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originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: toms54
lawmakers being influence by their religious convictions is a far cry from lawmakers writing laws that require those who do not have those same convictions to forfeit their rights. and if a governmental body allows on group to express their religious beliefs on public property, are they treating all religions equally if they do not allow other groups to do the same?
I think so, otherwise, how are they not sponsoring one religion over the others???
The Ten Commandments were put in our courts because our laws were influenced by them. The Congressmen, Senators, and Justices who served in the government at that time were Christians elected by a Christian populace to set up a rule of law that was influenced by Christianity.
In 1923, the words, "the Flag of the United States of America" were added. At this time it read:
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
In 1954, in response to the Communist threat of the times, President Eisenhower encouraged Congress to add the words "under God," creating the 31-word pledge we say today. Bellamy's daughter objected to this alteration. Today it reads:
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Christians built that society, and you are in fact oppressing them every time you tear down a cross, a statue, erase a phrase, or remove the ten commandments.
(2 Timothy 1:6-12)
16Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. 17But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 18And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
21And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 22And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
23But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
24The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. 25It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
It's historical revisionism, which is vandalism and evil.
You don't get a safe space, you're not entitled to feel comfortable, and if you don't like this country as it was founded and intended to be, please leave.
As far as I can tell, the right to life is not enough to prevent honor killings amongst those that practice Sharia law.
Maybe they just said that to the christians? It seems we have contradictory quotes. Maybe they were all just lieing politicians? A far more likely scenario.
originally posted by: peskyhumans
originally posted by: Woodcarver
God is not solely a christian concept, and many of the signers were adamantly against christianity, or at least, the divinity of jesus.
originally posted by: peskyhumans
originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: peskyhumans
Which of those “christian values” made it into our constitution?
Are you saying that those who signed the constitution or the bill of rights were all christians? Or that they were atheists?
I think you don’t know much about the creation of our country
The equality of all men before God is a Christian concept which is very present in our Constitution. The Constitution itself, a document that is above the legislation of man which extends inalienable rights to our citizenry, expresses the concept of a higher law that man cannot touch. Of course that doesn't stop corrupt government from wiping it's ass with it.
The vast majority of our founding fathers were Christian. A mix of Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Congregationalist, Quaker, Lutheran, Catholic, Huguenot, Methodist, Calvinist, and Puritan. Among others. There is a modern day attempt to rewrite our history by describing the founders as "Deists". Which they were, but that's an over-generalization. They were specifically Christian Protestants. Only a small handful were Catholic, and the vast majority of the settlers came to North America to escape religious persecution at the hands of the Catholic Church.
Why are you so argumentative? It's pretty clear from my first post that I said the USA was founded on Christian values and today is being destroyed by atheists. I know enough about the creation of our country.
They were definitely against the country being lead by christian values. The whole point of America was to take the religion out of the establishment and create a secular government which leads by reason and logic.
But we all know this.
Look up Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine, Andrew Jackson, john Adams, Thomas Jefferson
”The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”
Or this one
The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. ... But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding....
As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and I think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble...." (Carl Van Doren. Benjamin Franklin. New York: The Viking Press, 1938, p. 777.)
He died just over a month later on April 17.
You are cherry-picking a handful of quotes from letters they wrote to non-Christians. There is a vast swath of literature from the founders that make it clear they firmly established our nation on Christian principles.
“Statesmen, my dear Sir, plan and speculate for Liberty but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom securely stand.” (Letter to Zabdiel Adams, June 21, 1776)
“I answer, the general principles of Christianity, in which all those sects were united, and the general principles of English and American liberty, in which all these young men united, and which united all parties in America, in majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her independence. Now I will avow, that I then believed and now believe that these general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature and our terrestrial mundane system.” (Letter to Jefferson, June 28, 1813, in The Works of John Adams Second President of the United States, Vol. 10, 45-56)
“We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” (Message to Massachusetts’ military officers, October 11, 1798)
"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ." --The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
-Declaration of Independence, signed by Thomas Jefferson
“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern, which have come under my observation, none appear to me so pure as that of Jesus.” --to William Canby, Sept. 18, 1813
In 1779, as governor of Virginia, Thomas Jefferson signed a proclamation appointing a Day of Thanksgiving and Prayer: “Whereas … Congress … hath thought proper … to recommend to the several States … humbly to approach the throne of Almighty God … that he hath … been a shield to our troops in the hour of danger, pointed their swords to victory … and above all, that he hath diffused the glorious light of the Gospel, whereby, through the merits of our gracious Redeemer, we may become the heirs of his eternal glory
Thomas Jefferson also organized a Calvinist church in 1777 at Charlottesville.
Take your revisionist bull# and kindly shove it back up your ass.