Tax avoidance and evasion

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Hell no! It's YOUR money.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
In the UK, tax avoidance is not illegal, but tax evasion is.
A mate of mine sponsors our town rugby club and because it is advertising it is a company expense which can be written off by Her Majesties Revenue and customs lol.
I'm going to do a job for him which won't cost much but I'll invoice much higher so we split the difference and share the love instead of paying tax to HMRC. Work will have been done but not counted in the same way.
Is that ethically wrong?

Ethically wrong? Definitely.

Would you have even been inclined to ask if you, yourself didn’t sense something sketchy about the proposition in the first place?

I’m not familiar with the tax laws in the U.K., but I just retired from more than 20 years of explaining, and enforcing, the tax laws for the state of California here in the US.

I can see a few “red flags” (or do you call them ‘red cards’?) raised by your proposal.

If the job your mate is hiring you to do is connect to his business, invoicing you for more than the job actually costs could result in artificially inflating the overall value of his business, what we refer to as his “basis”. That can have serious consequences with regard to the amount of taxes a company owes (or can deduct), at least here in the states.

It could be prosecutable as fraud.

And if he pockets the overcharged amount without reporting it on the company’s books, that could be charged as embezzlement.

Then again, if he does, dutifully report the extra money as income for the firm, he might be expected to account for the source of that income should his company be audited. Does Her Majesty’s government preform tax audits?

In the states, a tax audit can be a very nasty, invasive, and expensive procedure.

In your proposed scenario, if the “Fair Market Value (FMV)”, which a good auditor will be able to ascertain, of the work done is substantially exceeded by the amount charged, that auditor is going to ask some very tough questions.

I expect it would be about as pleasant an experience as a very deep rectal exam incorporating a very stout caber.

A banking cartel have taken control over money creation and created a debt based system where you pay taxes to pay interest on loans.

This is insanity and all politicians, media, bankers who uphold this system are fascists (people who take political and manufacture control away from the majority of people).

The system is totally evil and creates a insane amount of suffering/injustice and the karma debt that follows is quite insanely high.

The only true measurement of ethical behavior is objective karma measurement. Awareness on action/reaction is how to avoid creating karma (suffering/injustice in other).

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: JBIZZ

You state is more likely to come after you before the feds.
Do you have taxes deducted from your pay?
If so you may have a small fortune socked away waiting for you to claim in the way of refunds.
Or if you are self employed then I guess your safe.
unless you have expenses you cant account for.
If you're avoiding paying taxes they will catch up with you eventually.
GOOD LUCK.

I think they dont issue refunds on anything 4 years and older if i recall correctly. Thats not to say you couldnt write down the losses against a future filing i suppose, since an unpaid refund would not be accounted for as income if you never received it. Though it might trigger some attention if you were to document that you had not received a refund if you were entitled to one, i think receive is the key word there.

And now for my opinion -- the only taxes should be cosumption. People have no idea how much they are taxed anymore because it comes from so many directions.

a reply to: Bhadhidar
Oh it is illegal of course but law and ethics are two different things.
I break laws all the time if I think they are intrusive or I simply disagree with them.
I don't meekly follow the law because it is the law, never have, never will.
I don't think inflated invoices to evade taxes is ethically wrong, just illegal.

It was legal to rape your wife in the UK up until the end 90's, the law is no benchmark of morals and ethics.

originally posted by: schuyler
OP has not been back to explain, but I'm thinking this is not so much about tax avoidance or tax evasion, but about kickbacks on a project. The way OP explained it was that he would inflate an invoice and kick back part of the resulting funds to the originator.

That's not evasion. It's fraud. If a politician was caught doing that we'd all, every one of us, be decrying "corruption" and calling for their heads. But the little guy does it and that's OK. Double standard much?

Oh it's a simple scam to be honest, my mate owns a private company and pays tens of thousands in tax each year. I am self employed and get paid cash mostly so I don't use up my annual tax allowance on paper. I can invoice my mate for say a 5 grand job which he can deduct from his business taxes, pay me, then split the difference in cash.
I have no problem with the ethics of it, it just rips of Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs, me and my mate get £2500 each in cash which the queen would have otherwise got lol.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

people whine that they are being spied on - yet churn out an unending litany of thier own malfeaseance

Lol, I don't think Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs are going to trace my IP address and find me for talking about tax evasion.
I share my neighbour's wifi (pay him half) for starters, and there is no way to prove the job invoiced was not at the right price. The perfect scam mate. Maybe you like paying taxes but I don't, and any scam with mates to reduce what Her Majesty takes is all good in my opinion lol

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

My taxes last year were ridiculous =, to me!

