It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
originally posted by: GraffikPleasure
originally posted by: a325nt
1. We already reallocate money by tax and spend. UBI is basically a simplification of an existing system.
2. Money isn't like any of those things you listed. Money can and is created out of nothing on a continual basis.
Hence why we have this problem... Let's add to it right? Oh. You were trying to fix it using socialism....NVM
originally posted by: Propagandalf
a reply to: dfnj2015
Poverty is not rising. Poverty is decreasing world-wide. We’ve reduced extreme poverty in half over the last 30 years, and it could be eradicated in our life-time.
The government needs to force employers to pay a proper rate of pay rather than low rates, the shortfall of which is then picked up by the government by way of low income benefits. In effect the government is subsidising private companies profit capability.
originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: dfnj2015
Won't work.
Nice idea, but it simply won't work.
There are 300,000,000 people in the US. Most seem to think that $30,000 per year is the 'minimum' livable wage, based on recent calls for $15 an hour. That's $9,000,000,000,000 (9 trillion dollars) per year if everyone was on it. Now, consider that the entire US budget is hovering somewhere a little less than half that, meaning taxes would have to triple (and actually more, because only tripling taxes would also triple the deficit). That assumes, of course, that we are going to provide this basic income to everyone regardless of whether they have a job or not.
What will that do to the economy? Well, there will be some who simply live off the basic income and don't want a job. That means less workers in the job market, and that means less work getting done. So the result is that there will be less goods available, but more people with money wanting those goods... which is the exact definition of inflation: too much money chasing too few goods.
So how do we combat inflation? Well, we can't require more people to work, of course, since that is antithetical to the basic idea of a basic income. We can't very well force companies to make more goods, with the labor force shrinking. not to mention the headaches that little proposal would come with. So the only thing left is to accept the inflation and raise the basic income to compensate... which means more money chasing the same number of goods, which means more inflation, which means a raise in the basic income, which means more money chasing the same number of goods, which means higher inflation, which means... you get the idea.
Now, where is that $9 trillion (and more, considering the above) going to come from? Well, it's obvious you want to tax the rich. They really don't need all that money after all. But then what happens when they want that much money? Too bad for them? No, not really.... they'll just move. They'll go to some country where they can have all that extra money. Of course, we could still tax their businesses... unless those businesses moved off shore as well. Then we have even less jobs available, so more people needing that basic income, and we just lost a big chunk of the money we were counting on to pay for it.
So what if we were to only provide that basic income to those who make less? Well, one thing it would do is cause a severe shortage of lower-class jobs. After all, who is going to work for $30k/year when they can make $30k/year sitting in their recliner all day watching Oprah and Dr. Phil? No one. So the only jobs that anyone will do will be the higher paying jobs, and that means automation will be forced into the market much faster. And we still have the issue of who is going to pay for all this.
I understand your thinking; I really do. I would love to see everyone have a basic wage. But the realities of the idea are not conducive with human nature. The end result would be something quite akin to Venezuela. I really don't want to eat zebra.
TheRedneck
originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: dfnj2015
Now, where is that $9 trillion (and more, considering the above) going to come from? Well, it's obvious you want to tax the rich. They really don't need all that money after all. But then what happens when they want that much money? Too bad for them? No, not really.... they'll just move.
originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: CthulhuMythos
The government needs to force employers to pay a proper rate of pay rather than low rates, the shortfall of which is then picked up by the government by way of low income benefits. In effect the government is subsidising private companies profit capability.
Oh, yeah, it's so much better for people to be completely out of work and making nothing at all than working and making less than they 'should.'
Not.
TheRedneck
. Are you suggesting people are just too retarded to meet their own basic needs?
originally posted by: dfnj2015
Over my lifetime we have had HUGE increases in productivity from computers and automation. If as a people we have any chance to possibly pay off the national debt or continue some level of prosperity we need to have Universal Basic Income (UBI). According to studies a billionaire is only capable of spending around 30 million dollars per year. Given the size of the economy there is just not enough billionaires to keep the economy chugging along at a brisk rate. The only solution to keep the economy pumping along is to give people more money to spend.
Here's a really good article on the subject:
An Economic Case for Universal Basic Income
With all the additional money in the economy it ALL comes right back to shareholders who will finance UBI. People with the lowest incomes usually spend 100% of it with zero savings. So it will just come right back to the billionaires.
With automation in high gear the number of workers needed to produce all the Worlds products and services is less and less every year. Yet wages are completely flat and poverty is rising:
All my life the only allowable solution is tax cuts for the rich and trickle down economics. And every time it doesn't work.