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Okay kids, do Christian artists HAVE to draw same-sex material

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posted on Dec, 25 2018 @ 11:05 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

No freedom of religion exists because most of the original people who came to this land came because government was busy telling them what religion they had to be, how they had to believe, jailing and persecuting them for believing the wrong way ... sort of like this.


Isn't that what I said? lol



If you truly believed that government should be absent belief, then government ought not be in the business of defining marriage at all. At most, it should offer legalities to those who can prove they are married in some way, or contracts to two people who are committed to one another or who intend to be committed, but even at that level, it would be defining a marriage since our Muslim friends do not define marriage as a contract of only two persons, one man and one woman, but rather often one man and more than one woman.




I am no longer free to hold my belief on what a marriage is because the government has defined it otherwise regardless of belief and for me to live that belief can very much put me afoul of the law.


I agree that the Government should not be in the marriage business, it is an antiquated system whose purpose is no longer viable. Keep marriage in the church...




posted on Dec, 25 2018 @ 11:30 AM
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a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed


The message that Jesus was trying to portray is rarely upheld, I've only met a few people in my life that I would consider to be real Christians, which is a shame because his message was one worth sharing.

True words... sad that they are, but true words.

I'll remind you, though, that no one is perfect. That is the message that Jesus preached: forgiveness. I know a lot of people try to twist that around to mean Christians should just lie down and be doormats, but hey... they can be forgiven too. Just like people who call themselves Christian despite forgetting the message of Christ.

I once was one of those. I held grudges like a champ. I remember there used to be one banker around these parts who was nothing more, IMO at the time, than a mean old man who seemed to take joy in hurting poor folk. The day he died, I rejoiced, heck, I wanted to throw a party... and now, I look back on that with shame. I understand more now. Despite everything he did during his life, he was as much a child of God as I am... as you are... as we all are. That doesn't excuse him for what he did, but it does mean that I have to forgive him, and I failed on that. My anger with him did not hurt him; it hurt me. Turns out, I needed the forgiveness that I refused to show him. News flash: I'm not perfect either.

That's really what it's all about, after all. How can we live our lives as better people? It's not, and never has been about trying to get other people to live their lives better... that's what laws are for. The Bible is our basis for what "better" is, and that relationship gives us insight on how to apply it correctly.


I was unfortunate to be given a conscience in this world of thugs and thieves, religion has been hijacked and is used for profit and gain and worse an excuse to do vile things , and it's entirely possible this has contaminated my views to the point of blindness.

I find it appropriate that you made that statement on the day we celebrate the birth of Jesus.


God bless you, and God bless us, every one.


TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 25 2018 @ 11:34 AM
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a reply to: Xtrozero


I agree that the Government should not be in the marriage business, it is an antiquated system whose purpose is no longer viable. Keep marriage in the church...

Be careful... I suggested that a few years back when the gay marriage issue was being hotly debated and was told for 5 pages how evil and homophobic I was...

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 25 2018 @ 11:54 AM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck

Be careful... I suggested that a few years back when the gay marriage issue was being hotly debated and was told for 5 pages how evil and homophobic I was...

TheRedneck


Not only that but it is like the most binding contract one could ever make. 50 bucks and a signature is more binding than selling your soul to the devil. I have a good number of young people that work for me who will not get married and will not have kids, as they see both as too expensive, and marriage as complex and Draconian in nature. When you pay lawyers more than your actual net worth because you desire not to be with the same person FOR LIFE one will see how bad it is.

I say have a renewable contract every 5 years that is mainly for power of attorney...



posted on Dec, 25 2018 @ 12:16 PM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

That's the family courts doing that... and something you do NOT want to get me started on!


TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 25 2018 @ 12:19 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy

Two Female Christian Artists Could Be JAILED For Not Creating Art For Same-Sex Weddings


Two female Christian artists in Arizona who refuse to make custom-art for same sex weddings could actually be jailed for sticking to their religious beliefs.
Joanna Duka and Breanna Koski , who own Brush & Nib Studio, make custom artwork using painting, calligraphy and handlettering. They filed suit against the city of Phoenix, as a Phoenix city ordinance threatens them with up to six months and/or a fine of $2,500 each day they refuse to make the artwork. First the women filed in state court to overturn the ordinance, but lost in a court of appeals, prompting them to appeal to the state’s Supreme Court, which said on November 20 it would hear the case.


www.dailywire.com...


