The United States and Russia were allies via WW1 and WW2...

Why did this combination disintegrate into a competition and why and what forces caused this post WW2 nemisis?


If we could nationally discuss this... maybe we could usher in a successful nationalistic dream...

While, technically, we were allies, it was a relationship based soley on convenience. The two basic ideologies are incompatible.

On top of that, if you look at it from Stalin's perspective, I'm sure he felt that the Americans, and Brits sat on their hands for two years while he fed 20 million Russians into a wood chipper. To say he had some animosity would be an understatement.

Why did this combination disintegrate into a competition and why and what forces caused this post WW2 nemisis?

There was a very minor, slight, tiny difference in political ideology between the US and the Soviets, and that lead to a small disagreement during WWII on how to handle eastern Europe and the two countries stopped hanging out after that.

a reply to: EternalSolace

ok

1 - tzarist " russia " was the ally to britain and france in WWI . there was a peace deal - google when it happened - the date is important [ in the context of russian // soviet history ] - big clue there

2 - in WWII - the soviets started the war [ from 02 september 1939 ] - as an ally of the nazi regieme

3 any guesses as to why they " changed sides ???? " - hint barbarossa

4 - post war - churchills " an iron curtain " speech = required listen / read - and thjjen study a good explaination of it

the rest = histoory

the above post = deiberatly written to force you to study , evaluate and think

happi research

a reply to: EternalSolace

the answer to your question lies within this video

a reply to: EternalSolace

We're more like frenemies.

We are mostly antagonistic, but better the enemy you know than one you don't.

We are capable of recognizing when another force is a threat to us both, and we can work together long enough to defeat that outside threat. Otherwise, each would prefer to be top dog over the other, but we can't quite muster the power to put the other down. It's sort of like an uneasy coalition of brother lions ruling a pride. Each might like to get rid of the other, but neither wants a new lion or group of lions moving in, so they fight shoulder to shoulder against that.

a reply to: EternalSolace


Remember the old expression,
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

I see the US being far more belligerent towards Russia than vice versa. Look at all the rhetoric the US has thrown at Russia over recent years. The faux outrage over Crimea is one recent example...accompanied by the constant denouncement of Putin.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: EternalSolace

ok

1 - tzarist " russia " was the ally to britain and france in WWI . there was a peace deal - google when it happened - the date is important [ in the context of russian // soviet history ] - big clue there

2 - in WWII - the soviets started the war [ from 02 september 1939 ] - as an ally of the nazi regieme

3 any guesses as to why they " changed sides ???? " - hint barbarossa

4 - post war - churchills " an iron curtain " speech = required listen / read - and thjjen study a good explaination of it

the rest = histoory

the above post = deiberatly written to force you to study , evaluate and think

happi research

Good bullet points forgot all about Churchill's speech.. definitely going to listen to it again first time since high school.

and everything from WWII has its roots in WWI, such a rich complex story its amazing we all dont speak German or Japanese. As both made blunders in strategy and battle plans.



2 good all in one source WWII Robert Leckie Delivered from Evil

originally posted by: midicon

I see the US being far more belligerent towards Russia than vice versa. Look at all the rhetoric the US has thrown at Russia over recent years. The faux outrage over Crimea is one recent example...accompanied by the constant denouncement of Putin.

That's probably true. I think there are still many in both politics, and the military that are stuck in the "cold war" mentality. To them, the only good Russian is a dead Russian.

I get that we (the US) need to protect our global interests, as well we should, but we also tend to stick our noses where it isn't warranted, or wanted.

a reply to: midicon

Do you really think Russia doesn't use the US like we use them?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: midicon

Do you really think Russia doesn't use the US like we use them?

I'm sure they do but the US is more full on and in your face with the rhetoric. Let's face it, always pushing, knowing Russia has no real answer to the USA's military might, other than full on nuclear war.

A history lesson.

The US joined WW1 in April 2017, the Russian revolution started in 2017 and they fell apart and made peace with the Germans. The US participated in military action against the Bolsheviks in support of an alliance against the communists. The US was only engaged with the Russian Empire as a neutral in WW1 and then adversarially against the Bolsheviks.