It was my own fault though...I knew the 1099 was coming and just thought that I would/'could make it up and then life happened...

It should be remedied this year and me and the gubment will be "even steven" LOL

Hopefully...only side jobs, this year, have been cash only and under the table and private folks...no businesses.

I don't know if what you do is "ethically" wrong but, it is what you are doing and getting by so likely no worse than a lot of folks in the world (or US).

a reply to: TNMockingbird
Haha yes!
I get paid cash in the overwhelming majority of my work over a year so that is obviously not declared.
As a self employed person the first £11,850 each year is not taxable so if there is no digital payment record to show I can play with that and invoice my mate so we get the tax he would have paid Her Majesty. 11 grand of free cash is a brilliant scam, half each for doing nothing except printing off an invoice.
Ethically no problem, I wasn't born agreeing to pay tax to the biggest gang in town.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

You don't even declare?

What you're doing is disgusting. You only care about yourself.

And having the gall and pride to put your self-admitted 'brilliant scam' online screams volumes.

Her Majesty, my arse.

originally posted by: SlowNail
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

You don't even declare?

What you're doing is disgusting. You only care about yourself.

And having the gall and pride to put your self-admitted 'brilliant scam' online screams volumes.

Her Majesty, my arse.

Tough # mate, I wasn't born to pay taxes, pay them if you like but I am a free man, my money earned is my own, and if I can avoid paying tax then I will.
Unlucky if you are a PAYE employee slave forced to pay tax I don't give a #, that is your choice.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

Oh it's a simple scam to be honest, .

hahahahahah

i really dig your style man

a reply to: TinySickTears
Lol cheers mate
I knew people would be outraged by this thread but I just think of the tax avoidance/evasion by big business and find ways to get a piece of the cake myself as an individual.
Money isn't real anyway, the whole economic model is an accounting scam.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Deliciously naive.

I'm self employed also.

Enjoy it while you can. They'll come for you before you retire. They'll want 5 figures minimum.
It's not pretty.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
In the UK, tax avoidance is not illegal, but tax evasion is.
A mate of mine sponsors our town rugby club and because it is advertising it is a company expense which can be written off by Her Majesties Revenue and customs lol.
I'm going to do a job for him which won't cost much but I'll invoice much higher so we split the difference and share the love instead of paying tax to HMRC. Work will have been done but not counted in the same way.
Is that ethically wrong?

Everything in retail and services always markup the cost of materials and services. So, it is not ethically wrong.

originally posted by: SlowNail
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Deliciously naive.

I'm self employed also.

Enjoy it while you can. They'll come for you before you retire. They'll want 5 figures minimum.
It's not pretty.

Why are you going to ring the hotline and dog him in.

Man it's sad that you feel more obligation to your masters than your fellow pleb, it speaks volumes and I bet to add injury your a MAGA fanatic.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

I really should. However...

Not my style.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: TinySickTears
Lol cheers mate

I knew people would be outraged by this thread but I just think of the tax avoidance/evasion by big business and find ways to get a piece of the cake myself as an individual.
Money isn't real anyway, the whole economic model is an accounting scam.

Hypocrite, what happened to all that talk about paying more into taxes so people can get heath care?

a reply to: SlowNail

I'm pleased to hear that, at least this member in question would help a fellow pleb in a time of need, that much is visible with his postings, the ruling class however would likely just put you out of your misery and count their losses.

originally posted by: Muninn

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: TinySickTears
Lol cheers mate

I knew people would be outraged by this thread but I just think of the tax avoidance/evasion by big business and find ways to get a piece of the cake myself as an individual.
Money isn't real anyway, the whole economic model is an accounting scam.

Hypocrite, what happened to all that talk about paying more into taxes so people can get heath care?

You know you actually have a reasonable point there.

I would argue however that healthcare is only a small part of the budget and a small percentage of people skimming now and again has no real bearing of the completely ballsed up mismanagement the government are implicit in. If the funds were managed honestly and the system ran like a fine tuned machine his skimming would hold much more weight.