The Wall, A Bamboo pole, and Mexico

originally posted by: 727Sky
a reply to: Stupidsecrets

You are totally missing the point. The Mexican border with the USA is 1,954-miles (3,145 km) .. Like I said 219 miles at 5 billion plus dollars ain't nothing if you want to seal the border.

so you're saying the wall will cost $2.5 million per mile? Where do you get those numbers?

originally posted by: Breakthestreak
a reply to: scrounger
It will be deep.
It will be high.
It will be thick.
It will be supplemented with technology. Ground penetrating radar to detect tunnelling. Satellite surveillance. Camera technology.
It will be patrolled.

It will be very, very effective.

NOBODY will be scaling the flucken thing with a bamboo pole.

you are quite right sir

there is one thing that could be added that would also be lower cost vs benefit
lets start making some military bases at the boarder.
despite what people say about the law banning military from law enforcement if one cares to READ ALL THE LAWS the military CAN DEFEND THE BOARDER from those trying to get in and its LEGAL.

those drug dealers, zeta hit teams and smugglers would definitely be deterred if instead of a boarder patrol agent (God bless them for the impossible job they do and protect them) being handcuffed by playing by cop rules they facing a military unit with military gear and limited rules of engagement.

scrounger

originally posted by: scrounger
when it comes to the wall (and other activities to stop illegals from coming in, getting jobs, getting aid, ect)
I am SO SICK AND TIRED OF "IT CAN BE (TUNNELED, CLIMBED, ECT)" EXCUSES

do you have locks on your house?

those can be broken, picked, and otherwise rendered useless.
by your logic dont lock your house because it "can be breached"

do you have a password on your on line banking?
since it can be hacked by your logic do you not have one?

do you have keys for your car?
they can be bypassed and your car hotwired. By your logic do you not have keys for your car?

Hell we have laws against murder, drug dealing, car jacking, child abuse, and rape
because people do these crimes and because some dont get caught and/or dont face justice by the wall logic do we get rid of all laws and punishments?

this blanket logic because someone can / does find a way to defeat the wall FAILS when applied to other things.

NOTHING BUT DEATH IS 100 PERCENT EFFECTIVE

given the logic of anti wall people do they apply it to their houses in regards to locks?
bet not...hence HYPOCRITES


Look the wall IF BUILT RIGHT and maintained correctly wont stop everthing but it will make a SIGNIFICANT difference .
if you do nothing the problem WILL BE WORSE.

Let me end with this.

currently the most modest estimates on what illegal aliens cost the US TAXPAYER is 300 BILLION DOLLARS (probably alot more realistically) .

the wall highest cost estimate is 70 billion with a yearly estimated maintenance of 300 million.

if the wall is ONLY 25 percent effective (LOWEST estimated effective for sake of discussion) the first year savings would be 75 BILLION. that translates into the wall built and 10 YEARS of maintenance with 2 BILLION LEFT OVER.
every year after that is gravy.

now to be fair 25 percent is well below realistic effectiveness. but if the savings are that great at the low number it only gets better from there.

scrounger

You have me confused with someone else if you think I am against a wall or anything else to secure our borders. I am against stupidity when the thinking is that 291 miles of wall will stop all the bad things that come across the 1954 mile length border. We have sensors that can detect and distinguish a turtle fart verses a human; laugh but they can even tell what the human subject probably had for diner.. ..

We have motion sensors and ground sensors that can detect anything that moves within the range they are set for. The military probably has warehouses full of such sensors and they work very well. Area-51 uses some of them and that is why anyone who get close is met by the security guys (they already knew your location and that you were coming). This is not rocket science.... for many things that would be useful are off the shelf items. With these sensors you do not have to confiscate land (imminent domain so forget property rights ?) from those who live on the border or split their land because that is where the wall is going. If you were a land owner where the land had belonged to you and your forefathers for 7 generations how would you feel if the big boys came in and said, "not yours anymore" ?

Take a helicopter ride along the border youtu.be...


