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The Border Wall End Game

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posted on Dec, 22 2018 @ 12:21 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

They WILL find ways to get here. Regardless of walls or coast guards or patrols. If the incentive is high enough, it will happen. They WILL come.

The bottom line is, if employers stopped hiring them, they wouldn’t come. The solution is to set in place stricter checks, and much stricter punishments. Basically, put these employers out of business if they are caught. That would be a good enough incentive not to hire illegals.




posted on Dec, 22 2018 @ 12:35 PM
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a reply to: kaylaluv

I already covered that. But...

Why does an illegal have to work? They receive free food, free medical care, free tuition in many cases, and a host of other perks that make their lives better. In the meantime, they drag the economy down.

The wall is one part of a mutli-pronged approach. Yes, I like your idea. But it doesn't replace a wall, any more than the wall will replace it.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 22 2018 @ 12:39 PM
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I'm so tired of the bipartisan gridlock in Congress I would almost be happy to see martial law. Me, the same guy who has been worrying about it for 30 years. I know nothing in government will improve under the current system, even supposedly 'settled' things like amnesty (this is the LAST time!) are never carried through on. I don't think anyone would argue against change, it's simply a matter of how and why it is instituted. America needs to start over in many ways, maybe this is how it's going to happen. No, I don't read Q posts either.

All I know is the current system is not only unsustainable, it's also unbearable and unaccountable and can only end in totalitarian rule likely after an economic collapse the likes of which the world has never seen.
edit on 22-12-2018 by Asktheanimals because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2018 @ 03:59 PM
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originally posted by: scrounger
a reply to: okrian

ok lets look at the issue you raised.

first "financial irresponsible oversized monument to his base"
you do know that illegals cost the taxpayer over 300 BILLION dollars annually?
that is a conservative estimate (to which i suspect its quite more) on incarceration, crime, and social services (from welfare , schooling, medical, ect) .


Hmmm. That, as you well know, is not a conservative estimate. In fact it's triple the amount that even Hannity attempted to falsely claim. Even 100 billion is using some fudgy math (which was the Hannity claim).


originally posted by: scrounger
a reply to: okrian

given that the cost of the wall max is 70 billion with roughly 300 million to maintain.

If the wall is ONLY 50 percent effective, that means building it AND MAINTAINING IT for 10 years will cost 73 billion thus leaving roughly 75 BILLION savings to us taxpayers in the FIRST YEAR ALONE with the wall BUILT AND MAINTAINED FOR 10 YEARS.
every year after that is then around 150 BILLION SAVINGS .

even if the wall was only 25 percent effective...
by the figures given your first year savings would PAY FOR THE WALL AND 10 YEARS OF MAINTENANCE.
the rest of the time 75 BILLION A YEAR SAVINGS TO TAXPAYERS.


Well already this entire portion your post is based off of your highly creative math at the beginning. Additionally the rest of your post is 100% speculative. If the wall does nothing, as anyone can get past a wall, then it's no savings whatsoever. And again, just a monument to his base.


originally posted by: scrounger
a reply to: okrian

second point.

"Doesn't do anything to curb the hiring of illegals. If he actually cared he'd block the hiring of illegals and severely punish corporations/businesses that hire them."

while a good point on the outside misses a few FACTS.

some republicans are as you say, but most of the people fighting implementing what you suggest are LIBERALS/DEMOCRATS (including obama).

lets take a little test.. who said/did it..

"they (illegals) are doing jobs americans wont do "..... DEMOCRATS.

"they just want to make a better life for themselves so its not bad there here"..... DEMOCRATS.

"Fought e-verify tooth and nail claiming racism, doesnt work, ect" ....... DEMOCRATS.

Who had the majority for two years in every part of politics , and didnt propose ONE DAMN THING YOU STATED..... DEMOCRATS AGAIN.

who mostly grants illegals DRIVERS LICENCES ......... DEMOCRATS.

who fought cutting welfare for ABLE BODIED AMERICAN CITIZENS to make them get jobs (yes even done by illegals).....DEMOCRATS.

So again while SOME republicans did side with issue you brought up....MOST WERE DONE BY DEMOCRATS.

now the big one...
who mostly is fighting DEPORTING ILLEGALS...... democrats.


This sad deflection does nothing to absolve Trump for not doing anything to actually curb illegal immigration (i.e. stopping the hiring of illegals). The Democrats are center-right corporatists that just aren't as far right as the republican corporatists so I'm not sure what point you are trying to prove.

