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The Border Wall End Game

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posted on Dec, 23 2018 @ 12:55 PM
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How much of the money has been raised from Mexico as Trump stated, is that deal still going ahead?, he ran his campaign with a promise of making the US safer but at someone elses expense, maybe thats why he is getting blocked when now asking for taxpayer money, make silly promises and sometimes you end up looking silly




posted on Dec, 23 2018 @ 01:01 PM
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a reply to: Byrd


The problem with a "false flag" is that nobody outside his core supporters believes him. The first thing that will happen is that he'll get fact-checked.

Of course he will. He gets fact checked every way from Sunday on every syllable that comes out of his mouth. If Donald Trump clears his throat, someone will come along and pronounce it a lie. And that's the reason it can work: a larger and larger percentage of people are ignoring the cries of "WOLF! WOLF!"

As to nobody believing him... not true. In the recent shutdown, every single detractor believed him when he said he would take responsibility for vetoing a bad bill and shutting down the government... so much that even when he didn't veto the bill... even when no bill was ever even presented to him to veto... his detractors believed him so much they still tried to accuse him of shutting down the government.

It seems to depend on whether or not something makes him look bad, not whether he said it.


That's just Mattis being a good soldier. He gave the standard six weeks notice, allowing for holiday shutdowns.

His notice was more like 10 weeks. Damnation, that's a good soldier!

Or an extended holiday season... take your pick.


Can you think of a single Democrat who could stand up and give a dramatic announcement about something that was a nationwide emergency -- who wouldn't get immediately fact-checked from here to Sunday by Fox News and everybody else? I can't think of a single one with that kind of cachet.

Of course they would get fact-checked... but since when has that changed anything? Has anyone been convicted... has anyone been indicted... for the murder of JFK? There were two shots; physics demands that there were two shots.

I wasn't aware that Fox was so much more powerful than CNN, CNBC, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, et.al., combined. Thanks for the heads-up.


The bases are too far apart. You'd need them closer together to have a huge impact. I can't think of a single excuse that would get every Democrat scrambling to see the wall built (when there are faster and cheaper methods of pumping up security).

There are approximately 25% of both Republicans and Democrats in the country. The rest of us are Independents. They can be swayed.

And if you'll remember after 911, the Democrats and Republicans both were screaming for us to invade Iraq... never mind not one single terrorist in the attack was from Iraq...


You might want to keep your eye on the Women's March this year.

Why?

No offense, but no one I know even cares. If it comes on the news, they turn the channel. That's another example of crying "WOLF!" Donald Trump was promoting women to high-level executive positions long before the glass ceiling was even showing cracks. The Women's March is nothing more than a bunch of women screaming the tired old "I don't like Trump, and you're sexist if you do!"


Only if you make it illegal to protest.

There are other things that are illegal.


They don't like him, remember?

The major problems are gone. Comey, McCabe, Orr, Strzok, Page, and a host of other high-level FBI leaders were fired. Remember?


I would be willing to bet against that.

Do you think the probe is eternal? Never-ending? That scares me... I don't like thinking that my great-grandchildren will be hearing about the ongoing Mueller investigation into Trump 100 years after both are dead.

It will end sometime. Reports are that it is winding down as we speak.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 23 2018 @ 01:05 PM
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originally posted by: Bloodworth
Every day citizens are being killed, raped, kidnapped, and killed in dwi's from people never supposed to be there .

What's your source for this statement? I ask because I read my local newspaper regularly and I don't see any evidence of daily crimes by illegals. I see lots of crimes by citizens. A look at the mugshots of people arrested shows a profile of people here in Texas (actually, today's mugshot lineup shows fewer Hispanics than expected, given that people with Hispanic surnames make up about 1/3 of US citizens here in Texas)

I checked a number of sites... and the number of criminals deported is only around 135,000 and the number of non-criminals is a tad over 200,000 - the number of legal us citizens outnumbers the illegals by over a thousand to one.


Trump should also build a moat in front of the wall as well

I take it you're not a westerner and haven't heard of the Rio Grande


What happened to using computer models that help predict the outcomes of these decisions.

Computer would say the citizens would see an increase in crime, increase in disease, increase in taxes.


Like this one? ... doesn't say that

And no increase in disease (particularly if you've been vaccinated)

...etc.



posted on Dec, 23 2018 @ 01:14 PM
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originally posted by: Asktheanimals
I'll just leave this here:

Tina Griego, journalist for the Denver Rocky Mountain News wrote a column titled, "Mexican Visitor's Lament." :

In California, if 3.5 million illegal aliens moved back to Mexico, it would leave an extra $10.2 billion to spend on overloaded school systems, bankrupt hospitals and overrun prisons. It would leave highways cleaner, safer and less congested. Everyone could understand one another as English became the dominant language again.


