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UK Orwellian Police State reasons for arresting "Nazi" couple are flawed

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posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 02:02 PM
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No they were jailed for being a member of National Action, a prescribed terrorist organisation. They broke the law in the same way that a member of Al-Qa'ida breaks the law in the UK by virtue of being a member of that organisation.

Its really that simple its got naff all to do with putting them in jail for calling their son Adolf or them owning some book but everything to do with them being a member of a terrorist organisation. They were not jailed for being scum-bag racist Nazi's ( in the literal sense of the word) who thought it was ok to dress their baby in KKK robes, they were jailed because they were part of a terrorist organisation. There where members of this same organisation recently who were jailed for attempting to stockpile weapons for a race-war. These are just people who were just sympathisers who had a few swaskias, these were active members of a terrorist organisation.

I don't know anyone in the UK who thinks its wrong to sentence these idiots to prison for what they supported like I said above their crime under the law was just the same as someone getting jailed for being a member of Al-Qa'ida. Yet I don't see the OP getting upset about that, nobody pretends thats some abhorrent example of the UK being some tyrannical state because we don't let members of ISIS just walk around the streets.

Really struggling to articulate just how stupid this thread is.....

Simple way to sort this out OP is with a simple question.

Do you believe these people should have been sent to prison and if so why do you hold that belief?
edit on 20-12-2018 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 02:04 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

Why do left wing posters simply make up their quotes?



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 02:11 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

How come we never hear about Al-Muhajiroun (which is far more active/deadly, both in the UK and globally)?

Why weren't they "banned" until 2016? Surely nothing political or involving Brexit/anti-immigration.

"the first far-right group to be proscribed since World War II"

And on that note, how many others have been "proscribed" since 2016 when this group was "proscribed" ?

Tough questions? Blame your government. These are there statements/policies/acts, not mine. I'm merely a curious Internet-goer seeking answers from those who should know them.



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 02:16 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: ScepticScot

Why do left wing posters simply make up their quotes?


Why do you cherry-pick conservative news articles to try to construct a false narrative about the UK government convicting someone for something that is not at all related to why they were actually convicted?

Could it be that you are trying to construct a false narrative? And in so doing, being less than truthful? Aren't you a right wing poster?

Gosh, right wingers and their lies. Tsk tsk.

/sarc

This has nothing to do with left wing/right wing crap. Your OP does a terrible job of explaining why they were actually arrested/convicted (in fact it lies about why they were convicted), but you chose to leave out the actual reasons, with the hope of people blindly agreeing with you without reading the article first in order to further divide opinion on government. Or some such nonsense, it seems.

Many people in this thread are showing you how ridiculous this is. It should be moved to the LOL or HOAX bin.



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 02:16 PM
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a reply to: dug88


overthrow of democracy


That isn't a bad thing. Democracy = mob rule.

" and the imposition of a Nazi-style state "

Are you sure of that? What exactly is a "nazi STYLE state" anyhow? Are they genuine National Socialists or not? Nazis were left wing, by the way.

Sure this group in question isn't just some right wing group similar to the alt-right but not actual Nazis? Keep in mind, leftist tools in this country have been falsely, maliciously, cowardly, disgustingly and intentionally mis-labeling Conservatives/libertarians/anti-immigrants/Nationalists/feminist skeptics/race baiting skeptics as "Nazis" for some time.

We need more information. More data. More evidence to draw a conclusion. The point is, the UK government claiming these people expressed "beliefs in a nazi like state" and "possessed certain books" isn't very confidence inspiring.

The UK government is every bit as fanatical, tyrannical and absurd than those they frequently (and hilariously) rail against. Don't they have some paranoid Russia fear mongering to catch up on? They haven't lost their minds over any Porton Down chemical false flag "accidents" lately.... they must not be feeling well. Must be all that lying and corruption of Western society.

edit on 12/20/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 02:17 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin


Why weren't they "banned" until 2016? Surely nothing political or involving Brexit/anti-immigration.

"the first far-right group to be proscribed since World War II"

And on that note, how many others have been "proscribed" since 2016 when this group was "proscribed" ?

Tough questions? Blame your government. These are there statements/policies/acts, not mine. I'm merely a curious Internet-goer seeking answers from those who should know them.


No easy questions...here's the answer:

en.m.wikipedia.org...(UK)


In November 2016, The Sunday Timesreported that National Action was supporting Thomas Mair, the murderer of the Batley and Spen Labour MP Jo Cox, posting "only 649 MPs to go!" on social media.[43] National Action also supported Mair personally, saying "don't let this man's sacrifice go in vain"[43] and altered its listing on Google to state: "Death to traitors, freedom for Britain!", a slogan Mair had said to a court when asked to give his name following Cox's murder.[2] The organisation also supported the Orlando gun homicide and has called for graphic and violent attacks on police officers in the UK.[43][

edit on 20/12/2018 by dug88 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 02:17 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

List of Prescribed Groups and Organisation.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk...



