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Homelessness and San Francisco.

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posted on Dec, 27 2018 @ 11:51 AM
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originally posted by: markovian

originally posted by: mobiusmale

originally posted by: markovian

originally posted by: mobiusmale
a reply to: generik

Come on seriously...actually deal with the problem, and recognize that a significant percentage of these people actually need medical treatment of some kind, not handouts - instead of taxing the rest of the population, so that the problem can just continue on and grow?

In my neck of the woods, it is still illegal to sell, buy or possess substances like heroin. However, if you are clever enough or lucky enough to avoid detection by one arm of the City Government (known as the Police) while acquiring such illegal substances, then another arm of the City will provide you with a safe space to inject yourself...and will even provide you with free needles (wouldn't want you to spread infections to other addicts, while you are slowly killing yourself in your safe space).

Of course, the City doesn't pay for the drugs (not yet anyway), so after safely injecting themselves, the coddled addicts are then free to leave and go about begging or stealing what they need so that they can buy more poison for themselves.

Does this seem sane to anyone?


i agree with thease programs

not for the homeless or any bs like that

but it dose make less dirty needles found in the streets witch lead to innocent people getting infected

id rather see them do seriouse jail time for leaving dirty needles in the street but thats probly hard to do


Okay, so we'll just check the "enabler" box beside your name.

These people need help to beat their addictions - not help to continue to feed their addictions; and all of the secondary crime and decay that results from that continuation.

Maybe we should provide free electric cars (or scooters) to bank robbers, so that they don't hurt other people by contributing to global warming, as they speed away from their crime scenes in a gas-guzzler. Naw...that would be crazy.



hope you get aids you certanly deserve it


Kind of defeats your entire argument.




posted on Dec, 27 2018 @ 12:01 PM
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a reply to: JinMI

fair point i sopose

tho this is kinda the spot on ats where u degrade people and make insults to prove your point

i just wanted to fit in




posted on Dec, 27 2018 @ 12:09 PM
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originally posted by: generik

originally posted by: soundguy
I just read this article and thought it would make an interesting topic of discussion.

www.cnn.com...

I’m not really sure where compassion should begin and end. But I don’t beleive public health matters should be ignored. And where exactly is the money coming from that allows these people to shoot up multiple times per day? That kinda baffles me.

Eventually the tax they mention will end up trickling down to those of us who buy products and services from the companies located there.




you don't understand the economics of homelessness. you ask where they get the money for their drugs. the answer is quite simple. the sad fact is that many homeless actually earn more in a day then most of us even dream about. i knew one person in particular who made over $300/DAY panhandling. and he was not even one of the more aggressive ones. and most of that money goes for their drugs. they have no rent to pay. no electricity or other bills to pay. they don't generally pay taxes on their earnings. and they even get a fair amount of things like food and clothing free. as so many people are more than willing to help these poor people. and it's no great shock they like to be in the same place as places like home to the headquarters of Uber, Twitter and Salesforce. since they are likely to earn more money in those types of areas than other areas.

i did find it rather amusing a person that is an enabler of this is trying to "find help" for them. he is a big part of the problem. if you want to get rid of the problem, you can't be an enabler in the problem. every single person who gives them money (even if only a quarter). every person who gives them food, especially something like a restaurant giving them leftovers. anyone who gives them clothing, or anything else is actually making the problem worse through their misguided charity and compassion. even this homeless tax is likely just another misguided attempt to get rid of the problem, but will only make it worse. the only real way to deal with such an issue is to cut them completely off. DO NOT give them any money. DO NOT give them free food. DO NOT give them clothing, or any thing else. in fact the most that should be done is to put them in rehab and/or mental institutions to give them the help they need to overcome their addictions, and any mental issues that can be fixed. in fact they should be going to their camps and bringing them in for treatment. any that they see panhandling or begging, or anything else should be taken in. no warnings, just take them right off the street, and brought to where they can be helped. another idea would be to also make it a ticketable offense to give them things like money, food or anything else. and if they persist in doing so, then have them face criminal charges for doing so. since those kind hearted people are a big part of the problem. and without them the problem can not easily persist, since they are the ones that are enabling them to live as they are.


You are so out of touch with reality and your plan is insane.

Once you cut them off most of them will take. If you resist, enjoy being knifed. If you think you're super awesome and can win the battle and defeat all muggers, well at least have sympathy on grandma who will now be targeted by all those street bums who went from begging to just taking now.

You think these people care about jail? Hahahhaah. They only know jail man. Get a grip!

A little bit of charity right now keeps them from becoming real monsters. Our society needs charity for a reason.