Ask, ol' buddy, ol' pal... you just fell for an Internet hoax. She did NOT write that (though she wrote a column with a similar title) and that was not the conclusion of her article.

Here's the REAL Gregio explaining that the article you posted is fake


edit on 23-12-2018 by Byrd because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2018 @ 01:15 PM
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a reply to: BlackJackal


You state the amnesty was granted? What are you referring to?

I thought it was clear when I mentioned Reagan.

Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986

Here's a little hint, young'un: The United States existed long before Donald Trump became President. It even existed before Barrack Obama became President. There's a whole time period before that that there was a United States.

Read a little and learn a little... and you might just warrant a response. Keep thinking that nothing existed before the here and now, and you don't.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 23 2018 @ 01:20 PM
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a reply to: Byrd


I take it you're not a westerner and haven't heard of the Rio Grande

I've stood on the bank... well, what passes for a bank. It's a muddy wanna-be creek, until the mud dries up, which seems to happen a lot. When I was there last, parts were dry as a bone.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 23 2018 @ 01:45 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Byrd

As to nobody believing him... not true. In the recent shutdown, every single detractor believed him when he said he would take responsibility for vetoing a bad bill and shutting down the government...

Actually, no. The belief was that he would shut down the government and then blame it on the Democrats. No one believed that he'd take responsibility for it, particularly as the complaints grow louder.

(Trump says he's responsible, Dec 11)

Trump says Democrats to blame (Dec 21)

In fact, he says the Democrats are to blame on Dec 21 on his Twitter feed.

Oh... you might not have read this but on 09/07/2018 he said he was not likely to shut down government over border wall


so much that even when he didn't veto the bill... even when no bill was ever even presented to him to veto... his detractors believed him so much they still tried to accuse him of shutting down the government.


He did shut down the government (see above) and refused to sign and then blamed it on the Democrats.



That's just Mattis being a good soldier. He gave the standard six weeks notice, allowing for holiday shutdowns.

His notice was more like 10 weeks. Damnation, that's a good soldier!

Or an extended holiday season... take your pick.

Seems Trump wanted him gone before that (I've seen reports that Trump was angry at the resignation letter) and he'll be out by January 1.


I wasn't aware that Fox was so much more powerful than CNN, CNBC, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, et.al., combined. Thanks for the heads-up.

I just gave the more likely quick fact-check source if a Democrat was making a wild statement. The other news organizations would step up as well.



I would be willing to bet against that.

Do you think the probe is eternal? Never-ending? That scares me... I don't like thinking that my great-grandchildren will be hearing about the ongoing Mueller investigation into Trump 100 years after both are dead.

It will end sometime. Reports are that it is winding down as we speak.


I think that the investigations will run for another 3 years and that we'll see other convictions and jail terms for several more people along with some plea bargains.

However, what I doubted was that Trump is going to be exonerated. I think that his legal problems are going to pile up (particularly in regard to emolluents) and that after he leaves office there'll be a lot of lawsuits waiting for him and his family (no matter how the Mueller investigation turns out.)



posted on Dec, 23 2018 @ 01:48 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Byrd


I take it you're not a westerner and haven't heard of the Rio Grande

I've stood on the bank... well, what passes for a bank. It's a muddy wanna-be creek, until the mud dries up, which seems to happen a lot. When I was there last, parts were dry as a bone.

TheRedneck


We've traveled to the Big Bend area and down along Lajitas and Del Rio and Langtree (good ol' Roy Bean). It's a pretty sizeable river in those areas right now; beautiful wilderness areas. I think you'd love it.



posted on Dec, 23 2018 @ 02:05 PM
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a reply to: Byrd


He did shut down the government (see above) and refused to sign and then blamed it on the Democrats.

Go back through those links and show me where a bill for the CR was ever laid on his desk. The House passed a CR, the Senate amended and passed it, the House amended and passed it, and the Senate then refused to pass it. No President can sign or veto a bill that does not get out of the Congress.


Seems Trump wanted him gone before that (I've seen reports that Trump was angry at the resignation letter) and he'll be out by January 1.

Last I heard was late February.


I just gave the more likely quick fact-check source if a Democrat was making a wild statement. The other news organizations would step up as well.

That would be a breath of fresh air. This far, they have done the opposite.


