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SCI/TECH: HIV Rate Among U.S. Blacks Doubles in a Decade

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posted on Feb, 27 2005 @ 09:23 AM
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There is a lot of evidence showing that HIV-AIDS results when infectious prions team up with other infectious microbes. This helps explain the link between poverty and AIDS - poor people can't afford early treatment for super-imposed infections, which gives the HIV-AIDS mutations free reign to develop.

IMO - the press linking AIDS to race, without relevant information from epidemiology and molecular biology, is just more "blaming the victims" with a racial twist. Eugenics reborn.



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[edit on 27-2-2005 by soficrow]




posted on Feb, 27 2005 @ 02:24 PM
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Reporting facts is not blaming the victim, nor racism in any form. If the facts were not reported it would be construed as hiding a problem from a segment of the population for nefarious reasons.

And it is not always possible, or desirable, to list all research on a subject. Sometimes just getting the word out quickly is more effective.




posted on Feb, 27 2005 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
Reporting facts is not blaming the victim, nor racism in any form. If the facts were not reported it would be construed as hiding a problem from a segment of the population for nefarious reasons.

And it is not always possible, or desirable, to list all research on a subject. Sometimes just getting the word out quickly is more effective.





Agreed.


...My concern is the spin that says Blacks get more AIDS because they're inferior, immoral, drug addicts, etc - and just gloss over the real situation.



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posted on Feb, 27 2005 @ 02:28 PM
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Neither the press nor anyone else has linked HIV and race. What is reported is an epidemiological demograhphic. And yes, soficrow, we are getting the message. All illness is caused by prions and prions are a government plot.

[edit on 05/2/27 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Feb, 27 2005 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by soficrow
...My concern is the spin that says Blacks get more AIDS because they're inferior, immoral, drug addicts, etc - and just gloss over the real situation.


You're the one adding the value-laden terms. The incidence is higher among any group who practices high-risk behaviors. The incidence is highest in those who engage in high-risk behaviors, regardless of other demographic variables.

Those who are most likly to be killed or injured by automobiles are those who ride in automobiles, the occasional pedestrian not withstanding. A closer study of demographics and behavior might reveal that teenagers, speeders and intoxicated drivers and pedestrians are the groups who are most likely to be killed or injured in an automobile accident.

And that's not glossing over the real issue. That's more clearly defining the problem.


[edit on 05/2/27 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Feb, 27 2005 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by soficrow
...My concern is the spin that says Blacks get more AIDS because they're inferior, immoral, drug addicts, etc - and just gloss over the real situation.


You're the one adding the value-laden terms.





Hmm. Review the posts. I just synopsized.






The incidence is higher among any group who practices high-risk behaviors. The incidence is highest in those who engage in high-risk behaviors, regardless of other demographic variables.





The incidence is higher among people living in poverty, and exposed to high levels of inner city environmental contamination without medical insurance or access to medical care.

The focus is on high risk behaviors.


With respect to Africa - studies about 1 1/2 years ago clearly linked AIDS incidence to frequency of clinic visits and medical care - very strongly suggesting "iatrogenic" transmission.






And that's not glossing over the real issue.





Agreed. It's burying it completely.



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posted on Feb, 27 2005 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by soficrow

The incidence is higher among people living in poverty, and exposed to high levels of inner city environmental contamination without medical insurance or access to medical care.

With respect to Africa - studies about 1 1/2 years ago clearly linked AIDS incidence to frequency of clinic visits and medical care - very strongly suggesting "iatrogenic" transmission.



So, in the US, HIV infection is caused by not enough health care and in Africa it is casued by too much health care?

www.iatrogenic.org...


[edit on 05/2/27 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Feb, 27 2005 @ 06:58 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by soficrow

The incidence is higher among people living in poverty, and exposed to high levels of inner city environmental contamination without medical insurance or access to medical care.

With respect to Africa - studies about 1 1/2 years ago clearly linked AIDS incidence to frequency of clinic visits and medical care - very strongly suggesting "iatrogenic" transmission.



So, in the US, HIV infection is caused by not enough health care and in Africa it is casued by too much health care?

www.iatrogenic.org...


[edit on 05/2/27 by GradyPhilpott]




Yes - infectious prions are weird. ...and you have to understand they don't just infect prople and animals, but other microbes like viruses and bacteria too.

The spread in Africa seems mostly to come from medical involvement in childbirth, giving needles etc. - probably hard to stay hygienic without good facilities - almost ALL the new cases recorded came from women or children who had received free clinical care. Probably one of the reasons for the "conspiracy" charges. The situation does seem suspicious, but most likely the real problem is a lack of proper medical hygiene 'in the field.'