National Action




National Action - Proscribed December 2016 National Action is a racist neo- Nazi group that was established in 2013. It has a number of branches across the UK, which conduct provocative street demonstrations and stunts aimed at intimidating local communities. Its activities and propaganda materials are particularly aimed at recruiting young people. The group is virulently racist, anti -Semitic and homophobic.

Its ideology promotes the idea that Britain will inevitably see a violent ‘race war’, which the group claims it will be an active part of. The group rejects democracy, is hostile to the British state and seeks to divide society by implicitly endorsing violence against ethnic minorities and perceived ‘race traitors’ National Action ’s online propaganda material, disseminated via social media, frequently features extremely violent imagery and language. It condones and glorifies those who have used extreme violence for political or ideological ends.

This includes tweets posted by the group in 2016, in connection with the murder of Jo Cox(which the prosecutor described as a terrorist act), stating “Only 649 MPs to go” and a photo of Thomas Mair with the caption “don’t let this man’s sacrifice go in vain” and ”Jo Cox would have filled Yorkshire with more subhumans!”, as well a s an image condoning and celebrating the terrorist attack on the Pulse nightclub in Orlando and another depicting a police officer’s throat being slit. The images can reasonably be taken as inferring that these acts should be emulated and therefore amount to the unlawful glorification of terrorism.



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 02:18 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

Hmmmm can't help but notice how you dodged my question.....



How come we never hear about Al-Muhajiroun (which is far more active/deadly, both in the UK and globally)?


We do hear about them, they are also a banned group so being a member of Al-Mauhajiroun would also land you some jail time in the UK in much the same way as being a member of national action.

Its a prescribed group because it is, six members were sentenced not long ago because they were planning to stockpile weapons and start a race-war. The two idiots in your OP were linked to them as a matter of fact. The killer of Joe Cox was also connected to the group. Basically they are a terrorist group and thats the end of it. We have other groups that are seen as being far right that are not prescribed terrorist organisations that you can join up to if you would like, can't help but feel like you might be in good company if this thread is anything to go by.

The issue fundamentally is this.

These two were members of National Action a prescribed terrorist group and as such they were jailed for being part of that group.

Do you think that on this basis it was right or wrong to send them to prison?



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 02:21 PM
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a reply to: alldaylong

Appeal to authority? Come on...



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 02:22 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

On that basis alone, it is the right call.

But the book banning is concerning (which I realize isn't apparently directly related in this instance)

Please don't mistake my line of questioning as sympathy or support for them or their organization. Assuming they are genuine Swastika toting Nazi terrorists, I agree with what happened to them. But will they be alone? Can the government target others by simply listing them in that proscribed groups list? I am genuinely curious, I have very little knowledge of UK law/politics


edit on 12/20/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 02:25 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

On that basis alone, it is the right call.

But the book banning is concerning (which I realize isn't apparently directly related in this instance)

Please don't mistake my line of questioning as sympathy or support for them or their organization. Assuming they are genuine Swastika toting Nazi terrorists, I agree with what happened to them. But will they be alone? Can the government target others by simply listing them in that proscribed groups list? I am genuinely curious, I have very little knowledge of UK law/politics



Ok so based on this then you're actually now saying dam right they should have been sent down but your issue is the banning of a book?

Might want to write a thread about book banning then because to me it seems like you might have totally misinterpreted this story. I mean even your title then is totally wrong because of how you misunderstood the conviction.

As for your question about the government targeting people again, its not naff all to do with the government and everything to do with the independent judiciary and police who target these individual. They are targeted because of their membership of that group, the CPS need to prove they are members of the group to get a conviction so no, the government can't just say dave from down the road who has said some not very nice things about Brexit is a member of National action and jail him.

edit on 20-12-2018 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-12-2018 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I appreciate your reply


Ok so based on this then you're actually now saying dam right they should have been sent down but your issue is the banning of a book?


I don't believe anyone deserves jail time for simply holding unpopular beliefs. But membership to a genuine terrorist group is different (assuming it is actual terrorism, ie: violence with political aims)

The problem is, have groups like antifa (which also commits violence for political aims) and others made it into this same category?

The book banning, regardless of what readily-available-anyhow information it contains, is over the line. At least by my own standards it is


Might want to write a thread about book banning then because to me it seems like you might have totally misinterpreted this story. I mean even your title then is totally wrong because of how you misunderstood the conviction.


Perhaps. I did assume they were being labeled terrorists because of their beliefs. I was not aware it was due to membership in an active terrorist group.