Rome was sacked because they lost the balance between giving and taking and when push comes to shove you'll think twice about all this stuff.

Your desires to make it illegal to even give someone food and start punishing Christians as criminals for doing their duty is wicked evil stuff man. Wtf you posted some sick #



posted on Dec, 27 2018 @ 12:14 PM
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a reply to: muzzleflash


A little bit of charity right now keeps them from becoming real monsters. Our society needs charity for a reason.


This is a very slippery and dangerous slope. It's like dealing with terrorists.

Plus it's not addressing the problem at all.

I'm not saying I have the answers but recognizing a losing battle is a boon.
edit on 27-12-2018 by JinMI because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-12-2018 by JinMI because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2018 @ 12:17 PM
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a reply to: mobiusmale


i must admit i'm rather torn on the idea of safe injection sites. you are correct, they certainly don't help the drug problem. yet on the other hand the whole idea is to try and keep the transmittable diseses down. diseses which not only make them a further burden on society, but also pose a danger to everyone else arround them. including those who would be required to help them. makes it a bit of a cunumdrum.

however i think if we really want to look at things and fix the drug problem the reality is that we need to deal with the reasons people want to escape with things like drugs. the WHY of them wanting to get high, and stay high as much as they can. and drugs are not the only issue involvolved that stems from the same basic issues.

it is also true that many if not most of the homeless need medical help, especially mental help. and the saddest part is that at one time we did in fact try to help them. but then people, especiaially people of a more liberal bent like many democrats, all full of compassion and wanting to help them, decided that that help was wrong, and that those people being helped needed to be freed from their opressors. in fact i know that in one city i lived in those people freed from the opresive metal istitutions, never even left the area once they were freed. in fact many of them that are left still live homeless even sleeping on the grounds of their former institution.

now i will admit that mental institutions have had a very bad name which was pretty much rightfully earned. of course it's not that they were being to be cruel (at least in most cases). the problem being that they had even less of an idea of what was going on and treating it than we do today. and in all honesty is this sticking people on mind altering chemicals even better than what they did back even in some of the worst days of institutions? we locked people up in "mad houses" then. today we just lock them up and imprison them in their own minds. but at least then they had people that were supposed to be dedicating to at least trying to help them and caring for them. where now they are left to their own devices and definately not being cared for. which i personally think is the more cruel of the two in the end. but misguided "compasion", and wanting to "help" people made things worse with their good intentions. just as they are making the whole homeless problem worse with their misguided compassion and good intentions.



posted on Dec, 27 2018 @ 12:26 PM
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edit on 27-12-2018 by JinMI because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2018 @ 12:30 PM
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originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: muzzleflash


A little bit of charity right now keeps them from becoming real monsters. Our society needs charity for a reason.


This is a very slippery and dangerous slope. It's like dealing with terrorists.

Plus it's not addressing the problem at all.

I'm not saying I have the answers but recognizing a looking battle is a boon.


I believe the way to solve this entire social disaster is to legalize all contraband substances and in fact just give it away for free. Then they won't have to steal or beg to get high. By choosing where to distribute it carefully you can exercise a little control over the logistical and economic situation.

We need to make a lot of changes to various bodies of legislation and also a complete rethinking of our foreign policy because the drug war is intimately interwoven within it.

Everyone keeps thinking that free legal drugs will somehow make people do drugs but cmon man right now tons of ppl are on all sorts of stuff and need to rob you to afford another high. This is dumb.

Giving it free would solve the problem.
Next we can target eliminating the practice of digging through ashtrays for cigs.
Maybe instead of wasting all that $$$ on anti-smoking commercials we can have them just give free cigs to the homeless lol.

We can't make good jobs fast enough to meet the population explosions and the robots aren't here in enough numbers yet to carry all the extra weight. So the next 20 years will be full of workers revolutions and mass street crime rates and theft, everything.

We are in for a hell of a ride.
Just hope and pray the robots will carry the dead weight sooner rather than later. It's the only way to save the economy in the long run. Capitalism vs socialism won't even be the paradigm because robots are a massive game changer and can eventually produce mass goods for almost no cost.

Meaning almost all goods will be near free and everyone will experience true economic freedom and be able to pursue their life's dreams. This will create a Renaissance of technological and cultural development because most of us will desire to do sophisticated things to contribute to the advancement of mankind.

That is a completely different paradigm but we will need to start realizing the shift is coming and the way we think and do things now is already obsolete and on the way out. 2050 will be a completely different world.



posted on Dec, 27 2018 @ 12:38 PM
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a reply to: muzzleflash

I don't see the future going down that way, suffice to say.