All that said, you know who is busting ass to find work? It isn't young white people. We both know this to be true.
Do you think young Americans are entitled and lazy? Many on the right do. Do you think that has any affect whatsoever in the grande scheme of things?


originally posted by: scrounger
a reply to: okrian

lastly on the "promise of mexico paying for the wall"

mexico to put those funds they were supposed to use to improve themselves and STOP THE ILLEGALS .
I guess you missed the point of the SAVINGS the wall would have, the ideas such as TAXING transactions of money sent back to mexico and also cutting aid to cover the cost of the wall.

but I guess things like that as they all were DOABLE kinda torpedo your old well used talking point

now are you gonna follow the usual talking points by calling me "unchristian", blind trump supporter, racist, anti immigrant or just go to the personal attacks?



scrounger


No, I'm going to call you out for doing some serious goalpost moving, not holding Trump his promise, and making up stories about what "could" happen in order for the mental gymnastics to play out.
edit on 22-12-2018 by okrian because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2018 @ 04:34 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

If that were true, then no illegals would ever work, because they wouldn’t need to. But we know for a fact that illegals are working - all the time. We know for a fact that employers are hiring illegals - all the time.

These illegals are working because they need to, to survive. They’re certainly not doing it for Schlitz and giggles.



posted on Dec, 22 2018 @ 07:28 PM
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a reply to: [post=24053213]kaylaluv[/pos

wow what a post chastising "moving goalposts" and "speculative estimates" that reaks of hypocrisy.

first...
the amounts used in my post were on HIGHEST/WORST CASE estimates available.
in fact the amount you quoted was from someone that at best was mocking the wall and not on any realistic projections.
You took it to next level of deflection by saying my figures were "from hennity" (btw he quoted SOME of those figures but thats not where I got them from) like just because he said them its false.

In fact the amount of costs of illegals and some wall estimates come from the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
so hardly "right wing highly speculative".

I quoted latest HIGHEST ESTIMATES and the effectiveness I used 50 percent and 25 percent.. the first most realistic and the second very low.

Second...
your attempt to call deflection and trump wasnt doing anything.

well lets look at facts.
wanted DACA ended and CONGRESS (who even obama said should be dealing with it PER CONSTITUTION and why had expiration date) solve the problem
even offered MORE than they asked for to stay and who rejected it..... DEMOCRATS

wanted to reform immigration law (without blanket amnesty) , called for it and wanted it on his desk to sign....
fought by DEMOCRATS.

Campaigned on the wall and tried to get it built... fought by (CURRENTLY NOW EVEN) by democrats...

campaigned wanted E verify enforced and required (no exceptions) by all employers..... fought by DEMOCRATS.

So your second comment is PROVEN to be false and IGNORING FACTS.

three

saying white people are not "busting their ass" to find work and the right claims they are "lazy"

REALLY?

Many many have been trying to find ANY WORK during the obama administration and was in many articles on main stream media... guess you missed all that?

many many have complained illegal aliens are taking not only lower paying field work but TRADE JOBS like construction.
but I guess you thought all articles were "faux news" right?

many states are trying and trump is trying to get legislation to make those ABLE TO WORK on welfare to do so
guess who fights this tooth and nail? DEMOCRATS

The GAO shows how illegals increase the worker pool and lower overall wages... econ 101

so AGAIN a rant that is emotional, propaganda drivel .

lastly

I guess you missed constitution class in school

trump can say what legislation he wants
when a bill comes to his desk he can sign or veto.
THAT IS ALL

the CONGRESS must make, pass and overide a veto.

THIS IS CONSTITUTION 101

to claim he "didnt do what he said" IGNORES this fact.

But he has stated CLEARLY what he wants and on more than one topic stated "put a bill on my desk I will sign it"

So you have not "called out" anything and it is YOU who moves goalposts.
add to it IGNORANCE of constitutional law and gross use of propaganda.

So all you did was try to deflect from the FACTS i gave and hope that by spewing emotional fact lacking propaganda that you can convince people its the truth

sorry but a LIE no matter how much it is told and what small grain of truth you put into it will NOT MAKE IT FACT.

