Okay kids, do Christian artists HAVE to draw same-sex material

a reply to: Woodcarver

Why would they?

Not even the florist or the baker stopped gays from buying stuff in their respective stores. They only balked when it came to celebrating a marriage.

I say, the christians should take it to court and prove that their god exists and show that their god hates gay people. If they can prove that jesus hates gay people, then we all become christians and leave the gay people outside in the cold.

But...,

If they can’t prove it, they shut the # up and become gay people.

Sounds fair, they should put their faith to the test.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: KansasGirl

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Lumenari

I am a supporter of public accommodation. I got “taught” during the bakery episode.


If you serve the public, then you serve the public.

So every business serves the public?

No, not really. If you have customers by appointment only, or do not offer public access, then you do not need to accomodate the public. Lot’s of businesses work like that. Including mine.

Lets see what DB says, since he's the one claiming that if you have a business you serve the public.

I'm eager to hear what he says about the legal prostitute in Las Vegas and whether or not she is allowed to refuse to "serve" a customer.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Woodcarver

Why would they?

Not even the florist or the baker stopped gays from buying stuff in their respective stores. They only balked when it came to celebrating a marriage.

Again, the devil is in the details. The cake shop would have let the gay couple buy a cake off the shelf, but they didn’t want to decorate a cake for the gay couple.(which i personally don’t see any difference) but these artists don’t have a “shelf”. They produce custom art for the public. That is the only product they make. It’s the same as if they didn’t want to do art for black people. The point is that these demographics are protected with written laws.

If i go in there as an atheist, and ask for a cake, or a drawing, that they do not want to make, they can tell me to # off. There are no laws protecting atheists, or christians for that matter.

originally posted by: KansasGirl

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: KansasGirl

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Lumenari

I am a supporter of public accommodation. I got “taught” during the bakery episode.


If you serve the public, then you serve the public.

So every business serves the public?

No, not really. If you have customers by appointment only, or do not offer public access, then you do not need to accomodate the public. Lot’s of businesses work like that. Including mine.

Lets see what DB says, since he's the one claiming that if you have a business you serve the public.

I'm eager to hear what he says about the legal prostitute in Las Vegas and whether or not she is allowed to refuse to "serve" a customer.

My business does not serve the public. I do not have a storefront, or offices that allows access to the public. All of my business is contractual and by appointment only.

As far as las Vegas prostitution, i’m pretty sure they have their own rules that govern how those transactions take place. They are probably not like other businesses. DB prob knows more than i do about that stuff. I defer to his experience.

a reply to: 3n19m470

It's a human thing.

So is same sex marriage.

a reply to: ketsuko

It's about not wanting to participate in what they feel is sacrilege.

I've heard the argument before.

Where does that line stop?

Indeed. Can a restaurant refuse to serve a gay couple, can a paramedic refuse to offer aid to a homosexual, can a landowner refuse to rent to a homosexual, can a hotel turn away a gay couple?

Under the auspice of religious freedom can a parent sell their child into service, force a daughter to marry a person of their choosing. Where does that line stop?

originally posted by: DBCowboy

For the record, if you serve the public, like any bakery, restaurant, website, you have to factor in public accomodation and serve the public.

In my opinion.

Sexuality is a behavior and so you are suggesting that everyone must accommodate all behaviors.

Amazing to see so many people willing to play such anal rententive games with something as nuanced as liberty and freedom of conscious.

We live in a country full of variety.

When you demand the EAXCT line between accomodtion and personal conscious, you won't protect either.

On the whole, our nation's laws have agreed that pure discrimination is unacceptable. Even with THAT, there is still room for agrument and debate.

If the caligraphers decided that they don't work for black people, we'd all likely find that as bigotry. If the black person wanted them to create caligraphy to promote Farakahn's termite extermination...

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: ketsuko

It's about not wanting to participate in what they feel is sacrilege.

I've heard the argument before.

Where does that line stop?

Indeed. Can a restaurant refuse to serve a gay couple, can a paramedic refuse to offer aid to a homosexual, can a landowner refuse to rent to a homosexual, can a hotel turn away a gay couple?

Under the auspice of religious freedom can a parent sell their child into service, force a daughter to marry a person of their choosing. Where does that line stop?

I'll assume you are asking in good faith. Do a smattering od research and you will see there is case law about all of this. Lot's of it.

How bout a "dont ask, dont tell" kinda thing? Just refuse and they can walk. Otherwise, I see no problem with a business owner running their business as they see fit. If they get a bad rep let them die. This isnt hard.

a reply to: DBCowboy


No matter what you do for a living, you work for it. You have the right to turn down any job offer whether you are a Christian or not. If you don't like water beds and you find out a potential customer owns a water bed, you don't have to take the job. I understand that that doesn't make any business sense, but it is still your right to turn the job down.

Public Accommodation is just something that will infringe upon your freedom to do what you want to do, whether you think it is good or bad.

Pendulum swings both ways,
Soon it may be time,
to duck,
for aggressive gays

originally posted by: LedermanStudio

If the caligraphers decided that they don't work for black people, we'd all likely find that as bigotry. If the black person wanted them to create caligraphy to promote Farakahn's termite extermination...

Being black is not a behavior, or is it?

What we are talking about is everyone must accept all behaviors.... Do you accept all behaviors?

a reply to: LedermanStudio

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: TheRedneck

Agreeing with the plaintiffs and the attorney general, Ekstrom asserted that “no Court has ever held that religiously motivated conduct, expressive or otherwise, trumps state discrimination law in public accommodations.” He also pointed out that Stutzman is not a minister nor is Arlene’s Flowers a religious organization. Likewise, the law does not specifically target her because of her beliefs, but is “neutral and generally applicable” to all people of all beliefs.

Ekstrom agreed that “the State’s compelling interest in combating discrimination in public accommodations is well settled” and is not superseded by an individual’s religious beliefs. As the Supreme Court wrote in the 1982 case United States v. Lee, “When followers of a particular sect enter into commercial activity as a matter of choice, the limits they accept on their own conduct as a matter of conscience and faith are not to be superimposed on the statutory schemes which are binding on others in that activity. Granting an exemption… operates to impose [the follower’s] religious faith on the [person sought to be protected by the law.]”
thinkprogress.org...

UPDATED: State Supreme Court Says Florist Who Refused to Serve Gay Couple Violated Anti-Discrimination Law www.thestranger.com... anti-discrimination-law

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: LedermanStudio

If the caligraphers decided that they don't work for black people, we'd all likely find that as bigotry. If the black person wanted them to create caligraphy to promote Farakahn's termite extermination...

Being black is not a behavior, or is it?

What we are talking about is everyone must accept all behaviors.... Do you accept all behaviors?

Behavior? What's the behavior here, planning a wedding? Looking for a tasteful wedding invitation with pretty calligraphy?

originally posted by: visitedbythem
Pendulum swings both ways,
Soon it may be time,
to duck,
for aggressive gays

How wide does your pendulum swing? Could it be coming for "uppity black" too?

A person asks a job to be done. The business asks what kind of job/specifics. The business politely declines. The customer politely walks away. Why make this hard?

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

originally posted by: visitedbythem
Pendulum swings both ways,
Soon it may be time,
to duck,
for aggressive gays

How wide does your pendulum swing? Could it be coming for "uppity black" too?

Why are you a bigot?

You don't like the fact that I am part black?
Buzz off

If you got the ca$h.

I got the stuff.

I only see green.