneck


“C’mon guys, all he did was SAY VERBATIM that he wouldn’t sign any bill that didn’t include funding for the wall. You know his words mean as much to him as his marriage. Just give him a bill and let him sign it...”



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 09:00 AM
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originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: network dude

What Congress could have done, and what Congress should have done, is to send him a bill regardless. That way, had he vetoed it, I would be agreeing that the shutdown was at least in most Trump's fault. Now, the way it is, without even a bill for him to sign, I'm just laughing at the fools thinking Trump has any power here. The only power he has is in the heads of an apparently partially-witted Congress.

I started to say half-witted, but that was giving them far too much credit.

Instead, the idiots leading the Democrats in Congress decided that since Trump threatened to take the heat by vetoing a spending bill that did not include the funding he was promised, that meant they didn't need to do anything except complain about Trump to "win." Now it's up to the people to decide in 2020 whether or not they want that tactic, by using their Congressional vote.

TheRedneck


Nice spaghetti logic. You aren't/weren't going to ever blame Trump for ANY shutdown, even if he went to your door and admitted that he 'owns it'.

He admitted that he 'owns it'. That wasn't an exempted admission, it was a total one. Now you're feeble flailing trying to logic how even though your idiotic messiah after having bumbled into willfully taking responsibility for something isn't actually responsible for it, which makes both you and him look even more silly.

Fortunately the plurality of American citizens don't share your undying and unquestioning love for Trump.


in order for you to be correct, Trump would have to have veto'd something. What did he veto?


The only CR that can likely make it through the senate doesn't have enough wall funding to sate Trump's desire. His wishes and directives over how he'll deal with any budget or CR that makes it to his desk without his 5+Billion is directly why the senate isn't even bothering at this point. The fact that he has or has not vetoed it yet is inconsequential. The fact that he has publicly and proudly expressed the desire to shut the government down and 'own that shutdown' is effectively whats driving the current situation.



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 09:01 AM
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originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: GeechQuestInfo

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: network dude

Trump should agree to whatever congress budgets then re-open government. . . . . .


And then shut down the border completely until he gets funding for the wall.



Why do you need a wall if you can just “shut down the border”?



sadly, all you can do is stop accepting the folks who come through the legal crossings. Since there ins't a wall, the illegals can still swim across the river and run through the desert. It's almost as if, ......the wall......might......stop or at least hinder those who would break our immigration laws.


...sigh....

Best of luck in life



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 09:03 AM
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originally posted by: GeechQuestInfo

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: network dude

Trump should agree to whatever congress budgets then re-open government. . . . . .


And then shut down the border completely until he gets funding for the wall.



Why do you need a wall if you can just “shut down the border”?




Because people are crossing illegally.

Hence the term; Illegal Aliens.

You're welcome.



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 09:05 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: GeechQuestInfo

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: network dude

Trump should agree to whatever congress budgets then re-open government. . . . . .


And then shut down the border completely until he gets funding for the wall.



Why do you need a wall if you can just “shut down the border”?




Because people are crossing illegally.

Hence the term; Illegal Aliens.

You're welcome.


So shutting down the border prevents illegal crossings? Sound logic you got there...

Keep fighting the good fight

El oh el.



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 09:07 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: GeechQuestInfo

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: network dude

Trump should agree to whatever congress budgets then re-open government. . . . . .


And then shut down the border completely until he gets funding for the wall.



Why do you need a wall if you can just “shut down the border”?




Because people are crossing illegally.

Hence the term; Illegal Aliens.

You're welcome.


This is good logic, because when you think this way, once the wall is built anyone who crosses (either over/under or even through the gate) is legal!

Problem solved



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 09:07 AM
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originally posted by: GeechQuestInfo

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: GeechQuestInfo

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: network dude

Trump should agree to whatever congress budgets then re-open government. . . . . .


And then shut down the border completely until he gets funding for the wall.



Why do you need a wall if you can just “shut down the border”?




Because people are crossing illegally.

Hence the term; Illegal Aliens.

You're welcome.


So shutting down the border prevents illegal crossings? Sound logic you got there...

Keep fighting the good fight

El oh el.


No. Shutting down the border (an act well within the rights of POTUS) will harm democrat congressional districts in California and districts along the southern border.

Maybe that will spur republicans and democrats to actually get off their fat asses and do something instead of flapping their gums.



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 09:07 AM
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originally posted by: GeechQuestInfo

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: GeechQuestInfo

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: network dude

Trump should agree to whatever congress budgets then re-open government. . . . . .


And then shut down the border completely until he gets funding for the wall.



Why do you need a wall if you can just “shut down the border”?



sadly, all you can do is stop accepting the folks who come through the legal crossings. Since there ins't a wall, the illegals can still swim across the river and run through the desert. It's almost as if, ......the wall......might......stop or at least hinder those who would break our immigration laws.


...sigh....

Best of luck in life


sigh......you as well.



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 09:08 AM
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originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: GeechQuestInfo

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: network dude

Trump should agree to whatever congress budgets then re-open government. . . . . .


And then shut down the border completely until he gets funding for the wall.



Why do you need a wall if you can just “shut down the border”?




Because people are crossing illegally.

Hence the term; Illegal Aliens.

You're welcome.


This is good logic, because when you think this way, once the wall is built anyone who crosses (either over/under or even through the gate) is legal!

Problem solved


I know you hate America and want open borders, but there will always be people who will disagree with your ideology.



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 09:09 AM
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a reply to: dawnstar


the dems didn't have the power in congress to being any bill to the floor for a vote... the republicans hold the power in the senate!!! they decided not to bring it to the floor. so, how is it that it's the dems fault again???

Under present Senate rules, neither party can force a vote without 60 Senators agreeing to do so. It's called 'cloture.' Personally, I think that's a good thing; it prevents either party from taking over completely with a slim majority.

The Republicans only held at most a 2-vote majority, far short of the 60 votes required for cloture. That is not a ruling majority. The Democrats can, and have, prevented bills from coming to a vote using the cloture rule.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 09:09 AM
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originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: dragonridr

Now Trumps best option here don't play let the government shut down. Because no matter the outcome he will catch the blame. So if hes going to take the heat he might as well get what he wants.


Bingo. that is the entire point.



The biggest point is that trump should revisit his tweets about the shutdown during Obama's tenure as president and take his own advices...

Besides there has never been a shutdown with a majority house and Senate... this is the first time a shutdown occurred with a bright red maga government and a vice president with the power to tip any bills in his favor as final vote. ...








"A shutdown falls on the President's lack of leadership. He can't even control his party and get people together in a room. A shutdown means the President is weak."
~Donald Trump, 2013#TrumpShutdown




I have a feeling goalposts will be moved shortly
edit on 28-12-2018 by odzeandennz because: (no reason given)




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