In the USA - prions are more likely to be created because of chemically and electrically contaminated environments - then once they're loose, conditions of poverty increase the likelihood they will become infectious and mutate - and result in diseases like AIDS, heart disease, diabetes or obesity. ...Early treatment of bacterial infections often stops new mutations in the body because the 'host' microbe is removed. ...Lack of treatment pretty much guarantees a new mutation will evolve



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[edit on 27-2-2005 by soficrow]



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 04:57 AM
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Originally posted by soficrow
The spread in Africa seems mostly to come from medical involvement in childbirth, giving needles etc.



That is false information.
The biggest cause of AIDS in Africa is unprotected sex.



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 05:11 AM
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What in the hell does healthcare have to do with catching aids zero deep?
How could better healthcare curb the spread of AIDS? t cant be cured, there is no vaccine, and nothng a doctor or medical professional can d once you catch it but try and help you live wth it as long as possible.There are three ways to catch AIDS. Sex, IV drug neddle sharing, and transfusions. It is nearly impossible to catch AIDS through blood trasfusions in the US today. How would healthcare stop anyone from having unprotected sex with multiple partners? Or sharing IV needles?

The fact is 99% of the time in america today if you have AIDS it is your fault Not the governments, not the healthcaqre sytem, not your preist, yours. Act like a whore you wll catch the HIV. Simple really.



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 05:11 AM
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Many if not most African cultures have a strange sort of monogamy, a sort of don't ask, don't tell thing. Husbands routinely sample other women, often the same one for long periods of time, and their wives often do the same. This just so happens to be the type of relationship with the greatest chance of spreading the disease. For some reason those who sleep with many women, each only one time, run a lesser chance of contracting HIV than someone who sleeps with two or three women many times each over the course of some years, even more so if those two or three people have two or three people of their own, and so on, and so on.

Anyone who knows Africa will tell you, the hardest part about educating over there is breaking cultural silence surrounding personal habits, and getting people to open up so you can help them. I have some experience with Rwanda and the missions working in the area. They have a very difficult time even persuading the young children not to swim in the local ponds, despite proof of parasites and horrible skin diseases. The children want to swim, they saw their older brothers do it, and they don't want to understand what you're trying to tell them. Tell them time and time again, and right in the water they go afterwards. When they get out, with a parasite wriggling under their skin, and you ask them "Why did you go in the water when I told you what was in there?" The answer you'll get will be simple, sublime, completely without a care, something like "I was hot."

The same exact problems exist with sex education and HIV/AIDS awareness. Take two hours to explain in depth why the villagers should have only one partner, and watch them laughing it off later, setting up their rendezvous for later with their mistress at the corner of the school building. There is no changing people, people must change themselves. I say teach them to fish, so to speak, and get the hell out before the whole continent implodes with poverty, disease, famine, war and death.



[edit on 28-2-2005 by WyrdeOne]



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 06:56 AM
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Yeah you might be right about poverty not being a major cause. Early detection no doubt helps a lot (if you know you have aids you won't go spreading it) but i did some research and was surprised to find that America actually has a larger percentage of people with aids than China and only 0.2% less than India. Can't really argue that people in these countries live in less poverty than people in the US. I was also surprised to see that the Ukraine has 2% of their population with aids while Romania which is next door has less than %0.1, Russia on the other hand has 0.9%. I had always thought that aids was much more prevelent in Asia than Eastern Europe but besides Vietnam most major Asian nations seem to have about 0.1%. South America also seems to have a reasonably large aids problem and Africa has the largest percentage of people with aids per captia according to the CIA world fact book's statistics.

www.cia.gov...

[edit on 28-2-2005 by Trent]



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
In Africa, where the AIDs epidemic is raging, many men refuse to wear condoms because they feel it makes them "less manly". So AIDS is spread because of unprotected sex.

africa is another story.
people die there of such old school diseases that would be wiped out in a normal western world in a matter of seconds with a single needle shot.
Africa Is Dying Slowly because of HIV virus and it is like that in most of the poor countries all over world.
and i think if the entire world would just give a little more help to the african people, there would be far less victims.



Let's face it, there are only a few ways to get AIDS. Unprotected sex, sharing needles, and tainted blood transfusions (very unlikely). So it comes down to behavior. And I find it very difficult to believe that in 2005 America that anyone above the age 14 is unaware of how to catch AIDS.
Behavior. If you want to prevent yourself from getting AIDS, act prudently.

i agree with you here!
thats why this topic puzzles me.
why are there so many HIV victims in america,
where people are really AWARE of the problems and the dangers of virus,
as opposed to africa, where most of people dont really know what a HIV virus really is.