Scrounger



posted on Dec, 22 2018 @ 07:34 PM
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actually they work to send money back to home country (be mexico or central america)

the studies show alot DO NOT work and use our welfare system

in fact that is why you see alot of multi familes living in housing to pool welfare and work resources .

what you dont seem to grasp is that living under the welfare/aid system we have is a great step up from their home countries.

Free education, medical care, housing, and food programs.

add to it the fact when it is brought up about american ABLE BODY on welfare , homeless and unemployed working in the fields we hear how low paying it is

so they are coming here for extreme (their words) low paying jobs AMERICANS dont want to do but its your claim they are coming to work?

you cant have it both ways

BTW you do know it is ILLEGAL for them to have ANY JOB due to breaking immigration law right?
but democrats fight E verify...

sorry but your arguments dont hold water

scrounger



posted on Dec, 22 2018 @ 08:02 PM
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a reply to: kaylaluv

They're working to make money to send home, while they live here on our dime.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 22 2018 @ 08:04 PM
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a reply to: okrian


If the wall does nothing, as anyone can get past a wall, then it's no savings whatsoever.

I'd love to see a vid of you walking through a wall... since anyone can do it.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 22 2018 @ 08:11 PM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: scrounger

So why didn’t Trump, while he had both the senate and the house, push hard to get legislation that allowed more checks and investigations, and much more severe punishments for employers hiring illegals?


AHEM.

Why won't anyone answer this one? He had his best shot, and blew it. Now there's a chorus of caterwauling to avoid touching this question.

Now fecking figure out WHY he blew his shot. Hint: has a lot to do with money and pertinent donors, I betcha.



posted on Dec, 22 2018 @ 08:29 PM
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END GAME should be:

A dual funding bill.

Medicare for anyone who wants to buy in + Fund Border Security, including the wall @ $10 Billion = EASY PASSAGE in House and Senate. All Americans WIN.

Then begin phasing out ObamaCare subsidies over 5 years. (20% reduction per year)



posted on Dec, 22 2018 @ 11:28 PM
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originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: scrounger

So why didn’t Trump, while he had both the senate and the house, push hard to get legislation that allowed more checks and investigations, and much more severe punishments for employers hiring illegals?


AHEM.

Why won't anyone answer this one? He had his best shot, and blew it. Now there's a chorus of caterwauling to avoid touching this question.

Now fecking figure out WHY he blew his shot. Hint: has a lot to do with money and pertinent donors, I betcha.


Ill answer it why he hasnt been able to do all his campaign promises and do what is necessary for the wall/illegal immigration.

ITS CALLED THE CONSTITUTION.

the president campaigned on the wall and stopping ILLEGAL immigration.
when he was elected (psst by THE PEOPLE) on these topics he layed out to the congress what he wanted to do.
on some things like the TEMPORARY travel ban where he had CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY to do so he did.
on other things he OPENLY STATED give him the bills he wanted and "I WILL SIGN THEM".

well the congress and senate DIDNT GIVE HIM THE LEGISLATION he asked (and campaigned) for.

UNLESS they make and approve the bills he asked for he cant do much else.
all ANY PRESIDENT CAN DO is sign or veto bills that come across his desk.

CONSTITUTION 101

to claim he had his "best shot" and failed is disingenuous and unfair.

In fact alot of the congressmen who lost their seats or didnt win were arguably RINO's and/or didnt do what they kept promising they do when they had majority.

alot of the senators who did (especially in the supreme court nomination) stayed and/or got elected.
be democrat or republican.

all trump can do (unless you want him to be the tyrant we keep hearing the press and liberals scream constantly) is what the constitution says he can .

even then the anti trump, liberals, democrats go to court when they dont get their way.

all that is left is for him to stand his ground/principles/ what he promised and let the chips fall where they may.
last time he did this he got elected.

there you have been answered.

scrounger



posted on Dec, 23 2018 @ 01:42 AM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: seagull


He needn't have to have a "false flag" incident. Declare a national emergency, such as in the aftermath of a hurricane, or something of that nature...

Human wave migration, or the threat of it, should qualify.

Yes, but there is the synchronicity of February to consider, which is why I suspect a false flag. The proposed CR was designed to last through February, as is Mattis' tenure as SoD.


The problem with a "false flag" is that nobody outside his core supporters believes him. The first thing that will happen is that he'll get fact-checked. The military brass HAVE refused his orders before (in case you hadn't noticed) and since he's shut down the government, there's no personnel to do anything.

A "false flag" has to come from an unquestionably reputable source.