Now remember, public accomodation. So I think they do.

But soooooo many leftists here on ATS were good with restaurants not serving conservatives, soooo many are good with Twitter/YouTube/Facebook censoring, I just wonder if the hypocrites will show up and "reee" all over my thread?


For the record, if you serve the public, like any bakery, restaurant, website, you have to factor in public accomodation and serve the public.

In my opinion.


I own a small business. I serve all types. Their money all spends equally the same. If you run a public business, you need to serve that public,regardless of your religious beliefs one way of the other.



posted on Dec, 25 2018 @ 12:28 PM
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originally posted by: soundguy

originally posted by: DBCowboy

Two Female Christian Artists Could Be JAILED For Not Creating Art For Same-Sex Weddings


Two female Christian artists in Arizona who refuse to make custom-art for same sex weddings could actually be jailed for sticking to their religious beliefs.
Joanna Duka and Breanna Koski , who own Brush & Nib Studio, make custom artwork using painting, calligraphy and handlettering. They filed suit against the city of Phoenix, as a Phoenix city ordinance threatens them with up to six months and/or a fine of $2,500 each day they refuse to make the artwork. First the women filed in state court to overturn the ordinance, but lost in a court of appeals, prompting them to appeal to the state’s Supreme Court, which said on November 20 it would hear the case.


www.dailywire.com...


Now remember, public accomodation. So I think they do.

But soooooo many leftists here on ATS were good with restaurants not serving conservatives, soooo many are good with Twitter/YouTube/Facebook censoring, I just wonder if the hypocrites will show up and "reee" all over my thread?


For the record, if you serve the public, like any bakery, restaurant, website, you have to factor in public accomodation and serve the public.

In my opinion.


I own a small business. I serve all types. Their money all spends equally the same. If you run a public business, you need to serve that public,regardless of your religious beliefs one way of the other.



I’m not sure what type of small business you run , but if a customer asked for something promoting pedophilia, or stoning of adulterous women, would you do it ?

Some things are just against people’s moral code, and they should have the freedom to decide what their businesses will do for clients.



posted on Dec, 25 2018 @ 12:37 PM
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...
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edit on 25-12-2018 by Maverick7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 25 2018 @ 01:27 PM
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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: visitedbythem

There's a big difference between protection and projection....


My protection makes use of projection. It shoots projectiles




By the way
Merry Christmas my friend!
edit on 25-12-2018 by visitedbythem because: Add color to spruce it up :-)



posted on Dec, 25 2018 @ 01:44 PM
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originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: visitedbythem

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: ketsuko
What this is about is less about the customers being gay and more about the Christian not wanting to participate personally in a ceremony they feel mocks God.


They knew the law was in place when they set up a business there. They could have chosen to go somewhere else (like move their shop just outside the city limits. Lots of people do that.)

It could be argued that they decided to target the city since this is just a theoretical lawsuit.


Gods laws trump the laws of men. We all have a choice as to which we will follow.
Romans 1:27
Likewise, the men abandoned natural relations with women and burned with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

1 Timothy 1:10
for the sexually immoral, for homosexuals, for slave traders and liars and perjurers, and for anyone else who is averse to sound teaching

Genesis 19:5
They called out to Lot, saying, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Send them out to us so we can have relations with them!"


Okay... you just quoted three fragments of chapters in the Bible (one is instructions in Timothy and is the part where he talks about church practices and church law; one is a letter from Paul that shows he doesn't know much about the history of the Mediterranean, and one is part of the story of Lot. None of these apparently has anything to do with Muslims (very fundamentalist Muslims are against homosexuality and all Muslims count the Old Testament as one of their holy books.)

So, while I'd like to give you some sort of coherent or thoughtful answer, I didn't find a common theme there to address.




