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UK Orwellian Police State reasons for arresting "Nazi" couple are flawed

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posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 12:55 PM
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Thomas and Patatas led a not-so-secret double life, one working as an Amazon security guard and the other as a wedding photographer, while preaching neo-Nazi beliefs



The couple gave their son the middle name “Adolf” in admiration of the German dictator



Thomas was also found guilty of having the book Anarchist’s Cookbook


"preaching"
"beliefs"
"admiration"
"found guilty of having the book"

Looks to me like they have been jailed not for victimizing anyone or causing actual harm, but for their individual beliefs and possession of some kind of book.

Anyone else see a problem with this? I find it unusual how tolerant UK "authorities" have become of crimes by Islamists (such as mass rape, knife attacks, acid attacks, etc) while thoroughly attacking/victimizing any person who merely holds unpopular views.

You don't have to approve of someone's beliefs to recognize that a State's power to infringe on their beliefs/certain books (how petty/weak) harms every person's individual right to choose their own beliefs and have access to information without State interference.

www.foxnews.com...



+4 more 
posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 01:00 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

They are members of a proscribed terrorist organisation implicated in the murder of a British MP , membership of the group is in itself is illegal just as membership of any terror group.
I have no problem with their incarceration.



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 01:04 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

Posession of books? Laws from the dark ages?
Wtf?
That's just wrong, we can't start, (or allow to continue) arrests for opinions. That's not "free". Is the UK not free?

a reply to: gortex

Is that true?

edit on 20-12-2018 by Peeple because: Add



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 01:15 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

Way to cherry pick the article to fit your narrative.
Either way yes I would agree with your narrative but since they are charged with serious connections to terror groups then F-em.



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 01:20 PM
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a reply to: gortex

But Is group membership/collective punishment suddenly acceptable?

Do we punish folks for merely being "members of a group" vs. actual proscribed criminal conduct that results in individual victimization?

Don't get me wrong, I find their ideology absurd and offensive (Jewish relatives). But if we start targeting people for their beliefs we start down a slippery slope that doesn't lead to a good place (it resembles that nightmare the Nazi's wanted to build.....)

And the "banned book" part? That is overboard no matter what context it is in. I suppose I should be thankful we protect free speech/press here, but I can't help but wonder if average Brits are truly aware of what direction they are permitting the government/far left to drag them in



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 01:20 PM
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theres a reason why the collective world sought to kill all the nahhhsiz from yesteryear.

theres enough shlite for us to worry about in the world today. lets not bring nazz#s into the equations. I'd attach their 4 limbs to 4 horses pulling in different directions, along woth pedos... theyre the same scum.



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 01:22 PM
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a reply to: Allaroundyou

I included the OP, my point was that in any context the State targeting an individual over their "beliefs, membership and books" is absurd and tyrannical

My problem is a government who believes it has the right to control not just the information you have access to, but also the beliefs you as an individual choose.

"First they came for the...."



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 01:25 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: gortex

But Is group membership/collective punishment suddenly acceptable?

Do we punish folks for merely being "members of a group" vs. actual proscribed criminal conduct that results in individual victimization?

Don't get me wrong, I find their ideology absurd and offensive (Jewish relatives). But if we start targeting people for their beliefs we start down a slippery slope that doesn't lead to a good place (it resembles that nightmare the Nazi's wanted to build.....)

And the "banned book" part? That is overboard no matter what context it is in. I suppose I should be thankful we protect free speech/press here, but I can't help but wonder if average Brits are truly aware of what direction they are permitting the government/far left to drag them in


Yes, we do.

If there were members of ISIS living openly in the UK (or the US), advertising their beliefs, etc. they'd be punished, even if they hadn't committed any violence yet.

They are members of a horrible organization that has been banned from the UK. They are literal Nazis. They deserve to be punished.

Also, I agree with Allaroundyou, you really cherry-picked that article.