I think that the investigations will run for another 3 years and that we'll see other convictions and jail terms for several more people along with some plea bargains.

However, what I doubted was that Trump is going to be exonerated. I think that his legal problems are going to pile up (particularly in regard to emolluents) and that after he leaves office there'll be a lot of lawsuits waiting for him and his family (no matter how the Mueller investigation turns out.)

I have a feeling you are going to be sorely disappointed.


We've traveled to the Big Bend area and down along Lajitas and Del Rio and Langtree (good ol' Roy Bean). It's a pretty sizeable river in those areas right now; beautiful wilderness areas. I think you'd love it.

I've never been to Big Bend, but from everything I have heard I would love it. I also know that there are areas where the Rio Grande is actually a river, but there seem to be many more where it fits my initial description: a wet-weather creek.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 23 2018 @ 02:32 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: BlackJackal


You state the amnesty was granted? What are you referring to?

I thought it was clear when I mentioned Reagan.

Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986

Here's a little hint, young'un: The United States existed long before Donald Trump became President. It even existed before Barrack Obama became President. There's a whole time period before that that there was a United States.

Read a little and learn a little... and you might just warrant a response. Keep thinking that nothing existed before the here and now, and you don't.

TheRedneck


I’m sorry but it was not clear you were referring to Reagon in that statement. It really appeared that you were saying the current Dems have gotten amnesty but did not give funding for the border wall.

Plus, it’s funny you’re calling me a young’un considering I’m 65 years old. I thought I made that clear in another thread where you said you didn’t want your son to be drafted and I said the same thing about my son.

Plus the read a little learn a little snarky comment is completely unnecessary. I nicely asked you for clarification on your statement, I didn’t insult you in any way. However, if you really believe you are smarter than me, I would be willing to debate you on any topic of your choosing, judged by a set of impartial judges. Or if debate isn’t your game, I would be will happy to go head to head with you in a multiple choice American History trivia matchup. If you feel multiple choice is too simple, we can do short answer or essay answer.

Either way I’m sick and tired of you pretending like you know what you are talking about. If you really think you are more knowledgeable than me then prove it. Otherwise, you know the old adage “Put up or shut up”.



posted on Dec, 23 2018 @ 02:43 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Plus, where is your response to the rest of the questions I posed?

You were sure to jump on the Reagan thing, (when you clearly were attempting to compare two dissimilar events, Amnesty was a part of Reagans situation but not Trump) but what about all those broken campaign promises or the fact that he signaled he would sign the spending bill without the border wall?



posted on Dec, 23 2018 @ 08:27 PM
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a reply to: scrounger

True, the border is basically a war zone in some areas. It wasn't that long ago there were a ton of beheadings in a border town at a club.



posted on Dec, 23 2018 @ 08:29 PM
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a reply to: BlackJackal

so your gonna hang your hat on he not (taking at face value for discussion) he promised to sigh the bill without the boarder wall funding?

common dude if he had done that you be screaming "he broke a campaign (or another one) promise so he is dishonest "/

if he said what you claim he then realized (no not by rush Limbaugh so save that next tired old propaganda) he made a mistake and HONORED HIS PROMISE .

your hypocrisy is well documented and showing here with this statement

next spin rant please
Scrounger



posted on Dec, 23 2018 @ 08:29 PM
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a reply to: BlackJackal

double post
edit on 23-12-2018 by scrounger because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2018 @ 08:31 PM
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a reply to: BlackJackal

It was clear to anyone with gray matter between their ears.

Also, he proves he's more knowledgeable than you on an hourly basis. As reagan said (paraphrasing): It's not that liberals are stupid, it's just that they know so much that isn't so.
edit on 23-12-2018 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2018 @ 09:48 PM
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a reply to: BlackJackal


I’m sorry but it was not clear you were referring to Reagon in that statement. It really appeared that you were saying the current Dems have gotten amnesty but did not give funding for the border wall.

Then perhaps you should actually read the posts you reply to. Why would I have mentioned Ronald Reagan and then talked about Trump?

No, admit it, you saw something in your hyper-sensitive "get Trump" mindset and attacked like a rabid dog. Now, you're trying to twist it over to me. Nope, that dog don't hunt. When I misread a post and get called on it, I apologize. That's because I actually want a reasoned debate, not some childish game of "got'cha!"


Plus, it’s funny you’re calling me a young’un considering I’m 65 years old.

Which makes your childish actions all the more disturbing.


Either way I’m sick and tired of you pretending like you know what you are talking about. If you really think you are more knowledgeable than me then prove it. Otherwise, you know the old adage “Put up or shut up”.