Nuff said



posted on Dec, 25 2018 @ 04:54 PM
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Thats a hefty fine to pay just for sticking to you're beliefs. Back in the old days how do you it was for the south african artist Ronald Harrison when he painted black Jesus in 62? people definitely didn't like that and this was in south africa during another dark period of modern history. But that didn't stop him from challenging apartheid while maintaining the same religious beliefs that the dutch South africans follow. like it or not religious instiutions have and still do implement some form of discrimination. I was raised a Catholic but my personal beliefs on religious practices were conflicted so I decided that no denomination was what's best for me. My spirtual path is a personal choice that reflects who I am. However their are whole congregations and preqchers that are lgbtq people and havent lost their faith. even after those same institutions rejected their identity as a person they remain devout Christians. If you respect people who stand up for religious beliefs, then that persons race or sexual orientation should be irrelevant since the god you worship is perfect and the creator of all life. If that's the belief than a person's sexual orientation is God's will, if it wasnt it would've been a commandment. if those artists feel like it's unholy, then their interpretation of scripture is selective, Jesus wasnt selective of who could be saved even the men who killed him could repent and all is forgiven. christianity is a religion of love peace forgiveness and most importantly acceptance which is why Christians get a bad rep the lack of acceptance.



posted on Dec, 25 2018 @ 05:16 PM
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Tolerance is the correct answer. Intolerance is hate and is rooted in a desire to control others, a desire to force others to submit. In the end, its hate and that's what this is all about. One segment of society being so hateful they feel the need to force their own views on everyone else, by using the law to control personal behavior, that poses zero threat to anyone else.

The First Amendment was placed in the number one spot for a reason. Without those freedoms, all other freedoms are in jeopardy.

How hard is it to grasp the concept of live and let live? Apparently it is very hard. If we have devolved to the point that we even need to tell artists what art they must produce, then other freedoms being taken away can't be too far behind. Eventually we will all be hit by it.

The confusion here is transparent. Clearly freedom of speech applies to our own speech, not forcing it on others. It's a concept a child could understand.



posted on Dec, 25 2018 @ 05:20 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Right back at ya, merry Christmas...



posted on Dec, 25 2018 @ 05:21 PM
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a reply to: visitedbythem

Merry Christmas



posted on Dec, 25 2018 @ 05:49 PM
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a reply to: Blaine91555


How hard is it to grasp the concept of live and let live?

We left that a long time ago. Just guessing, I'd say 1973 when this song came out:


"You used to say, live and let live
(oh, yes you did, oh yes you did, oh yes you did)
But this ever-changing world in which we live
Makes you give it a try
To say live and let die...

Live and let die...
"

That's what usually drives the slickers who come out here back into their cities... we believe in live and let live. They don't. Out here nobody cares if someone adds a room onto their house or decides to raise chickens in the yard. Not anyone else's business. Slickers think that adding that room on requires permission from someone and inspections every step of the way, and that raising a few chickens is a health problem and should be regulated.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 25 2018 @ 07:55 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Sheep are much easier to herd than cats.



posted on Dec, 25 2018 @ 08:36 PM
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originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: TheRedneck

Sheep are much easier to herd than cats.


Especially when a population wants free government healthcare and income in exchange for their independence.

Good thing the Bible teaches not to trust in worldly possessions, and the only thing worthy of bowing down to is God.

Our politicians would do well to remember the first should be last and the last should be first.


Or what Jesus said about those that love seats of “honor”.

edit on 25-12-2018 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed



posted on Dec, 26 2018 @ 02:45 PM
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This is what I, some rando, believe. People should be free to have discriminatory policies in who they want to have dealings with. But if one company wants my patronage and another company is telling me they don't want it, it would seem that the more inclusive business owner would get more money that can be leveraged for implementing future successful ideas. Alienating customers that want nothing more than to pay you for your services seems like a bad business move. People shouldn't be prevented from making decisions that I think are stupid. Losing the business they'd make on all the gay cakes is already a punishment.
edit on 12/26/2018 by revswim because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2018 @ 06:04 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

My understanding is that most artists are temperamental bastards at the best of times, kind of going hand in hand with there creative side.

So religious orientations aside, i don't image they will be forced to create nor finish any commisions, should they be otherwise inclined.

edit on 27-12-2018 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2018 @ 07:47 PM
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ca reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

What thread was that you replied to me and told everyone George Washington was an atheist?
I tried to reply but got locked up and lost my place. I would like to reply now





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