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Why Jordan Peterson is Wrong yet Right

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posted on Dec, 22 2018 @ 05:58 AM
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I deeply respect Jordan Peterson and the work he's done to help people improve their lives, however I've always had a fundamental disagreement with his core message. He talks a lot about the need for order and purpose, how it's important to be tidy and well groomed, to stand up straight, etc. Now he isn't wrong in the fact that these things tend to help you succeed because they make you look more mature, so he's basically giving people the right advice to improve their lives. However on a deeper level I would argue such an approach to life is shallow and ultimately not very fulfilling because it's aimed at impressing others instead of being true to yourself. There is a story from Principia Discordia that always stuck with me:


Before he became a hermit, Zarathud was a young Priest, and took great delight in making fools of his opponents in front of his followers.

One day Zarathud took his students to a pleasant pasture and there he confronted The Sacred Chao while She was contentedly grazing.

"Tell me, you dumb beast." demanded the Priest in his commanding voice, "why don't you do something worthwhile. What is your Purpose in Life, anyway?"

Munching the tasty grass, The Sacred Chao replied "MU".*

Upon hearing this, absolutely nobody was enlightened. Primarily because nobody could understand Chinese.

* "MU" is the Chinese ideogram for NO-THING

principiadiscordia.com...


This argument could easily be interpreted as an excuse for people to do nothing and contribute nothing to society, but I think the moral of this story has more to do with the fact that life shouldn't be about work, the message is you shouldn't do something just because that's what society expects of you. There are many examples of mavericks who have transformed our society, we all know one tech guy who walks around in flip flops and never brushes his hair, yet these people still manage to partake in business meetings or even run entire businesses. Also consider the fact that these types of geniuses rarely have clean and well organized working environments, they usually aren't messy but they also wont obsess over order and neatness.

The point I'm basically trying to convey is that there is no "greater plan" for each of us, we really do create our own purpose and there is nothing wrong with that, it still can still provide just as much purpose. However there is a very real risk of this philosophy being bastardized and taken too far, being used to justify what is clearly terrible behavior, by saying things such as "well morality is simply what you make of it, there is no real meaning or purpose to anything". This is obviously a dangerous way of thinking, and I'm seeing it used by the more extreme liberal groups who see it as a way to justify their morally questionable behavior. A recent video from VICE titled The Satanic Temple's Protest for First Amendment Rights demonstrates this nicely.

The leader of the Satanic Temple, who looks hilariously like a real life villain, says something I find extremely interesting: "They don't have to pretend they believe in things that are simply intellectually insulting today, that they can still have their ethics, their symbols, they can still use this metaphorically to contextualize their lives. I think we'll find a lot of people identifying non-theistically with their religions, I think we're just a little bit ahead of the game", he then explains how Neo-Nazis and KKK members have attempted to derail his agenda. This is precarious logic because a large fraction of Christians already use the bible as more of a metaphorical tool than a factual retelling of historical events.

The difference with Satanists is that they've chosen to attach themselves to the religion with the darkest symbolism. Satanists may claim that they don't really believe in a god, but that's really irrelevant to the underlying point. The VICE video covers their attempt to get their statue placed on the Capitol lawn, a statue of a creepy goat dude being worshiped by children. It's true that morality is subjective, however over time our societies converge on a system of morality, and moreover it's really much less subjective than one may first assume, for example if something appears "creepy" to one person there is a substantial probability it will appear creepy to other people. They know the statue will upset most people yet they push it anyway.

Those people who are drawn to the darker symbology found within Satanism are not necessarily bad people, but they aren't the people we want decorating public spaces or shaping the moral fabric of society. Also it's quite clear a large fraction of Satanists do believe Satan exists, and again that's not necessarily a bad thing from my perspective because I'm agnostic and don't particularly care what people believe. That is precisely why it's highly conceited to believe you're "ahead of the curve" and that it's your job to shatter the belief systems of all religious people so they can see the world like you do, which is impossible because we all have different ways of coping with existence and I see no reason to take that away from people.




posted on Dec, 22 2018 @ 05:58 AM
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At this point some Satanists are probably think "hold on there buddy some Satanists actually believe Satan is the good guy", well that belief system is known as Luciferianism. The narrator states "Even though these activists don't actually believe in a physical Satan, they know that Christians do, and exploiting God-fearing Republicans belief in the Devil is one of their tactics. They harness the power of Satanic imagery and symbolism in dramatic public demonstrations to draw attention to their left-wing causes". Quite frankly I don't see this as a productive approach to achieving anything, and if you think Lucifer is the good guy then what does imagery involving death and demons have to do with anything? I'm reminded of this quote typically attributed to Albert Pike:


Thus, the doctrine of Satanism is heresy; and the true and pure philosophic religion is the belief in Lucifer, the equal of Adonay; but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of Darkness and Evil.


The reason I bring all of this up is because I see a trend in society to disregard all of our long standing traditions and belief systems. It's getting to the point where simple things like saying Merry Christmas is some how insensitive. As I've said I'm not religious, but I'm also not a sad sap who would complain about a holiday based on family and giving, it's irrelevant if it originally started because of a Christian holiday or because corporations wanted a way for people to spend more money. Just enjoy it like every other sane person instead of turning everything into some political controversy. You can't expect people to listen if you're constantly attacking their belief systems and not providing them the same respect.