I really believe Mattis' disagreement with Trump over the Syria withdrawals is not so much over the withdrawals themselves (we simply can't and really shouldn't just stay there indefinitely), but more to what Trump plans to do with the troops once they get back. Two months over a disagreement on principle seems a long time to me to wait about leaving. That was actually my first thought when the retirement was announced: what happens in February?


That's just Mattis being a good soldier. He gave the standard six weeks notice, allowing for holiday shutdowns. And Syria was the last straw for him - you may have noticed that another top diplomat resigned over the same issue and Trump is getting a lot of flak from the Foreign Relations department and so forth about his unwise decision.


Then of course I realized that the proposed CR ran out in February. I wouldn't dismiss the possibility that Trump has caught word of a secret false flag planned by the Democrats either.


Can you think of a single Democrat who could stand up and give a dramatic announcement about something that was a nationwide emergency -- who wouldn't get immediately fact-checked from here to Sunday by Fox News and everybody else? I can't think of a single one with that kind of cachet.


My next concern would be, what would the purpose of a false flag operation be? Obviously the same reason they have been used in the past: to sway public sentiment.

The bases are too far apart. You'd need them closer together to have a huge impact. I can't think of a single excuse that would get every Democrat scrambling to see the wall built (when there are faster and cheaper methods of pumping up security).


As it stands right now, there is substantial support for a wall to be built, but there is also substantial opposition. After a false flag, that could easily change; we've all seen how easily the public can be lead this way. There will be some political blowback to making this end run around Congress, and there has to be a very good reason in the minds of the American public for it to be accepted.

You might want to keep your eye on the Women's March this year. The ones after Trump's election were huge and that has started a yearly tradition of protest marches (there were marches last year... I participated... and so I'm aware of the ones for 2019.) That signals a very solid anti-trump base.


Then again, perhaps there is some planned legal action against the largest decriers of the wall planned...


Only if you make it illegal to protest. And that's going to cause real problems.


Trump does have access to the FBI now.

They don't like him, remember?


Or perhaps it is something less sinister, like the ending of the Mueller probe with Trump's exoneration.

I would be willing to bet against that.



posted on Dec, 23 2018 @ 06:22 AM
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Why not just build the wall out of Hesco barriers?



posted on Dec, 23 2018 @ 06:35 AM
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Every day citizens are being killed, raped, kidnapped, and killed in dwi's from people never supposed to be there .

Where is the common sense?

Every illegal alien currently in jail committed a crime that should have been prevented.

This will will start paying for its self back 10 fold

Trump should also build a moat in front of the wall as well

From the shear numbers the u.s. is allowing legally , they better worry about over population, number of jobs, number of resources.

What happened to using computer models that help predict the outcomes of these decisions.

Computer would say the citizens would see an increase in crime, increase in disease, increase in taxes.

Oh that's what dems dont like computer models



posted on Dec, 23 2018 @ 09:36 AM
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originally posted by: Phage

No. And I don't want a wall either.


Why?

I know CNN told you that you didn't want a wall, but I still hold out hope that you were able to retain at least a little individuality when they lobotomized you.



posted on Dec, 23 2018 @ 10:28 AM
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originally posted by: Asktheanimals
I'm so tired of the bipartisan gridlock in Congress I would almost be happy to see martial law. Me, the same guy who has been worrying about it for 30 years. I know nothing in government will improve under the current system, even supposedly 'settled' things like amnesty (this is the LAST time!) are never carried through on. I don't think anyone would argue against change, it's simply a matter of how and why it is instituted. America needs to start over in many ways, maybe this is how it's going to happen. No, I don't read Q posts either.

All I know is the current system is not only unsustainable, it's also unbearable and unaccountable and can only end in totalitarian rule likely after an economic collapse the likes of which the world has never seen.


"happy to see martial law"

I've seen everything now...Kinda makes me glad I still support the Second Amendment.

Yet I believe that the Grinch who stole Christmas,...will eventually acquiesce to Congressional demands for 1.6 billion for border security --- not any type of wall --- But I'll never forgive President Trump for partially shutting down our government, whether or not he's being brainwashed by the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter or Fox News.



posted on Dec, 23 2018 @ 11:36 AM
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I'll just leave this here:


Tina Griego, journalist for the Denver Rocky Mountain News wrote a column titled, "Mexican Visitor's Lament." :

In California, if 3.5 million illegal aliens moved back to Mexico, it would leave an extra $10.2 billion to spend on overloaded school systems, bankrupt hospitals and overrun prisons. It would leave highways cleaner, safer and less congested. Everyone could understand one another as English became the dominant language again.