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by jsobecky
In Africa, ... AIDS is spread because of unprotected sex.

Let's face it, there are only a few ways to get AIDS. Unprotected sex, sharing needles, and tainted blood transfusions (very unlikely). So it comes down to behavior. ...If you want to prevent yourself from getting AIDS, act prudently.

i agree with you here!
thats why this topic puzzles me.
why are there so many HIV victims in america,
where people are really AWARE of the problems and the dangers of virus,
as opposed to africa, where most of people dont really know what a HIV virus really is.




Granted, unprotected sex can cause AIDS - but there's a LOT more to the story.

The science shows that there are numerous vectors, well beyond personal behaviors. Yes you catch AIDS and other prion-related diseases through unprotected sex - but you also catch them by drinking contaminated water and consuming contaminated food.

Prions effects on the immune system and their ability to cause genetic mutations were recognized well before prions themselves were acknowledged officially.

Here's something I just wrote for DrH:

...For those who don't know: Proteins are the building blocks of life - there are millions of different proteins and the body creates each one on order, tailored to do a very specific job. Proteins build cells by using a lock and key principle - proteins are 'coded' genetically - every protein key fits a specific protein lock in a particular way, first to build cells, then tissues, organs and other body parts. Kind of like a biological puzzle, where the pieces are created exactly and only when they're needed.

Prions are "misfolded proteins" - they muck up the works because they weasel in where they don't belong, hijack the protein-building and cell-building processes, and take over the works by causing mutations first in the proteins, and then down the line.


FYI - even before prions were identified officially, their role in mucking up the immune system was well known. ...One of the main difficulties was that there were so many different ways that the muck up occurred, no one could sort it out. ...The big hold-up was that genetic dogma said the only thing that could determine protein production and formation was "genes." To even suggest anything is was tantamount to heresy. ...But wrong. Prions can and do determine protein formation - they hijack gene function and often, cause genetic mutations.

...Now it's known that prions adapt to new cells and particles by mutating and shape-shifting - into whatever form or "key" will fit a particular lock. ...Researchers keep finding new and different infected proteins - enzymes, proteases, kineases and in this case, a peptide. ...and the list keeps growing.


The "HLA-DR" system was identified very early on as the main pathway that prions use to access the immune system - and how they 'get in' to cause genetic mutations. ...Biologists, nephrologists and transplant doctors had world conferences in the early 1980's about HLA-DRw6


A few references from one of my HLA-DR files:

The genetics of the HLA system. McDevitt HO. J Rheumatol Suppl. 1983 Nov;10:50-3. PMID: 6319697

Reanalysis of the HLA-DRw6 complex. Schreuder GM, Parlevliet J, Termijtelen A, van Rood JJ. Tissue Antigens. 1983 Jan;21(1):62-74. PMID: 6601316

Monoclonal antibody identifies a new Ia-like (p29,34) polymorphic system linked to the HLA-D/DR region. Nature. 1981 Apr 16;290(5807):591-3. Nadler LM, Stashenko P, Hardy R, Tomaselli KJ, Yunis EJ, Schlossman SF, Pesando JM. PMID: 6163992

An HLA-D region restriction fragment length polymorphism associated with celiac disease. J Exp Med. 1986 Jul 1;164(1):333-8. Howell MD, Austin RK, Kelleher D, Nepom GT, Kagnoff MF. PMID: 3014038

DNA polymorphism of HLA class II genes in systemic lupus erythematosus. Tissue Antigens. 1994 Jan;43(1):34-7. Cowland JB, Andersen V, Halberg P, Morling N. Institute of Forensic Genetics, University of Copenhagen, Denmark. PMID: 7912858

HLA-DO polymorphism associated with resistance to type I diabetes detected with monoclonal antibodies, isoelectric point differences, and restriction fragment length polymorphism. J Exp Med. 1986 Sep 1;164(3):938-43. Schreuder GM, Tilanus MG, Bontrop RE, Bruining GJ, Giphart MJ, van Rood JJ, de Vries RR. PMID: 3462303

The new HLA-DRw6- and 8- associated HLA-Dw HAG specificity defined by homozygous typing cell 9W 1802. Analysis with primed lymphocyte typing clones. Tissue Antigens. 1984 Nov;24(5):292-301. Pawelec G, Muller C, Rehbein A, Balko I, Schunter F, Wernet P. PMID: 6085195

Different specificities of an HLA-DRw6 haplotype detected by alloreactive T lymphocytes. Hum Immunol. 1984 Dec;11(4):193-205. Myers LK, Ball EJ, Stastny P. PMID: 6210279