Giving into the demands of a diseased mind is the issue at hand, on a few different fronts.



posted on Dec, 27 2018 @ 12:45 PM
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originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: muzzleflash

I don't see the future going down that way, suffice to say.

Giving into the demands of a diseased mind is the issue at hand, on a few different fronts.


I know your visions are clouded by modern politics. It's unavoidable to an extent.

But our masters that own 95% of the real property aren't very concerned with who writes the laws, they are concerned with economics and administrative functions.

Running a civilization smoothly is a delicate matter, and politics for the masses is more of a placebo that placates their riotous natures. It allows the economic/administrative powers to puppeteer.

You don't really believe our opinions matter do you?



posted on Dec, 27 2018 @ 12:51 PM
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a reply to: muzzleflash

Ah, we do agree on some level!

So going by your assertion of elitist society, how can that rationalize with your prediction of the coming society?

On topic; how can someone participate in either with a monkey on their back in a self sustainable way?



posted on Dec, 27 2018 @ 12:54 PM
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a reply to: JinMI

Brave New World by Huxley is fairly accurate in a few ways I think.
Much moreso than 1984.

But we have a lot of other "visions" of the future dystopia which mix in a lot of elements from both extremes.

What I'm worried about is "Civil Rights" in the future paradigm.
Will we have any at all? A few? A lot?

I certainly hope we err on the side of Liberty.



posted on Dec, 27 2018 @ 12:58 PM
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a reply to: muzzleflash

Second time this week that books has been recommended. The universe is trying to tell me something methinks.

Are you of the opinion that civil rights are getting better or worse? Nationally? Globally?

Now I don't think that anyone should have control of what one does with their own body. However, it's a choice, and on a societal level, they need to deal with those choices, like we all do.



posted on Dec, 27 2018 @ 01:02 PM
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a reply to: JinMI

I think we are going 1 step forward 1 step back.

Like currently we have serious free speech problems due to the sjw PC-police bs.
Also there are already too many restrictions on firearms. We need less.

But when it comes to other things we are doing ok.
We made tons of progress in legalization of mj.
That right there is a huge step forward.

So I think it's 50/50 currently.
We are sorta stuck in limbo now.

911 was a huge setback.



posted on Dec, 27 2018 @ 01:07 PM
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a reply to: muzzleflash

Seeing it separated is almost indicative of an agenda. Some rights gained, others lost. Liberty as a whole suffers.

The things that remain the same or stagnant: wages vs inflation, debt (the existence of), currency manipulation ETC.



posted on Dec, 27 2018 @ 01:07 PM
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a reply to: JinMI

A topic I'd recommend is "demonitization of society".

Basically as technology advances it gets cheaper, and so everything from the cost of food to fuel and transport gets cheaper and cheaper.

It is pretty much a law of economics that if left alone, the economy would develop this direction. Increased production decreased cost. By 2050 everyone should be able to reach economic freedom. 2075 at the latest.

Keep in mind that technology is developing faster and this becomes cumulative in terms of it's impact on the economy.



posted on Dec, 27 2018 @ 01:10 PM
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a reply to: muzzleflash

its a trade they will give us "freedome" in exchange for some "privacy"

or atleast thats what they are trying to sell us



posted on Dec, 27 2018 @ 01:10 PM
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a reply to: JinMI

I think one of the most important rights we maintain currently is the ability to communicate openly with anyone via the web.

This really opens the world to us and allows us to meet people from anywhere and find out what's going on in their neck of the woods first hand.

This right seems critical to ensuring we have a liberty-oriented future.

The trends of censorship on the internet are troubling to say the least.



posted on Dec, 27 2018 @ 01:13 PM
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a reply to: muzzleflash

I don't think the creators, acquirers, maintainers or producers of those robots would allow that.

You're talking of giving away the keys to the next boom of humanity. Call me cynical.



posted on Dec, 27 2018 @ 01:14 PM
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Democrats, Republicans, Capitalism... all these are too blame, I find it amusing the rightists who come here morally posturing that the fault is the Democrats only, and Republican-controlled places don't have these problems

the problems are there are countless unoccupied buildings, there are countless amounts of food that gets wasted every second at Markets, Restaurants etc

people would rather let buildings crumble and Food waste

these are the fault of ALL political parties, and ALL Economic systems



posted on Dec, 27 2018 @ 01:15 PM
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a reply to: muzzleflash

I would agree. The free exchange of ideas is paramount to a free society.







 
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