They are targeted because of their membership of that group, the CPS need to prove they are members of the group to get a conviction so no, the government can't just say dave from down the road who has said some not very nice things about Brexit is a member of National action and jail him.


That is the problem though OSOTC. What stops them from simply listing the "anti Brexit" crowd as a particular group and then targeting said group? Here in the States, we don't do "guilt by association." You either broke the law or you didn't, but one is never guilty for simply being a member to any particular group (with a potential, largely untested narrow exception for treason, in the case of foreign enemies)

I understand what you are saying, but what prevents the government from unilaterally declaring some arbitrary group a "terrorist organization" and then taking punitive action against its members?

Certainly wouldn't be the first time such a thing has happened in this World...
edit on 12/20/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 02:48 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: ScepticScot

Why do left wing posters simply make up their quotes?


Got an example or did you just make that up ( the irony would be delicious).



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 03:03 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I appreciate your reply


Ok so based on this then you're actually now saying dam right they should have been sent down but your issue is the banning of a book?


I don't believe anyone deserves jail time for simply holding unpopular beliefs. But membership to a genuine terrorist group is different (assuming it is actual terrorism, ie: violence with political aims)

The problem is, have groups like antifa (which also commits violence for political aims) and others made it into this same category?

The book banning, regardless of what readily-available-anyhow information it contains, is over the line. At least by my own standards it is


Might want to write a thread about book banning then because to me it seems like you might have totally misinterpreted this story. I mean even your title then is totally wrong because of how you misunderstood the conviction.


Perhaps. I did assume they were being labeled terrorists because of their beliefs. I was not aware it was due to membership in an active terrorist group.


They are targeted because of their membership of that group, the CPS need to prove they are members of the group to get a conviction so no, the government can't just say dave from down the road who has said some not very nice things about Brexit is a member of National action and jail him.


That is the problem though OSOTC. What stops them from simply listing the "anti Brexit" crowd as a particular group and then targeting said group? Here in the States, we don't do "guilt by association." You either broke the law or you didn't, but one is never guilty for simply being a member to any particular group (with a potential, largely untested narrow exception for treason, in the case of foreign enemies)

I understand what you are saying, but what prevents the government from unilaterally declaring some arbitrary group a "terrorist organization" and then taking punitive action against its members?

Certainly wouldn't be the first time such a thing has happened in this World...


I agree with some of this.

1. Book banning = stupid.
2. No one deserves jail time for holding fringe beliefs. If that were the case, anyone who has ever thought of killing/harming a person would go to jail for assault. That's ridiculous.

However, your comparison of antifa to this situation isn't a good comparison. Antifa isn't officially recognized as a terrorist organization by our government. Should they be? That's up for debate. But, as of now, they aren't, which means it isn't a relevant comparison.

Also, here in the USA, we definitely do "guilt by association". If someone claims to be a member of ISIS, al-qaeda, etc, they are most definitely guilty by association, regardless of whether that individual has actually bombed/shot up a place yet.



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 03:20 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

A few points.

In America if you're a member of Al-Qa'ida then your heading to jail.

Now in the UK Antifa isn't really a issue so your point about the being a terrorist group or whatever is for me a mute point.

Lastly, the UK establishment is never going to turn round and just start labelling brexiteers as terrorists. I know what you're saying whats to stop them doing it but the answer is quite simply that its one of those things that just wouldn't happen.
edit on 20-12-2018 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 03:24 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin




Lastly, not the UK establishment is never going to turn round and just start labelling brexiteers as terrorists. I know what you're saying whats to stop them doing it but the answer is quite simply that its one of those things that just wouldn't happen


Brexiteers are a result of the 2016 referendum.

The Government are hardly going to label them as terrorists since they where created by a government organised vote.



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 03:27 PM
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I wonder how the US government views Nazi sympathizers now. Back during WW2 they were viewed as traitors.
I feel the same way. I have relatives that fought and died trying to rid the planet of that human scum.
edit on 20-12-2018 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 04:08 PM
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a reply to: gortex

Isn’t the UK one of the countries that let iSIS people back in?

UK will stop facism by becoming fascist

About 15 years ago, I met a gay black guy named Adolf. When he told me his name, I thought he was Efen with me


www.google.com... reat-debate-terror-a8017811.html%3famp



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 04:16 PM
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They were arrested for being members of National Action, a proscribed group in the UK, just like the various flavours of IRA, UVF, IS etc.

And was one of them really called Patatas? Damn hahaha.

Should marry someone called Bravas.



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 05:04 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12
I wonder how the US government views Nazi sympathizers now. Back during WW2 they were viewed as traitors.
I feel the same way. I have relatives that fought and died trying to rid the planet of that human scum.


And after the war, we paperclipped that human scum into the country so they could make weapons, continue experimenting on humans, and teach us their propaganda techniques. Governments only have a problem with low level Nazis.




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