The US had troubled relations with the Soviet Russians and only in 1933 deigned to recognise them.

WW2 started in 1939 with the Russians allied in a secret pact with Nazi Germany, and then perused belligerent expansionism into Poland, the Baltic states, Finland, Romania et al. When the Russian-Nazi pact turned sour in June 1941 they became an enemy of the main enemy - the Nazis. So when the US finally entered WW2 in late 1941 the Germans were a common foe.

The Western democracies distrusted Russia. This distrust was proven right when the Russians gobbled up and subjugated eastern Europe. The rest, as they say, is history.

you really can not compare the Russians in WW! and ww2. the country was completely different between the two thanks to the German financed and supported communist revolt and takeover towards the end of ww1. done of course to take the heat off of the Germans and the eastern front by taking Russia out of the war.

in ww2 the Russians started off on the side of the Germans in a pact of convenience. the fact is that both the Germans and Russians as well as their leaders did not trust or respect each other. in fact that pact fell apart thanks to that distrust as BOTH countries were building up to go against each other. as well as suspected the other was going to attack, with it just being a matter of when and not if.

you certainly can not say that their was any friendship involved between Russia and the western allies in ww2. in fact the ONLY reason there was an alliance between them at all was due to having a mutual enemy between them. in fact both Russia and the other western allies greatly distrusted each other. in fact that might even be majorly under stating their relationship. both tried to hold secrets from each other. and the sad fact is that the other western allies were generally badly treated if they fell into the clutches of the Russians during the war. not only were they typically imprisoned by the Russians, but many were never returned even after the war. and the Russians would not even let the US and allies build a much needed weather station in the pretty much unused reaches of Russian territory around the Pacific ocean for use against the war against Japan.

in fact at the end of both wars there were those on the western allies side who wanted to continue the wars against Russia. but due to war weariness there would not have been support as people just wanted the wars over with. and the end of ww2 ended up being the start of the cold war as both sides had great animosity towards each other.

a reply to: Mach2

War never changes. The west saved Russia as much as they saved us, we had refined resources, technology and force projection. Russia had men.

We had empires and multiple conflicts, Russia had the Nazis... Mostly.

The cold war? Both sides could've devastated the other. That's why the moment the fighting and looting stopped both sides began modernisation and rearmament. No side wanted to lose, no side wanted to be annihilated. So instead of carving each other up they carved the world up. .

Old theme new rules, the wars of ideology had been running a while already and the old ways of empire were done. I'm overly simplifying things but that's the general observation I've held.

Without Western support Stalin would've been executed, even with our support the Nazi's came damn close to defeating them/him. We've all heard of Hitler's incompetence when it comes to military matters. If the Nazi's got their hands on that much slave labour and the resources it sought from Russian lands it would've been disastrous for the rest of the world. Everyone knew the stakes.

On a side note, Stalin didn't care much for human life it seems, his care didn't extend much to his soldiers or civilians either.

Do you really think Russia doesn't use the US like we use them?

originally posted by: EternalSolace
Why did this combination disintegrate into a competition and why and what forces caused this post WW2 nemisis?


If we could nationally discuss this... maybe we could usher in a successful nationalistic dream...

Because we are always being run by sociopaths who do not give a crap about you and me. All about control and power.

I see leaders and governments like little children having arguments and fights in nursury. Difference is, they will sends thousands of their own country men to fight their pointless wars to keep their masters happy!
And people fall for it every time!

a reply to: EternalSolace

Russia invaded and occupied about 5 countries in the 1930s/40s and had a non aggression treaty with Nazi Germany. Winston Churchill described Russia as "a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma" during a 1939 radio broadcast because it wasn't certain at the time if it would be an enemy or an ally.

There were Soviet secret agents in the US in 1943 spying on the atomic weapons program - look up the Venona Project.

Some ally.

a reply to: EternalSolace

russia wasn't planning on it in WWII