HLA-A, B, DR, and DQ antigens in black patients with severe chronic rheumatic heart disease. Circulation. 1987 Aug;76(2):259-61. Maharaj B, Hammond MG, Appadoo B, Leary WP, Pudifin DJ. PMID: 3475188

Analysis of the sheep MHC using HLA class I, II, and C4 cDNA probes. Immunogenetics. 1985;22(4):349-58. Chardon P, Kirszenbaum M, Cullen PR, Geffrotin C, Auffray C, Strominger JL, Cohen D, Vaiman M. PMID: 2997030

Human influenza virus-specific T helper cell clones can be restricted by MHC products different from serologically defined HLA-DR antigens. Tissue Antigens. 1983 Mar;21(3):238-45. Fleischer B. PMID: 6190261

The origin of HLA-DR"Br": exon 2 nucleotide sequence implicates possible gene conversion of DR1 by DR4-Dw10, DR5, or DRw6-Dw18. Hum Immunol. 1989 Nov;26(3):191-7. Bidwell JL, Bidwell EA, Sansom DM, Klouda PT, Bradley BA. PMID: 2575090

Analysis by molecular cloning of the human class II genes. Fed Proc. 1984 Dec;43(15):3025-30. Erlich H, Stetler D, Sheng-Dong R, Saiki R. PMID: 6094260

HLA-DRw6 as a risk factor for active cytomegalovirus but not for herpes simplex virus infection after renal allograft transplantation. Br Med J (Clin Res Ed). 1985 Sep 7;291(6496):619-22. Roenhorst HW, Tegzess AM, Beelen JM, Middeldorp JM, The TH. PMID: 2992676

Glycoprotein B from strain 17 of herpes simplex virus type I contains an invariant chain homologous sequence that binds to MHC class II molecules. Immunology. 2002 Sep;107(1):129-35. Sievers E, Neumann J, Raftery M, SchOnrich G, Eis-Hubinger AM, Koch N. Division of Immunobiology, Institute of Zoophysiology, University of Bonn, Germany. PMID: 12225371

Polymorphisms within the HLA-DRw6 haplotype. I. Restriction fragment length variation and its correlation with serology. The Journal of Immunology, Vol 134, Issue 5 3212-3217, Copyright © 1985 by American Association of Immunologists. ML Bosch, GM Schreuder, H Spits, A Termijtelen, MG Tilanus and MJ Giphart PMID: 2984285

HLA-DR2, -DR5, and DRw6 associated Dw subtypes correlate with HLA-DR beta and -DQ beta restriction fragment length polymorphisms. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 1986 May;83(10):3361-5. Font MP, Gebuhrer L, Betuel H, Freidel C, Dausset J, Cohen D. PMID: 3010292

Biochemistry of HLA-DRw6: evidence for seven distinct haplotypes. J Immunol. 1986 May 15;136(10):3767-72. Haziot A, Lepage V, Freidel AC, Betuel H, Degos L, Charron DJ. PMID: 3486222

Hypoxia inhibits human bladder smooth muscle cell proliferation: A potential mechanism of bladder dysfunction. Neurourol Urodyn. 2004;23(4):342-8. Galvin DJ, Watson RW, O'Neill A, Coffey RN, Taylor C, Gillespie JI, Fitzpatrick JM. Department of Surgery, Mater Misericordiae University Hospital, Conway Institute of Biomolecular and Biomedical Research, University College Dublin, Ireland. PMID: 15227652


And of course, the ever-present fibromuscular dysplasia (FMD):

"Fibro-muscular dysplasia is known to be more frequently associated with ... the presence of HLA-DRW6 antigen."
hyper.ahajournals.org... (1989)
medind.nic.in/jac/t03/i2/jact03i2p139.pdf (2003)
www.indegene.com/Car/FeatArt/indCarFeatArt25.html (2003)

Etiologic factors in renovascular fibromuscular dysplasia. A case- control study. Hypertension, Vol 14, 472-479, Copyright © 1989 by American Heart Association CN Sang, PK Whelton, UM Hamper, M Connolly, S Kadir, RI White, R Sanders, KY Liang and W Bias Outpatient Clinical Research Center, Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions, Baltimore, MD 21205.
MeSH terms: HLA-DR6 Antigen
HLA-DRw6; HLA-DR6; Antigen, HLA-DR6; HLA DR6 Antigen
Human immune-response, D-related antigen encoded by the D locus on chromosome 6 and found on lymphoid cells.



....HIV-AIDS is only one of a long list of epidemics caused by subclinical prion infections.

