USAF Actually Buying F-15Xs?

a reply to: Zaphod58

I might not be so averse to defence spending, but defence is not US MO. America is not protecting the world with hellfire.

Just came to let your participant know to pay me no mind. I don't know what went through my mind when I said it.
It didn't need saying, people don't need reminding. The rest of the world knows.

It was a pointless, incendiary post really and could only garner one response.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Fair enough. I always take your word on it as an expert opinion. You are probably right. All I do is read stuff and generate an opinion. Thanks for the correction.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Lulpin

Talk to the pilots that are flying them...

They'll tell you something else entirely. Reports out of exercises like Red Flag say otherwise, as well.

Are there bugs? Yes. Every new system has bugs. From the infantry grunts rifle, to the latest in CAS aircraft. Bugs are a fact of life.

But it's not even remotely "absolute trash".

Now the F-22 is truly air superiority, puts the F-15 to shame.

a reply to: tadaman

That's one reason that a war with China would be interesting, but suck. Guam is pretty much our best location to operate against them, but is easily within their missile range. Once we lose Guam, they'd have to pull back to Japan and Okinawa, which would extend ops a lot more. It's going to be a massive tanker war, and with the J-20/J-15 sensor-shooter combination our support aircraft will be at great risk. If we lose them, or have to pull them back, we're going to be in a world of hurt.

a reply to: tadaman

Using F35s for all possible missions, even those other planes could do for cheaper per flight hour and in terms of maintenance, is also going to take money away from F35 funds. 

The F-35 is just entering IOC and already has a comparable cost per hour as the F-15 which first flew nearly fifty years ago, is still in production, and has a massive fleet footprint worldwide with associated mature supply chains. F-35 operational costs will continue to trend down as FRP is set to begin. That's why the Eagles are looking at an early axe. It's a beautiful, big brute of an airplane with twin engines and high associated costs and big logistical footprint. They are looking to keep the far cheaper, single-engine Vipers to be the low-mix doing the bomb truck work; the F-15 costs almost three times as much per flight hour.

When you cut the logistical footprint of the Eagles out entirely (no giant parts surplus, no training, maintenance training, heavy maintenance hours) and replace it with an already existing aircraft in your fleet, you begin to see lower-costs per for the second-aircraft because of economies of scale. AND you cut the maintenance footprint costs for maintaining an entirely separate fleet type. Streamlining the fleet into fewer types has MASSIVE ROI benefits. It's why we don't field a dozen specialized tactical fighters anymore (Huns, Voodoos, Thuds, F-104's, Daggers and Darts, -111's, Phantoms, F-5's, Slufs, Super Tweets were all flying at the same time in the 60's for example). It's why the A-10 is continually on the block even though it's relatively cheap. It's why the maintenance intensive and small bomber fleets for the Bone and B-2 are going to be immediately replaced. And it's why moving forward, the sooner the Eagles go, the better.

If they need an immediate recap, then expand the F-35 buy and production rate, zero-hour and update the lowest-hour C/D's, or buy a bunch of the new fancy, schmancy Vipers and start replacing the older, tired Eagles and Vipers. Or more radically spend the -X money on pushing LCAA/Have Raider-X forward. It is ready. Or just suck it up and wait on PCA which they want by 2030 (which I still think is its own mistake, but a different topic entirely).

a reply to: Zaphod58

Hey, quick question.

Does the J-20 /J-15 have target quality IR sensors?

I heard from Chinese sites that stealth can be seen on IR, and with proper link networking or onboard computing power that a target quality lock can be made at long ranges.

If so what you say about the Pacific is that much more nuts.

I know we have been through this before but we definitely need some Battlestars. (Space-based carriers). LoL

Thanks in any event for the corrections and info. Good luck to you guys out there. Stay safe.

a reply to: tadaman

Why would you pay more for a new F-15 rather than buy a new F-35 for that role that costs less?

The F-35 wins every time, it's a far superior frame with better lifetime upgrade options and it could use it's superior sensor suite to further increase the value of F-15 flying with it.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Japan, Korea, Vietnam, and the Philippines are much better options for TAC air, but because they are even closer, they're even more vulnerable. And they aren't US territories like Guam, so politics would be a bigger question mark-- especially in the case of the Philippines.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I always try to find the usefulness of anything.

I want a fighter plane and bomber in every house!

I'm kidding. I do want us to pump out as much of everything on the armed forces wish list as possible and to be generous. Every branch should enjoy being the military of a wealthy nation. I feel our military gets used for sales more than it gets equipped to win.

I may be wrong. I know. I still see F-15s and F-16's flying far into the future in one form or another.

They are like a sword or a club. They just work. If things get complicated then nothing is eternal. Give them open skies and things get done.

That's just my eye for salvage talking. LoL

a reply to: RadioRobert

You make an excellent argument. I may be wrong.

a reply to: tadaman

If you could get the F-15 cheaper it makes sense. Here you have an inferior platform that costs more.

720p TV's still have their uses, but would you pay more than for one than a 4k TV?

a reply to: tadaman

The J-20 has a system similar to the F-35 EOTS. An IRST system will work to target stealth, but it still won't be a truly long range targeting. IRST is fun, because even a little bit of weather/cloud cover can affect it in a big way. I've seen a display of an IRST where a C-130 disappeared because there was a layer between the sensor and the aircraft. When you're doing a wide area search with IRST your range drops pretty significantly.

There are a lot of ways claimed that you can track stealth, but until the bullets are flying, there's no way to really tell. There are a number of systems on aircraft that don't ever get turned on, unless they're the only ones around and in a remote area, or someone is shooting at them. So the only way to know how effective they really are, short of getting our hands on that system to test against is to go against them in a real world scenario, with everything running.

a reply to: RadioRobert

That's one reason I tend to ignore them. While they are turning toward the West to help them against China now, there's no telling if they'd stay that way if a war started.

a reply to: Zaphod58

What are we betting gets cut for this stupidity?

a reply to: RadioRobert

Yes the previous administration really killed ties to the Philippines by not selling them arms.

a reply to: anzha

ABMS, and one of the tanker buys at a minimum. They aren't fighters, so the leadership doesn't give a damn about them.

a reply to: Xtrozero

From everything I've seen, it's far superior to anything flying. Class by itself, at least for the foreseeable future...as is, again, by all accounts, the F35 in it's designed roll--and it's pretty good outside that roll, too.

a reply to: Zaphod58
Could you really rely on anyone to back the US if the shooting starts with China?

a reply to: thebozeian

I barely count on us to fight if a war with China breaks out.

a reply to: thebozeian

Depends on what/where/why. I expect nothing from the west ( including us) but sympathize sounding, "concerned" voices on pretty much anything China does for the most part. They'd have to seriously misplay their hand to find themselves in a shooting war when we're so apt to roll over and avoid conflict.

originally posted by: seagull

From everything I've seen, it's far superior to anything flying. Class by itself, at least for the foreseeable future...as is, again, by all accounts, the F35 in it's designed roll--and it's pretty good outside that roll, too.

I was sitting down with a 2 star about 10 years ago who was a F-15 driver, he had just come back from Red Flag and he was pissed. He was pissed at the F-22 that he said basically cheated...cheated in just about everything we once thought was flying and air combat. He said it wasn't even close, even 4 F-15s against 2 raptors it was over before they even got started.