In Colorado, 500,000 illegal migrants, plus their 300,000 kids and grandchilds would move back "home," mostly to Mexico. That would save Colorado an estimated $2 billion (other experts say $7 billion) annually in taxes that pay for schooling, medical, social-services and incarceration costs. It means 12,000 gang members would vanish out of Denver alone.

Colorado would save more than $20 million in prison costs, and the terror that those 7,300 alien criminals set upon local citizens. Denver Officer Don Young and hundreds of Colorado victims would not have suffered death, accidents, rapes and other crimes by illegals.

Denver Public Schools would not suffer a 67% dropout/flunk rate because of thousands of illegal alien students speaking 41 different languages. At least 200,000 vehicles would vanish from our gridlocked cities in Colorado. Denver's 4% unem ployment rate would vanish as our working poor would gain jobs at a living wage.

In Florida, 1.5 million illegals would return the Sunshine State back to America, the rule of law, and English.
In Chicago, Illinois, 2.1 million illegals would free up hospitals, schools, prisons and highways for a safer, cleaner and more crime-free experience.

If 20 million illegal aliens returned 'home,' the U.S. Economy would return to the rule of law. Employers would hire legal American citizens at a living wage. Everyone would pay their fair share of taxes because they wouldn't be working off the books. That would result in an additional $401 billion in IRS income taxes collected annually, and an equal amount for local, state and city coffers.

No more push '1' for Spanish or '2' for English. No more confusion in American schools that now must contend with over 100 languages that degrade the educational system for American kids. Our overcrowded schools would lose more than two million illegal alien kids at a cost of billions in ESL and free breakfasts and lunches.
We would lose 500,000 illegal criminal alien inmates at a cost of more than $1.6 billion annually. That includes 15,000 MS-13 gang members who distribute $130 billion in drugs annually would vacate our country.

In cities like L.A., 20,000 members of the '18th Street Gang' would vanish from our nation. No more Mexican forgery gangs for ID theft from Americans! No more foreign rapists and child molesters!

Losing more than 20 million people would clear up our crowded highways and gridlock. Cleaner air and less drinking and driving American deaths by illegal aliens!
America's economy is drained. Taxpayers are harmed. Employers get rich. Over $80 billion annually wouldn't return to the aliens' home countries by cash transfers. Illegal migrants earned half that money untaxed, which further drains America 's economy which currently suffers an $8.7 trillion debt. $8.7 trillion debt!!!

At least 400,000 anchor babies would not be born in our country, costing us $109 billion per year per cycle. At least 86 hospitals in California, Georgia and Florida would still be operating instead of being bankrupt out of existence because illegals pay nothing via the EMTOLA Act. Americans wouldn't suffer thousands of TB and hepatitis cases rampant in our country - brought in by illegals unscreened at our borders.
Our cities would see 20 million less people driving, polluting and grid locking our cities. It would also put the 'progressives' on the horns of a dilemma; illegal aliens and their families cause 11% of our greenhouse gases.

Over one million of Mexico's poorest citizens now live inside and along our border from Brownsville, Texas, to San Diego, California, in what the New York Times called, 'colonias' or new neighborhoods. Trouble is, those living areas resemble Bombay and Calcutta where grinding poverty, filth, diseases, drugs, crimes, no sanitation and worse. They live without sewage, clean water, streets, roads, electricity, or any kind of sanitation.


edit on 23-12-2018 by Asktheanimals because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2018 @ 12:39 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
Earlier this year, a lot of Trump supporters, myself included, were fairly unhappy with a massively bloated omnibus bill he signed. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out why he would do that... it was the closest I had seen to him breaking a campaign promise.


So this is as close he has come to breaking a campaign promise? What about when he promised to declare China a currency manipulator? What about the promise to balance the federal budget 'quickly'? What about the promise to create targeted child care tax credits? What about the promise to repeal the alternative minimum tax? What about the promise to eliminate the carried interest loophole? What about the promise to stop the AT&T and Time Warner merger?

All those aside, what about the promise to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it? That's a pretty clear broken promise considering he has shut the US government down because the US will not pay for his wall.


This week, we found out why. Thursday morning, he tweeted that he had been promised border funding by the end of the year.