Hoss, I do know what I am talking about. You simply choose to live in some fantasy world that tries to twist history around. If I don't know something I either listen to others and then look up what they say for clarification, or I ask for more information. There are some great minds on ATS, and I both admire and respect them. As an example, Byrd above is a very intelligent person and I take care when she makes definitive statements... I have learned to trust her, even though we regularly disagree.

And I have proved it since 2007.


Plus, where is your response to the rest of the questions I posed?

Right under the rest of the post:

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: BlackJackal

Read a little and learn a little... and you might just warrant a response. Keep thinking that nothing existed before the here and now, and you don't.

TheRedneck

I'm not going to waste my time trying to educate someone who has proven time and time again that they don't want to understand anything that doesn't match up with their ideology.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 24 2018 @ 07:48 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

You are the absolute worst type of person. You are wrong more times than not but in your head you think you’re a genius. Before you attempt to deny it, go back and look at your past posts. You routinely accuse people on this board of lacking intelligence and when you’re not outright saying you are the most intelligent person you know you responses are laden with condescension. You really need to read up on the Dunning-Kruger effect because you sir are a classic example.

Let’s take a look at the paragraph from your OP. I’m going to highlight a few words and phrases.


Seems like Trump fell for the same trick Reagan had pulled on him back in the 80s. He was promised tight border security in exchange for granting amnesty for illegal aliens in the country. [bThe amnesty was granted, then the funding for the border dried up. But there's one big difference between then and now: Reagan complained, but Trump has set his foot down. He wants his funding, and he plans to get it.


I don’t know if you intended to give the false appearance that amnesty was granted under Trump or if you just have poor grammar skills but either way you definitely portrayed that to be a fact.

In the first sentence you say that Trump and Reagan fell for the same trick. Surely I don’t need to spell out the definition of same do I, young’in? In your second sentence you lay out what trick both Trump and Reagan jointly fell prey to. They were promised border security in exchange for amnesty. Now you state that the amnesty was granted. And lastly you state that there is one big difference in the situation between Trump and Reagan and that is Reagan didn’t put his foot down and Trump did.

On three occasions you insinuate the situations between Trump and Reagan are the same. When you do spell out the one difference it has nothing to do with amnesty not being granted for Trump, according to you the only difference is that Trump put his foot down.

I find it incredibly sad that someone can’t simply admit that you accidentally wrote a paragraph incorrectly. When I asked you originally about the amnesty, I wasn’t rude, I didn’t call you out. I simply said:


You state the amnesty was granted? What are you referring to?

There was a deal to exchange DACA for border wall funding but that fell through due to Republicans not voting for it back in February.[1] Honestly, I was unable to find anything that has been passed while Trump was in office that is anything close to amnesty. I believe you are mistaken, there has not been any amnesty granted at all.


All you had to say was, “Sorry for the confusion, I didn’t mean to imply Trump got amnesty”. And that would have been that. But no, you had to go all holier than thou. Act like your special because you’re middle aged. Attempt to demean my Intelligence. And you are a moderator of this site nonetheless. You are an absolutely abysmal representative of this once great site. Instead of denying ignorance and searching for the truth you make it clear that you only care to destroy your opposition with no regard for decorum or decency.

The fact that you refuse to debate me or confront me in a dual of knowledge and wits speaks volumes. You give some half-hearted response about not wanting to waste your time ‘educating’ someone who doesn’t just believe everything you say at face value. Do you even realize how ignorant that statement sounds? Just because I have differing opinions from you, you believe I’m an idiot. You know, I doubt this will do any good because I don’t believe you have it in you to open up your mind.

Since you are so intelligent and I’m so stupid it should be a simple matter for you to just wipe the floor with me, right? So, why are you hesitant to go head to head with stupid ol me? You are super quick to proclaim your intelligence when there is no way to verify your claims (something that holds true for many of your posts) but when I challenge you to back it up, you chicken out.

So what will it be? Are you a fraud and you know it or are you chicken?
edit on 24-12-2018 by BlackJackal because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2018 @ 08:51 PM
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How do we know when Trump has successfully installed the wall?

Will groups just state: he is not finished, when Trump says he is.

What constitutes finishing the wall installation?

a reply to: Dfairlite



posted on Dec, 24 2018 @ 11:43 PM
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a reply to: BlackJackal


You are the absolute worst type of person.

Considering the source, thank you for the compliment.

If I got under your skin so deep, I must be doing something right.

TheRedneck







 
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