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 01:26 PM
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a reply to: odzeandennz

Don't get me wrong, I tend to agree with your sentiments

However, sometimes playing Devil's advocate can be a helpful exercise (at least for me it seems to help with understanding some time)

Seeing a government decide what someone can/can not believe or express and what books they can own or knowledge they can know is personally beyond my comfort level. Authoritarianism is a real problem, but in my personal view government tyranny or overreach is an equally grave danger

This is no different than a government persecuting Citizens for lying to it while simultaneously lying to its masters (the Citizens) as a matter of policy



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 01:26 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Allaroundyou

I included the OP, my point was that in any context the State targeting an individual over their "beliefs, membership and books" is absurd and tyrannical

My problem is a government who believes it has the right to control not just the information you have access to, but also the beliefs you as an individual choose.

"First they came for the...."


I agree with you 100% on that.
My only grief is the connections they had to terror groups. And that they found a crossbow next to a crib.....not cool.
Funny but not cool.



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 01:26 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Allaroundyou

I included the OP, my point was that in any context the State targeting an individual over their "beliefs, membership and books" is absurd and tyrannical

My problem is a government who believes it has the right to control not just the information you have access to, but also the beliefs you as an individual choose.

"First they came for the...."



Why do right wing posters never use the full quote...



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 01:28 PM
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Probably the same reason why left wingers don't use their head.



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 01:30 PM
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originally posted by: Muninn
Probably the same reason why left wingers don't use their head.


Or may be you could try something that makes sense?



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 01:35 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

Have you seen what happens in your own country ?





A U.S. comic book collector is being sentenced to six months in prison after pleading guilty to importing and possessing Japanese manga books depicting illustrations of child sex and bestiality.



www.wired.com...

Publications that are offensive to the masses have to be banned, and rightly so.

Otherwise you may as well kiss goodbye to a decent civilisation.



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 01:35 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

Thanks man, didn't know the conservatives were a far left political group.

I learn something new every day



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 01:38 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

I don't know about the UK. I wouldn't be surprised if their laws are similar.

But the US has arrested and charged (not sure about convicted) people trying to join Al Queda.


edit on 20-12-2018 by watchitburn because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 01:40 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

Some type of book!


The Anarchists Cookbook has been banned for decades. It teaches how to make firearms, explosives, etc through to making '___'.



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 01:40 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Muninn
Probably the same reason why left wingers don't use their head.


Or may be you could try something that makes sense?


If you extrapolate the joke, Muninn just said that right wingers are dumb.

The same reason left wingers don't use their head...I'm assuming that meant he thinks left wingers are dumb, but right wingers use the same reason to not use the full quote, i.e., they're dumb.

Gave me a chuckle.



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 01:56 PM
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a reply to: JBurns




But Is group membership/collective punishment suddenly acceptable?

Is membership of an organization who are willing to kill to make their point acceptable ?
If they were members of Al Qaeda or any of the many Islamist organizations would you feel a wrong has been done ?

Extremists are extremist.



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 01:58 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

Hmmm you could always post the part about what they were actually found guilty of....


Thomas and Patatas were found guilty for being members of National Action, a far-right neo-Nazi organization in the United Kingdom that was banned in 2016. Judge Melbourne Inman QC, who handed down the sentence, said the group had “horrific aims.”

"Its aims and objectives are the overthrow of democracy in this country by serious violence and murder, and the imposition of a Nazi-style state which would eradicate whole sections of society by such violence and mass murder," the judge said.



Also...you left that last sentence out there on the book part...


Thomas was also found guilty of having the book Anarchist’s Cookbook — considered a terrorist manual that had instructions to make “viable bombs,”



Oh and this little part at the end


Thomas and Patatas were among six people sentenced Tuesday. Daniel Bogunovic, 27, was also found guilty and sentenced to six years and four months in prison. Three other people previously pleaded guilty to being in the organization.


Sounds to me like they arrested terrorists for being terrorists....

Though...on a side note...anyone that makes something from the anarchist's cookbook is asking to have their hands or face blown off....don't trust the # in that book...
edit on 20/12/2018 by dug88 because: (no reason given)







 
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