Democrats should embrace Ocasio's "Green New Deal" Marshal Plan type proposal

O.K., yea, there was another thread about a "Green New Deal" but it appears to have been about something proposed by the Green Party and it was an interesting thread.

The newly proposed "Green New Deal" as set forth by our favorite new Democrat Socialist Alexandria Cortez-Ocasio is something altogether different and it appears to be garnering quite a bit of enthusiasm on Capitol Hill.

First, you will want to actually read and review the proposal itself and you'll find that at:
docs.google.com...

Yes people of ATS, the ACTUAL document itself. Reading through it you'll find the meat of the proposal:

Dramatically expand existing renewable power sources and deploy new production capacity with the goal of meeting 100% of national power demand through renewable sources;
(i) building a national, energy-efficient, “smart” grid;
(ii) upgrading every residential and industrial building for state-of-the-art energy efficiency, comfort and safety;
(iii) eliminating greenhouse gas emissions from the manufacturing, agricultural and other industries, including by investing in local-scale agriculture in communities across the country;
(iv)eliminating greenhouse gas emissions from, repairing and improving transportation and other infrastructure, and upgrading water infrastructure to ensure universal access to clean water;
(v) funding massive investment in the drawdown of greenhouse gases;
(vi) making “green” technology, industry, expertise, products and services a major export of the United States, with the aim of becoming the undisputed international leader in helping other countries transition to completely greenhouse gas neutral economies and bringing about a global Green New Deal.

There's quite a bit more:

(B) The Plan for a Green New Deal (and the draft legislation) shall recognize that a national, industrial, economic mobilization of this scope and scale is a historic opportunity to virtually eliminate poverty in the United States and to make prosperity, wealth and economic security available to everyone participating in the transformation. In furtherance of the foregoing, the Plan (and the draft legislation) shall:

provide all members of our society, across all regions and all communities, the opportunity, training and education to be a full and equal participant in the transition, including through a job guarantee program to assure a living wage job to every person who wants one;

diversify local and regional economies, with a particular focus on communities where the fossil fuel industry holds significant control over the labor market, to ensure workers have the necessary tools, opportunities, and economic assistance to succeed during the energy transition;

require strong enforcement of labor, workplace safety, and wage standards that recognize the rights of workers to organize and unionize free of coercion,

I find all of that quite interesting as this proposal obviously aims toward massive worker re-education and training for the new Green economy and the build out of all that infrastructure.

It is said the plan is remarkably popular: www.salon.com...

It’s not just that drastic action is needed. The basic idea of a New Green Deal is wildly popular. There was 70 percent support for “Green New Deal — Millions Of Clean-Energy Jobs” in the “Big Ideas” poll commissioned by the Progressive Change Institute in January 2015. This year, Data for Progress advanced its own, more detailed Green New Deal Plan, with polling showing related political appeal: In Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin — key to Trump’s 2016 election — voters were more, rather than less, likely to support a candidate "who supports moving the United States to 100 percent renewable energy by 2030" by 32, 27 and 26 points, respectively.

Let me say this. While its easy to dismiss Ocasio's proposal, it is quite obvious that this proposal erupts upon the scene as an "off the shelf" proposal, probably not entirely much of Ocasio's making. I'd guess that Ocasio was presented with this, tweaked it, and then set it off as the designated champion of the idea.

Scroll down to the FAQ section of the proposal and you'll find links to previous proposals along the same line from previous years.
www.markey.senate.gov...

As the Dems set their eyes on POTUS 2020 and now control the House of Representatives, it might not be too far fetched to believe this little gem might just grow some legs!

Oh, and don't forget to ponder this bit, i.e., how to pay for this.

How will the government pay for these investments? Many will say, “Massive government investment! How in the world can we pay for this?”
The answer is: in the same ways that we paid for the 2008 bank bailout and extended quantitative easing programs, the same ways we paid for World War II and many other wars. The Federal Reserve can extend credit to power these projects and investments, new public banks can be created (as in WWII) to extend credit and a combination of various taxation tools (including taxes on carbon and other emissions and progressive wealth taxes) can be employed.