Ranchers in Texas want security but do not want their land split or pennies on the dollar for the land.. I suppose pennies are better than an imminent domain declaration ? To secure the border, I mean really secure the border, without harm to American citizens land owning rights not to mention all the wildlife that knows no borders there are better ways that a newly constructed 219 mile wall .. which is but a drop in the bucket for border security..
youtu.be...

a reply to: 727Sky

first my post was directed at ANYONE who claims the wall should not be built because it wont be totally effective.

but your latest posts seems to fall into that category even though your claiming your not .

first you claim you know it wont stop all the bad things from coming in ... which Is the point I made over and over.

but where you go against your claim is by saying sensors do a better job than a physical barrier.

yes what they can do (when they work) is correct
but what you seem to miss is that sensors are limited by amount there is , where they are located, and the biggest limitation if they work as intended all it does is say someone was there at that time. It doesnt stop or even delay them.

its like a burglar alarm..

unless you have someone right there to respond by the time the limited agents get there they can (and if you care to look into it more times than they care to admit) be gone.

A physical barrier backed up by electronics as an alert delays the people long enough to get there to catch them.
with the added benefit alot wont be able to make it in.

Unless your willing to spend a hell of a lot more to have enough agents and a ton of electronics (that alone cost alot for maintenance and more vulnerable to disabling )

then you really go off the rails on using farmers/ranchers as reason not for a wall.

1. farmers/ranchers use FENCES to protect their land/livestock... none use "electronics"
2. the wall will go ON THE BOARDER... so claiming the "land they are on for generations" is in no way gonna be divided by a wall.
3. most land the wall (be current or will go on) and current electronic devices are on GOVERNMENT (be federal or local) BOARDER land . so again the people your using will remain unaffected.
4. right now farmers/ranchers are in great fear due to drug runners, zeta and gang hit squads, kidnappings, shootings , ect. Alot cannot go out even in daylight without someone with them and ARMED. Many will not go out at night.
so to claim that the possibility (as rare as it will be ) they would be in mass against loosing a LITTLE/SMALL part of land for a strong wall is laughable.

lastly I cant seem to find ANYONE or any news story where PRIVATE land goes right up to the boarder... most of the boarder ALREADY has buffer zones...
the only exception is some come very close to CITIES and those are small compared to the wide open unoccupied land.

if it were a city a buyout would be in order.

so overall I am afraid your comments are in direct conflict with the claim you are not against the wall.

Scrounger

a reply to: 727Sky

as for the idea of "wildlife" issues REALLY MAN common

so to protect a deer your willing to allow drug runners, traffickers, gang bangers, kidnappings, ect EASIER ACCESS due to not being a wall ?

smh

Scrounger

a reply to: scrounger

2. the wall will go ON THE BOARDER... so claiming the "land they are on for generations" is in no way gonna be divided by a wall.

You did not watch the second video where one resident was offered 400 for half his house lot nor the guy who sold some of his land for the wall and waited 7 years for payment. People in Texas own the land right up to the Rio Grande river which is the border between Texas and Mexico.. If you lived in Texas you would know this. There is no buffer zone until a wall is built and you are cut off from your land.

I really do not disagree with much of what you said about the sensors etc etc.. However with solar powered sensors many problems with the old battery powered sensors has gone away. Cameras with Night vision in strategic locations hard wired back to a monitoring facility would be all some areas would need if there is a ready response team available. The Border (both DEA and ICE) guard helicopters were very busy when I was around south Texas and their main complaint was being undermanned or having their hands tied from apprehending at certain times..

Now you tell me how is a 291 mile fence going to be effective against 1954 miles of southern border ?

Actually for your information Texas already has about 320 (?) miles of fence in key areas; the building of that fence was the first time I heard stories from land owners thinking they were getting screwed..

Those fence locations are where you hear about some tunnel discovered that is used for human smuggling or the drug trade. The tunnels usually come up under a cartel owned warehouse where everything is out of sight... If you take the time to look just type in "drug tunnel found in" and you will find the tunnels are in every border state and some are quite grand .

The original video I posted in the Op was for entertainment as much as ease of scaling/climbing but seeing how the wall is all the talk now I figured I would throw that bit into the Op. People are very smart about getting from one place to the next if motivated.

Mexico is a hard nut to block from nefarious activities across our border. People complain about the shootings in Chicago and want to blame the shootings on just about everything but the Mexican cartels. www.borderlandbeat.com...