What I find truly ironic about all this is that liberals who scream about liberty and how morality is subjective, are willing to give up that liberty without a second thought when it comes to "political correctness". We're getting to the point where comedy is becoming truly boring because comedians fear being crucified for saying the wrong thing. The same thing is happening across most forms of media because they fear being insensitive. Why in that situation is it suddenly important to be sensitive, I thought the plan was to be as edgy as possible to upset your opponents? Oh I see, it's only acceptable when you do it, the moment a little joke or meme gets thrown your way it's an organized propaganda campaign right?

As with all things in life, there is a harmonious balance that occurs between order and chaos, and you have to learn to accept both sides of the spectrum. My username is derived from this ideology, we must realize there is a place for laws and governments, but always hold onto our freedom and liberty, never trading it for safety and security even if it does restrain chaos. I cannot help but worry what the future will bring if we continue down this path of big government and censorship. Society isn't being guided by logic and wisdom, it is being guided by emotions and manufactured outrage. Our society and our art is becoming shallow and boring as a result, I for one don't want to live in such a fake thin-skinned world.



posted on Dec, 22 2018 @ 06:52 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

You make some good points but society is already conditioned into certain social paradigms whether we like it or not. Consider the experiment where a guy dressed in a suit suddenly collapsed in a busy street, lots of people stopped to check on him to make sure he was ok. The same guy dressed in a scruffy looking tracksuit does the same thing and everyone just ignores him and walks on by.

What does that tell you about our mostly unconscious behaviour?



posted on Dec, 22 2018 @ 09:32 AM
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originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

You make some good points but society is already conditioned into certain social paradigms whether we like it or not.

I'm not sure I would say it's totally impossible for us to change directions, but there are certainly larger forces at play which no single person can control. But I guess one of the main points I was making is that Christians are having their traditions and belief systems attacked so that makes them feel like the left is treating them unfairly compared to other religions which get shown the utmost respect. They have a right to uphold old traditions they feel are still important, the morality taught by Christianity is not too different from the principles espoused by Peterson. It's about order and structure, following the straight and narrow, and I don't see any fundamental reason why that would be harmful to society. I've always had a dislike for organized religion but we shouldn't act like it's the core reason for all problems with the world and nor should we automatically assume just because something is old it must be outdated and has no relevancy. Likewise, we shouldn't automatically assume all "progress" is a good thing.
edit on 22/12/2018 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2018 @ 10:15 AM
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I know in most occult or ceremonial magick, good or bad, cleanliness is super important, especially your home. Something to do with negative energies of not being clean. From a psychology standpoint it is said if your home or body is cluttered and dirty then that is somewhat a reflection of how unorganized and dirty your mind is, on a subconscious level. Since "magick" deals a lot with psychology and conscious/subconscious areas, I think this is what he is talking about. I am not a magician nor do I practice any magick but I have read a ton about it.
edit on 22-12-2018 by CosmicAwakening because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-12-2018 by CosmicAwakening because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-12-2018 by CosmicAwakening because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2018 @ 10:15 AM
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I am confused by this a bit. But I will take a swing at it. When I first watched Jordan Peterson videos I was definitely on his side. The arguments he had against SJW's were not really brilliant, but a fairly good articulation of common sense and the need for the SJW's to be challenged at every turn for their obvious joke on civilization.

So eventually I felt I needed to look more into him. I bought his 2nd book. I tried reading it. I could not because it was filled with nonsense. Not as much nonsense as anything a SJW would leak into the atmosphere, but still quite a bit. And one thing some of it reminded me of was that he was an establishment dude. He is a professor at a university. The university system is geared these days to lie as much as possible in regards to liberal arts. So therefore I think Mr. Peterson is really just a conflicted soul. In part he had bought into the program, but as a psychologist when he started seeing young people walk around and say that they demand to not be referred to as normie pronoun I think it just sort of broke something in him. He just couldn't go along. And that is a good thing, and maybe he will evolve. But as he evolves he will definitely suffer consequences due to his position in society at this moment.

And if his lobster analogy is to be one of his actual beliefs, I predict he will eventually cave in to the left and not the right. The reason being is that his life is where it is and what it is and his book shows that.

Satanist on the other hand just love to lie for the sake of lying. When they deceive anyone it makes them happy. Whether they believe in Satan or not is pointless. Because they love lying so much they are pretty much useless members to anyone society except their own.



posted on Dec, 22 2018 @ 10:30 AM
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originally posted by: Fools

And one thing some of it reminded me of was that he was an establishment dude.

Yeah exactly, also no two people can agree on everything, there are rare occasions where Peterson says things I think are quite narrow minded, but once again if he's helping people I see no issue with his approach. He is truly a good hearted person doing what he thinks is right, and not at all what the media portrays him to be. Here's a great video I came across a few days ago which demonstrates this point perfectly:



posted on Dec, 22 2018 @ 10:47 AM
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FWIW J. Peterson attended at least 1 CFR meeting.



posted on Dec, 22 2018 @ 11:00 AM
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Not really a fan of Peterson, his message is extremely simple and closed minded when you think about it.
It basically boils down to, everything is about personal responsibility, and we are the way we are because of how we evolved as humans and we shouldn't try to change it. He's very Darwinist to be honest. And he uses his vast vocabulary and well said articulation to almost confuse his audience and people he debates. Does he really need to a exploding thesaurus to get his point across?

His most profound statement I have heard from him was:

"Your rights are my responsibility".

Although this is correct, he still forgets why those rights are in place for people to follow and respect in the first place. It's not just my natural duty to treat you right, it's the societies, as a whole.







 
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