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Who is the party in America who wants war more.

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posted on Dec, 21 2018 @ 01:51 PM
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If you asked me that question a few years ago, it would have been easy, and I could have supported it with the votes from our legislators.

Now the question is tricky to answer. Obama talked a big game when it came to ending wars, but as they say the proof is in the pudding. He bombed 4 more countries than Bush, who really got the ball rolling for the MIC.

The question of this OP happens to be the one that typically dictates how I vote should I do my rare stray away from independent/third party.

When news broke that we would have talks with North Korea (with no concessions), I saw the media and even left leaning members here on ATS stop just short of saying they didn't want it because Trump was involved. I'm no fan of Trump, but my pride isn't so fickle I have to s### on everything he does. Jesus, if we can end a stupid war and avoid others, I'll say "cool, that's awesome".

Now with news we're going to leave Syria, I see the media and the left leaning members take a leap further than last time and say they don't want it, it's a bad decision (who knows, maybe it may be). But for the party that typically champions peace, where is this coming from? Neo-liberalism looks a lot like the Republican party to me except for that they are pro-choice and don't care if two dudes hook up or put a ring on each others finger.

From Obama to Hillary, I can't really tell the difference between the two establishment brands.

I suggest to the left that they get their house in order. The only way they have a chance in 2020 is if they sell us independents a candidate and their platform rather than run someone out as "they're not Trump".

I want there to be competition, it makes the best possible atmosphere for good things for everyone rather than just one side. Give Trump too much confidence, he has proven he'll roll things out only to appease his side. Put some pressure on him, and maybe we see him concede on a few issues to get more of the swing vote.

This wasn't written up to be sly or curt. This is serious advice. I only put it in the Mudpit to give the mods some relief as I could see this being a hot issue.




posted on Dec, 21 2018 @ 01:58 PM
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The old "Liberal vs. Conservative" divide is largely meaningless these days. The new divide is Globalist vs. Nationalist. Most of the leaders in Congress, in both parties, are globalists, while most of the common people are nationalists. Trump is a nationalist. The warmongers are globalists. Go back the last several decades and you'll see people with globalist thinking behind every war the US has become involved in.



posted on Dec, 21 2018 @ 02:01 PM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker

What you don't think an Irishman from Texas pretending to be Latino can beat Trump? What about a African American female who slept her way to the top? I am sure they have more choices, they just CANNOT be an old white male. Well unless Joe Biden runs. Everyone loves uncle Joe, especially shy little girls who have to be nibbled on and gently touched at every single opportunity that presents itself.

As to the anti war vote, I don't think either party is anti war in general. They both love war unless they aren't in control of it. Trump is an oddity, he isn't really Republican, nor is he Democrat, he is Trumpian I guess. I am happy as a clam that he keeps keeping his promises. And yes, I believe he is far more anti war than any one else in DC except for maybe Rand Paul.



posted on Dec, 21 2018 @ 02:01 PM
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Truth.

I've wondered that a time or two myself over the past two plus years...

Lessening of the strife between the US and North Korea seems like a good deal to me, but some because Trump is involved, it suddenly becomes a bad thing. Mostly "because Orange man bad".

They will deny it, of course...to no ones surprise.



posted on Dec, 21 2018 @ 02:04 PM
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a reply to: seagull

It's a shame. Without that pressure it makes war all to strong of a possibility.

The left hasn't offered that opposition since the days of Bush Jr.



posted on Dec, 21 2018 @ 02:06 PM
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Good question, OP.
Because Trump made it one of his goals to bring our soldiers home...Democrats are now pro-interventionism because "Orange Man Bad".

Honestly, if Trump said he wanted to find the cure for cancer...Dems would suddenly become pro-cancer.



posted on Dec, 21 2018 @ 02:07 PM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker

This made me think of a quote from Shelby Foote regarding the genesis of the American Civil War:
"It was because we failed to do the thing we really have a genius for, which is compromise. Americans like to think of themselves as uncompromising. Our true genius is for compromise. Our whole government's founded on it. And, it failed."

Our politicians, goaded on by the most radical of our citizens (on both sides of the aisle) refuse to compromise on just about anything and call it "standing for their principles" when in actuality it mostly boils down to trying to retain power through any means necessary. They feel that they can only retain power through appeasing the basest beliefs of their most vocal and radical supporters. These supporters are the easiest to appease and motivate as they see the world as black and white, as a zero sum game.

It is EASY not to compromise. It is difficult to find common ground on issues. It is difficult to decide to give up a little of this to gain a little of that, especially when your supporters are screaming for blood. Right now they are screaming for "their" blood, but steering the mob is a fickle thing. It is very easy to go from screaming for "their" blood to screaming for yours. "It's like holding a wolf by the ears. You don't like it, but you don't dare let it go." (paraphrased from Thomas Jefferson)



posted on Dec, 21 2018 @ 02:12 PM
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a reply to: IAMTAT


Good question, OP. Because Trump made it one of his goals to bring our soldiers home...Democrats are now pro-interventionism because "Orange Man Bad".


Funny what happens to people when their pride is stronger than their principles.

Most members know that I'm not a Trump fan or supporter, but it is just so odd to me how people can't be happy for things we all can benefit from.