Seems like Trump fell for the same trick Reagan had pulled on him back in the 80s. He was promised tight border security in exchange for granting amnesty for illegal aliens in the country. The amnesty was granted, then the funding for the border dried up. But there's one big difference between then and now: Reagan complained, but Trump has set his foot down. He wants his funding, and he plans to get it.


You state the amnesty was granted? What are you referring to?

There was a deal to exchange DACA for border wall funding but that fell through due to Republicans not voting for it back in February.[1] Honestly, I was unable to find anything that has been passed while Trump was in office that is anything close to amnesty. I believe you are mistaken, there has not been any amnesty granted at all.


It all seemed to come to the forefront on the 11th, when in a meeting with Pelosi and Schumer, Trump declared that he would not sign any resolution that did not include funding for the border, including $5B for the border wall. He even stated that if the Congress sent him such a resolution, he would veto it even though it meant shutting down the government, and then said he would even 'own' it if it came to that. Well, we all know what happened next: The Senate passed a CR to fund the government through February, then the House attached an amendment granting Trump $5.7B. The Senate then refused to agree on the House bill, and the government, at least part of it, will be shut down just under an hour from now. Trump never even had a bill make it to his desk.


Trump told Mitch McConnel and other Republicans in Congress that he was fine signing a spending bill that did not include border wall spending.[2] He reneged once he heard from the likes of Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh.[3] This is not some master plan but like usual it is a knee-jerk reaction by Trump to attempt to appease his base, nothing else. Senator Bob Corker(R) even specifically called out these conservative talk radio hosts for creating this situation.[4] You are attempting to apply meaning and planning to nothing more than the emotional reactions of an unstable president.


We also found out that Trump is withdrawing troops from Syria, declaring the ISIS threat defeated. In terms of their caliphate, they are defeated; in terms of their association, they will never be defeated until the last one dies of old age. OK, I can go along with that... we shouldn't have been there in the first place, and it sounds to me (MSM notwithstanding) that the administration is simply transitioning to another phase of operation rather than actually leaving completely. But then, shocker, Mad Dog Mattis resigns! The rumor mil is alive with reports that the reason is over a disagreement in removing troops from Syria. That doesn't sound like Mad Dog.


Mattis, a career military man, resigns in protest laying out clearly that he doesn't believe Trump's policies benefit America's place in the global order. Yet, instead of being concerned many Trump supporters think, yet again, Trump is right and it's the experts who don't know what they are talking about. In this situation alone, people are believing Trump who knows very little about military over a general who is respected by both sides of the aisle.

What is it going to take for Trump supporters to finally open their eyes are realize that Trump is not good for this country?


But... and this is what I want to discuss... what if the timing is not coincidental? Just humor me a minute here.

That's what I am seeing anyway.

TheRedneck


Like I pointed out above, this was not a planned move, this was a knee-jerk reaction. If this was his plan all along why would he signal that he would sign the spending bill all the way up until after the Senate voted and passed a bill he said he would sign?

There is no master plan here. This is simply Trump being afraid his base will turn on him if he doesn't get funding for the border wall. All of this even though the promise was Mexico was supposed to pay for the thing.


Mad Dog will retire, getting out of Dodge while the getting is good, and Trump will appoint a temporary SoD while his actual pick is being vetted.


While not necessarily on topic, this is a bit of interesting news that may change your opinion of Trump. He is so upset with Mattis's resignation letter that he is forcing him out January 1st. Does that really seem like the action of a mature president?[5]



[1] Senate immigration vote count: The bipartisan DACA deal just failed
[2] Senate passes bill to keep government open until February, undercutting Trump’s drive for border wall funding
[3] Pressure from base pushed a flustered Trump into shutdown reversal
[4] Tennessee Republican Senator Bob Corker calls conservative talk radio hosts tyrants
[5] Trump Forces out Mattis on January 1, Two Months Earlier Than Expected



posted on Dec, 23 2018 @ 12:43 PM
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originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Phage

No. And I don't want a wall either.


Why?

I know CNN told you that you didn't want a wall, but I still hold out hope that you were able to retain at least a little individuality when they lobotomized you.


You know the fact that he just isn't going along with the majority on this site that want a wall is evidence he is thinking for himself. Wouldn't it be much easier to just agree with you and go along with the majority?

Maybe it's you that has lost you individuality, have you considered that?



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