In addition to traditional debt tools, there is also a space for the government to take an equity role in projects, as several government and government-affiliated institutions already do.

So...........the government can take an equity role in these projects? An equity role in the remodeling of your house for energy efficiency, comfort and safety?

Think about that folks. What's not to like?

a reply to: TonyS

So, same as FDR's New Deal, this Green New Deal is little more than a power grab by the central bank wrapped up in the auspices of phantom benefits to the People? No thanks. AOC can roll this plan into a tight cylinder and shove it.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

AOC can roll this plan into a tight cylinder and shove it.

I call dibs if she needs help.

But seriously, this is far too ambitious, and probably a reason Bernie & CO wouldn't get behind her even though she claims to be in that camp of the Democrats.

She just doesn't have the experience, wherewithal, or vision to carry out any of her big promises.

Definitely sounds like we'd be on the hook to the central bank even more so than we are now.

No thanks. These ideas are great, but they would have to start at a local level and be run by local governments and citizens that want it to work.

originally posted by: eXia7
Definitely sounds like we'd be on the hook to the central bank even more so than we are now.

No thanks. These ideas are great, but they would have to start at a local level and be run by local governments and citizens that want it to work.

That's just it though. It can't work! They want to instantly remove any use of fossil fuels to save the planet. This isn't about saving the planet and those who think it is are delusional. Look at Solyndra and the aftermath of that government sponsored debacle.


For the greenies to prove this is a viable plan, lets see them take a city in California with a large population and MAKE IT WORK! No they won't do that because they know it, at this point is impossible. IMO this if allowed to take hold as law would mean millions of deaths. Notice how they even want to mess with our food supply by including agriculture? Why is there no concern of the poisons used in our agricultural production? You know our food supply?


This is a facetious, Marxist power grab.


Like I mentioned, let them make over 1 just 1 city to prove to the rest of us their idea works. I'll wait......

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
I call dibs if she needs help.

Have at it. Never stick your tightly rolled plans in crazy.

a reply to: TonyS



blech '(including taxes on carbon and other emissions and progressive wealth taxes) '

No one has even proven that human carbon output is affecting the environment in regards to global warming etc but here we go with taxes. screw this.
I am actually for some socialist programs, like some government control of corporations as long as they make the general population and nation state stronger, as well as some form of government health care at least a percentage of aid, but this # is too much. And I am currently a member of the republithug party as my friend says.
I have read it here, that democrats are so far left now they are making republicans look center left.

a reply to: chris_stibrany

I have read it here, that democrats are so far left now they are making republicans look center left.

LOL, there's a lot of truth in that.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Yea, it much resembles the FDR "New Deal". If I read it correctly, what it really amounts to raising vast sums of money to spend vast sums of money on huge infrastructure build out and upgrade. And of course, I'd guess it will have some power grab components to it as well.

Two of the proposals are very interesting to me:
1) building a national, energy-efficient, “smart” grid; and
2) ) making “green” technology, industry, expertise, products and services a major export of the United States, with the aim of becoming the undisputed international leader in helping other countries transition to completely greenhouse gas neutral economies and bringing about a global Green New Deal.

I guess, as I muse over this, it occurs to me that you can dodge the future for only so long.

originally posted by: TonyS
I guess, as I muse over this, it occurs to me that you can dodge the future for only so long.

The future is what we decide it will be, so if you have enough people looking to "dodge" this vision of the future, it won't come to pass and the future will actually turn out quite differently. There is no such thing as fate. So no, we are not fated for this ridiculous future vision that is largely based on unicorn farts and lies.

Also, the integrated "smart" grid idea for the USA is foolish. The DHS just published a report identifying America's power grid as a massive target for terror attacks. So long as that grid has redundancies while also having each major sector of the grid laid out as such that they can be isolated from the rest of the country's power grid in case of an attack, we will be OK nationally. The moment they all get tied together, however, when some asshat in DC can flip a switch and control or even monitor the power grid and usage in, say, Los Angeles, we have created our own doom.

