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originally posted by: LordAhriman
I still wanna know what clean coal is.
originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: pteridine
You're getting very specific here. People who man the drills and operate machinery are niche jobs usually done by senior members of a crew. What I was getting at is if you took the coal miners and gave them jobs in other fields they would most likely excel over say someone who has been driving a long haul for ten years or an auto mechanic.
The type of people who work these jobs do what they do and are good at it, because it's the environment they know and understand. Industrial mechanics and millwrights are perfect examples of people who would typically jump on these jobs because they enjoy that type of work.
My main argument is that coal used for the means of energy and electricity is inefficient, and coal should be mined for other purposes. You need coal to manufacture steel, so why burn it up? If we want sustainability then the US should be in it for the long haul, trickle some coal in for the energy sector for high density industrial areas as it burns hot and fast (why china loves to use it) and then control the rest for what it actually excels at. Ramp up production in other fields, and no jobs will be lost.
originally posted by: DBCowboy
originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: DBCowboy
Dont waste your time.
The cult of gore is stong......
It's just funny and illustrates the mindset.
"Economics" killed the coal industry.
Just like a "gun" shoots someone.
Never any talk about who pulls the trigger.
I'd really like to know if existing nuclear is actually more expensive than renewables or if it is the corporations which own and manage these facilities, these corporations which seem to demand higher profit levels every year, that make nuclear uncompetitive. I have a feeling that if nuclear were run as a state utility (without normal government bloat) that it would be VERY competitive and probably much cheaper than renewables.
When I looked into buying commercial energy from nuclear plants in my state, which is something like > 1MwH per day (usually many to 10's of MwH's) the price was less than $.01 per KwH. So when you compare that to residential rates which were about $.09-.14 /KwH which is > 900-1400% greater than the bulk commercial rate.
originally posted by: C0bzz
The reason why coal miners are losing their jobs is very simple. It has nothing to do with environmentalists, regulations, Obama, big government, or all the other boogie-men. The reason is simple. Economics.
- Natural Gas is cheap, albeit there are concerns about fracking which is banned in my state.
- Renewables are cheap. So cheap that a new wind turbine or solar panel can displace already built coal or nuclear power stations.
Here is the evidence:
Source: Lazard Levelized Cost of Energy V12.0
US Energy Information Administration. Levelized Cost and And Levelized Avoided Cost of New Generation Resources in the Annual Energy Outlook 2018 comes to similar figures but only includes Clean Coal.
The evidence for what this does to power prices is very simple. In my country:
On a national basis, residential electricity prices and bills are expected to decrease in the period from 2017-18 to 2020-21. This trend is primarily driven by wholesale costs reducing in South East Queensland, Victoria, South Australia and Tasmania. The reduction is driven by the estimated entry of 9,732 MW of accredited, committed or expected new generation and battery storage. The downward pressure this generation creates on wholesale prices more than offsets expected increases in gas and coal fuel prices over the period.
The 9,732 MW of new generation and battery storage that is expected to enter the NEM over the analysis period is comprised of:
8,961 MW of new large-scale intermittent generation.
566 MW of new thermal generation and upgraded capacity of existing generators
205 MW of battery storage, supported by jurisdictional programs.
Source: Australian Energy Market Commission
The point I am trying to make is this:
Economics do not care about your job or the family that it supports.
Economics do not care about your country.
Economics do not care about your planet.
Economics do not care about your health.
Do we have any thoughts on how we can fix all four issues here ladies and gentlemen?
(And as a side note, maybe renewables aren't a bad as you think they are).
“If somebody wants to build a coal-fired power plant, they can. It’s just that it will bankrupt them,” Obama said, responding to a question about his cap-and-trade plan. He later added, “Under my plan … electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket.”
Of course, cap and trade is long dead.
Uttered in 2008, still haunting Obama
President Barack Obama has followed through on his promise to “bankrupt” the coal industry, causing coal use to fall by 29 percent since 2007, according to a chart published Thursday by the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA).
One of the main drivers of coal retirements is the price of coal relative to natural gas. Natural gas prices have stayed relatively low since domestic natural gas production began to grow in 2007. This period of sustained, low natural gas prices has kept the cost of generating electricity with natural gas competitive with generation from coal. Other factors such as the age of generators, changes in regional electricity demand, and increased competition from renewables have led to decreasing coal capacity.
Environmental concerns have also played a role in coal retirements. Coal retirements were highest in 2015, driven in part by stricter emissions standards required by the Mercury and Air Toxics Standards (MATS) rule, which went into effect in April of that year for coal- and natural gas-fired power plants. Instead of investing in emissions control technologies, many smaller power plants that operated at lower capacity factors were retired before the new standards were implemented. Some plants applied for and received one-year extensions, which contributed to retirements in 2016.
Coal is the biggest loser in this outlook.
Coal will shrink to just 11% of global electricity generation by 2050, from 38% currently.
Yeah, funny how coal is making a comeback following the rollback of regulations that make coal unaffordable.
Why President Trump’s Coal Comeback Keeps Falling Short
Picking battles in which the odds are stacked against you isn’t smart policy, and it might not be smart politics, either.
That there has nonetheless been a modest uptick in coal-mining employment since 2016 can be chalked up to exports, which have been rising for the past two years and are expected to keep doing so. While the U.S. and other developed countries have been turning away from coal, the developing world has not. U.S. coal exports to India, for example, are up more than tenfold since 2008. But with major coal reserves present all over the world and shipping costs high relative to energy content, coal has its limits as an export commodity. The export gains so far this year haven’t been enough to offset declines in domestic consumption, with estimated 2018 U.S. coal production through Dec. 1 down 1.9 percent from the same period a year before. Given the EIA forecast of an even bigger domestic consumption drop in 2019, and signs of a slowdown in global economic growth, it seems likely that production will fall again next year, and at some point employment will have to follow.
I bet those "fines" were redirected to the flop i will never let anyone forget: Solyndra. Over 535 million dollars funneled into that solar garbage, lost forever to capitalists pockets. Thanks, Obama.
Most green energy products like solar panels, wind generators & batteries are manufactured in China in manufacturing plants powered by coal.
These green products are then shipped halfway around the world on super freighter ships which run on dirty bunker oil with no emmisions standards.
15 superfreighter ships emit more CO2 than all the automobiles in the world combined.