Chapo, agrees to a discount of $5000 per kilo. He also wants a courier to pick up his money in Chicago and says he'll call Pedro back.

The second call comes in a half hour later on the same day. Chapo again mentions, that Chicago is the pickup point and even mentions his courier's name (Lazaro). Then he puts another guy on the line to give Flores Lazaro's number and to set Benjamin as Flores code name.

I will say that Pedro and Margarito are the stars of this trial. They may be the biggest gift ever given to the DEA. Clearly it is their testimony that is impenetrable, because it is not bad guy testimony given on its merit, but a mountain of collaboration and hard evidence to support what they say. In the end they had enough to potentially put away over 4 dozen bad guys. His cooperation included making telephone conversation recordings, multiple ones with Chapo himself. And Other key players.

The Flores twins were born in Chicago, raised in Little Village. La Villita, the two mile slice of Mexico authenticity set within one of the most famous cities in United States.

The twins were born to a housewife and a small time drug dealer.

For years, the Flores twins ran a drug distribution ring out of Chicago that shipped thousands of pounds of narcotics to wholesale customers in New York, Washington, Cincinnati and other cities.

The drug network would put Fedx or UPS to shame as far as their illicit deliveries

Just get serious with the law breakers, gun positions and land mines. We are already using bilingual signs so making the signage isn't a problem.

a reply to: 727Sky

sigh

first I didnt say there may be some land that may be needed.
but it isnt a major issue as your examples showed.

second, a farmer/rancher not being paid is a legal separate issue that has NO RELIANCE to building a wall.
On a side note there is eminent domain and im sorry but boarder security of the US trumps (no pun intended) a few land owners.

third.. the example you gave you seemed to miss a critical point or twist the facts (maybe not you but the article...IDK) is the fence goes ON THE BOARDER.
your not cutting someone property or denying access but using PART OF IT.
they are not gonna have "the wall" and a strip of land for the owner on the other side

fourth...
the amount of wall is FIRST STAGE, where current high use is , and based on asked for funds...
the OVERALL PLAN is to build a wall all along the boarder except were natural barriers will accompish the same thing. those to be evaluated as needed.

now you (sadly) show your being hypocritical with claiming your not against the wall is this quote ....

"Those fence locations are where you hear about some tunnel discovered that is used for human smuggling or the drug trade. The tunnels usually come up under a cartel owned warehouse where everything is out of sight... If you take the time to look just type in "drug tunnel found in" and you will find the tunnels are in every border state and some are quite grand .

The original video I posted in the Op was for entertainment as much as ease of scaling/climbing but seeing how the wall is all the talk now I figured I would throw that bit into the Op. People are very smart about getting from one place to the next if motivated. "

NO ONE IS DENYING that ANY WALL, LOCK, PASSWORD, OR SECURITY MEASURE is foolproof and SOME will find way to get past it.

but no one on other security areas (locks, passwords, ect) applies the logic that because it isnt foolproof you dont implement them , just when it comes to the wall.

hence why its obvious you keep bringing up where the CURRENT ONE is being bypassed by A FEW PEOPLE.

The plan calls for IMPROVING the wall in those areas your video shows ALONG WITH building in new areas.

BTW I bet since we have this video those people were caught and I cant seem to find any government law enforcement facts showing the "bamboo" method is a serious threat.

Again as I stated if the wall is only 25 percent effective (and that is an unrealistic low number by any standards) we not only have it payed off (biggest amount estimates to date for whole project) but 10 years of maintenance out of FIRST YEARS SAVINGS ALONE.

please STOP WITH THE EXCUSES .

the wall (note if made properly as shown) will INCREASE THE SAFETY of the US and save a large part of the 300 BILLION plus illegals cost now.

it is NOT 100 percent effective (NOTHING IS FOR THE 10TH TIME) and other measures also will be needed (deportations, E verify, increased punishments of hiring illegals, STRICT VETTING of those getting all benefits (not just welfare but ex schools, medical) ).

the only thing outside of making sure usual government (doesnt matter what party holds what position) doesnt mismanage the project should be (as MANY HAVE SAID THOUGH VOTING TRUMP IN).....
WHEN NOT IF IT IS TO BE STARTED.

scrounger