Sounds expensive. Also, CO2 is good for plants & makes the world greener. This is not a new idea, Obama tried it, remember Solyndra. If all these corrupt career politicians were serious about stopping all CO2 emmisions, they would 1st call for the ban of freighter ships & jet airplanes from traveling. They would also ask people to only buy goods manufactured domestically & preferably locally. Democrats are such hypocrites.

www.dividedstates.com...

a reply to: TonyS


Also I might add, how many people who live in California for instance are being penalized by these same politicians for creating their own solar energy???


Quite a few! People who seem to want to go green voluntarily seem to be ostracized and fined by these same politicians promoting what they are fining people for doing on their own dime!


Hypocrites!

(ii) upgrading every residential and industrial building for state-of-the-art energy efficiency, comfort and safety; 

....

The Plan for a Green New Deal (and the draft legislation) shall recognize that a national, industrial, economic mobilization of this scope and scale is a historic opportunity to virtually eliminate poverty in the United States and to make prosperity, wealth and economic security available to everyone participating in the transformation.

Sounds like the normal MO in Washington to redistribute middle class wealth to the upper and lower classes.

Like they are trying to do in my neck of the woods. Talking about requiring all homes to upgrade to a $30,000 septic system in order to hopefully (they can't prove that it actually works) reduce the amount of nitrates leaching into the water.

If your in the lower classes they will pay for your system ... you are now 30k welthyer.

If you are in the upper classes you own the companions that manufacture and install these new 30k systems that you can't prove even work.

If your in the middle classes you pay for the system out of pocket and so are now 30k less wethly than you where (a significant portion of your already depressed housing equity... assuming you have any at all)


... but I'm hope I'm wrong and their plan really will be the tide that lifts all boats ... I just doubt it.

At this point I really think that the states should just become independent nations.
Let's see which new country works the best.
Too many major cultural differences between Staten Island and Brooklyn, between East Coast and Mid West, Between West Coast and Upper Peninsula, Between Florida and South Dakota, Memphis and Cookeville. Too many major differences.

provide all members of our society, across all regions and all communities, the opportunity, training and education to be a full and equal participant in the transition, including through a job guarantee program to assure a living wage job to every person who wants one;

It would not be possible to raise taxes high enough to put a dent in what that would cost. The bottom 50% would have to be heavily taxed to even come close. The middle class would have to be hit so hard, it would bring them to their economic knees and even taxing the top 5% a 100% would not make a difference.

We are talking Cuba here.

I'm beginning to think Cortez-Ocasio is a sacrificial lamb. An illiterate the party will use to push forward radical idea's to sucker in a couple more percent of the vote, knowing full well the idea's are false promises that could never be paid for. An expendable rookie in the room to keep the microscope off of the real party players.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
It would not be possible to raise taxes high enough to put a dent in what that would cost. The bottom 50% would have to be heavily taxed to even come close. The middle class would have to be hit so hard, it would bring them to their economic knees and even taxing the top 5% a 100% would not make a difference.

Socialism! It's not like she or Sanders or many of the left's new blood have tried to hide their adoration and worship of socialism lately. What you're stating here is what they want to happen, same as it has happened in every socialist nation on Earth.

While it may not be feasible... trump supporters just want to build a wall... Think about that for a second....

It is typical Democrat BS.

It all sounds great, but no way it can be paid for or implemented. The details are always where these things start to suck especially when you see all of the new mandatory compliance requirements and freedoms we would lose along the way.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Socialism! It's not like she or Sanders or many of the left's new blood have tried to hide their adoration and worship of socialism lately.

Nor has trump lacked his admiration of dictators. You should have included that in your admonishment of them... unless you are ok with that.

originally posted by: tinner07
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Socialism! It's not like she or Sanders or many of the left's new blood have tried to hide their adoration and worship of socialism lately.

Nor has trump lacked his admiration of dictators. You should have included that in your admonishment of them... unless you are ok with that.

You must be triggered. You have yet to address the topic.


So enlighten us on how this idea will work. I laid out my ideas why they won't so let's hear your ideas on how they will?