Blaming the victims - and saying epidemic infectious disease results primarily or solely from personal behavior is unjust.



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posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by soficrow
The science shows that there are numerous vectors, well beyond personal behaviors. Yes you catch AIDS and other prion-related diseases through unprotected sex - but you also catch them by drinking contaminated water and consuming contaminated food.

....HIV-AIDS is only one of a long list of epidemics caused by subclinical prion infections.

Blaming the victims - and saying epidemic infectious disease results primarily or solely from personal behavior is unjust.

damn.
i was not aware of that.
this HIV really is a VERY complicated virus.
but we are talking about HIV rate among u.s. blacks doubled.
i dont think they drink contaminated water and food.
they are not in africa.
so, why again are these numbers doubled?
why are the blacks in america any diffrent then the whites?
or the mexican?
or the indian population?
i dont get it.



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by soficrow
The science shows that there are numerous vectors, well beyond personal behaviors. Yes you catch AIDS and other prion-related diseases through unprotected sex - but you also catch them by drinking contaminated water and consuming contaminated food.

....HIV-AIDS is only one of a long list of epidemics caused by subclinical prion infections.

Blaming the victims - and saying epidemic infectious disease results primarily or solely from personal behavior is unjust.

damn.
i was not aware of that.
this HIV really is a VERY complicated virus.
but we are talking about HIV rate among u.s. blacks doubled.
i dont think they drink contaminated water and food.
they are not in africa.
so, why again are these numbers doubled?
why are the blacks in america any diffrent then the whites?
or the mexican?
or the indian population?
i dont get it.


African-americans tend to live in the inner city areas. Prion concentrations in the water supply and food supply could be higher. It could alos be dietary differences. It could also be immuno-related due to cycle-cell among blacks.



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah


Blaming the victims - and saying epidemic infectious disease results primarily or solely from personal behavior is unjust.


this HIV really is a VERY complicated virus.




HIV is most likely a multi-cross-species hybrid - involving prion-infected viruses and bacteria both - new strains result when the hybrid is exposed to new cells, chemical contamination, other infectious microbes or particles. It's how prions work. (prions are infectious proteins, see above for explanation of the biomechanics.)






but we are talking about HIV rate among u.s. blacks doubled. ...i dont think they drink contaminated water and food.




Absolutely they do - more so than people who can afford filtered water and air filters. ...Prion diseases incubate silently for decades - but when the victim is exposed to chemical or other contaminations, the disease mutates and progresses rapidly.






they are not in africa.
so, why again are these numbers doubled?





What's happening in Africa is different from what's happening to Blacks in the US - in Africa, there's evidence to suggest that medical services spread AIDS by lack of proper medical hygeine.

...In the States, we are seeing the predictable effect of an underlying disease that's been spreading for almost a hundred years - and one which involves the immune system and affects genetic function, both.





why are the blacks in america any diffrent then the whites?
or the mexican?
or the indian population?
i dont get it.




Prion diseases have different effects, and most of those effects or "symptoms" depend on genotype. ...So a Black with an underlying prion disease is more likely to get AIDS, while a white is more likely to get heart disease. ...It's all about the proteins - and yes, it's kinda complicated.

...Indians tend to get lupus or diabetes, Mexicans tend to get diabetes and obesity...

Point is - it's all the same underlying disease - just comes out differently depending on a) your genes; b) what kind of other diseases and contamination you're exposed to, like chemicals or radiation.

...Most of these diseases are worse in poor people because they're exposed to more environmental contamination and because they can't afford medical care to treat bacterial and viral infections before the microbes have a chance to "cross-breed" with the prions.


.



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 12:45 PM
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I cant believe Im doing this, but I am going to have to defend Grady on this one ( Yikes..............................)

First of all, what ""silly" sources has Grady quoted here? I do believe that USA today is not a "silly source". Nor are the other sources he quoted.

The HIV/AIDS rate is higher amongst blacks, and continues to climb. I can think of many reasons. One is the refusal to condoms by many black males. I dont know why its such a big deal for them, but several of my black friends in both high school and after always complained saying they would not wear them, they aint cool, only punk ass bitches wear em ect. This is why condom education isnt always a magic pill. Nor is the lack of access to medical care: free clinics are very common in poor neighborhoods.

Its comes down to personal responsibility, not beliving that some how govornment money and social welfare will do something about a plague.

Its not the system that needs changing, its the deadly and outmoded prejudices of people that must change. Another thing to remeber, many blacks still believe that HIV/AIDS is a gay disease, and homophobia amongst blacks is considered pretty acceptable, thus, more misconceptions.



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