A smaller American footprint across the globe, and a less aggressive foreign policy benefits everyone except for the MIC.



posted on Dec, 21 2018 @ 02:15 PM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker

The Uniparty wants war.


The Uniparty is compromised of republicans and democrats.


Took me too long to figure that sh#t out.



posted on Dec, 21 2018 @ 02:16 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Amen.

It doesn't help their campaigns are funded by the same deep pockets.



posted on Dec, 21 2018 @ 02:18 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy


I've got an extra yellow vest if you need one.



posted on Dec, 21 2018 @ 02:19 PM
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originally posted by: IAMTAT
a reply to: DBCowboy


I've got an extra yellow vest if you need one.


XXXXL please.



posted on Dec, 21 2018 @ 02:20 PM
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Neither party cares about the lives of American citizens. Republicans like Wars and Democrats like drugs and illegal aliens.



posted on Dec, 21 2018 @ 02:22 PM
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originally posted by: carewemust
Neither party cares about the lives of American citizens. Republicans like Wars and Democrats like drugs and illegal aliens.


Careful there...someone might call you a "Nationalist".



posted on Dec, 21 2018 @ 02:25 PM
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originally posted by: carewemust
Neither party cares about the lives of American citizens. Republicans like Wars and Democrats like drugs and illegal aliens.


Republicans like drugs too so long as they are illegal and they can have an unsuccessful war against them.



posted on Dec, 21 2018 @ 02:49 PM
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Imagine controlling all that oil and the strategic waterways through which much of global trade passes.

This is why Syria and Iran are so important to all sides of the geopolitical chessboard.



posted on Dec, 21 2018 @ 02:56 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: CriticalStinker

The Uniparty wants war.


The Uniparty is compromised of republicans and democrats.


Took me too long to figure that sh#t out.



+1 another amen.

Both of them are fully bought and paid for. Their words are meaningless, their actions tell everything. There is no way that deepstate/shadowGov/MIC would take the chance that one side would say 'no more' to their money making schemes.



posted on Dec, 21 2018 @ 03:04 PM
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originally posted by: BomSquad
a reply to: CriticalStinker

This made me think of a quote from Shelby Foote regarding the genesis of the American Civil War:
"It was because we failed to do the thing we really have a genius for, which is compromise. Americans like to think of themselves as uncompromising. Our true genius is for compromise. Our whole government's founded on it. And, it failed."

Our politicians, goaded on by the most radical of our citizens (on both sides of the aisle) refuse to compromise on just about anything and call it "standing for their principles" when in actuality it mostly boils down to trying to retain power through any means necessary. They feel that they can only retain power through appeasing the basest beliefs of their most vocal and radical supporters. These supporters are the easiest to appease and motivate as they see the world as black and white, as a zero sum game.

It is EASY not to compromise. It is difficult to find common ground on issues. It is difficult to decide to give up a little of this to gain a little of that, especially when your supporters are screaming for blood. Right now they are screaming for "their" blood, but steering the mob is a fickle thing. It is very easy to go from screaming for "their" blood to screaming for yours. "It's like holding a wolf by the ears. You don't like it, but you don't dare let it go." (paraphrased from Thomas Jefferson)



With the push for Globalism, by BOTH sides. I get very cautious when I do see them parading across the MSM pushing "Bi Partisan" votes for anything. I say that from my years watching them push division by party while also watching them BOTH push us further from our Constitutional roots when it comes Bipartisan votes for something that continues the end of our Republic.


While I agree hearty debate working towards a solution was the basis of our government, be very careful applauding these criminals when they finally do parade themselves on our televisions, patting themselves on the backs for finally doing so..



posted on Dec, 21 2018 @ 03:04 PM
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originally posted by: carewemust
Neither party cares about the lives of American citizens. Republicans like Wars and Democrats like drugs and illegal aliens.
Throughout history, an established power has never passively watched a rising power take its spot....
debt/economic crisis in the West and the great-power rivalries (US + EU versus Russia + China).

Putin is working with the Chinese, china is still working on systems where one can directly buy and sell oil in Yuan.

The owners of the federal reserves is the #1 party that loves funding a good war.



posted on Dec, 21 2018 @ 03:11 PM
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originally posted by: Fools
a reply to: CriticalStinker

What you don't think an Irishman from Texas pretending to be Latino can beat Trump? What about a African American female who slept her way to the top? I am sure they have more choices, they just CANNOT be an old white male. Well unless Joe Biden runs. Everyone loves uncle Joe, especially shy little girls who have to be nibbled on and gently touched at every single opportunity that presents itself.


Last I heard (last week) the top 3 Democratic choices are:

1. Joe Biden
2. Bernie Sanders
3. Robert (Beto) O'Rourke

Awesome diversity there


To be fair, Nancy Pelosi is starting to go senile. Maxine Waters is almost as crooked as the Clintons, and is also going senile. Sparticus and Oscario-Cortez are both just too dumb to take seriously, plus Sparticus is pretty obviously in the closet, which these days doesn't enamor him with either straights or gays. Sheila Jackson-Lee might have a chance, but it's just too hard to take her seriously in that ridiculous sequined cowboy hat she's always wearing. Creepy Uncle Joe is probably the best the Dems can do right now.







 
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