Trump wants to pull all US troops from Syria

originally posted by: bluesilver
The question for people who back Trump's view in all this is, why do you choose to follow his opinion rather than the person who is an expert in it and who has more in-depth knowledge of the complexities of the entire situation than Trump? Syria is the headline but it isn't the only part of the issue here, it is the working partnership with other countries, not just in this fight now, but in other fights also now and in the future. Pulling out and doing it without informing other countries who you are working with, who you are supposed to be allies with, is not only going to damage the reputation of America, but also diminish it's ability to work with fellow nations whose relationships with the US are supposed to be vital. Trump is known to be impulsive and goes from his gut, and that might be fine when it comes to business as he has history with that (ignoring the many times he has been bankrupt) but he has zero knowledge of military and security affairs and their complexities.

Do you think Iraq/Afghanistan/Northern Africa wars have been good for America? Do you think the Patriots Act was/is good? Do you think all this still going on after 15 or so years is good? Also remember when we say "allies" it is still about 90% all America...the allies part is to just put a stamp of approval from other nations, but we are talking about the vast majority is still all American operations, cost etc.

Remember, Mattis' entire career is based around serving the United States and its President. You can't get much more of a patriot than a 4 Star General. He is the one person who knows everything there is to know about the general security of America and what it needs to do both short term and long term. If he feels so strongly that he prefers to resign than follow what his commanding officer is doing, I think that speaks volumes.

I had close to 30 years in when I retired and I had a two star tell me one time that most stay in the military to feed their egos. A 4 star is about as close as one person can get to demigod status as anyone on earth, so I'm not going to say he is more of a patriot than a guy who just puts in 4 years. Mattis is a person that lives by the sword, has always lived by the sword and will die by the sword. I know because I am the same, war is great for me, and where I make ALL my income...yea me!!

Remember Kennedy went against all his military advisers over the Cuban crisis. They all were itching go to deadly war with Russia, to include nukes. Kennedy was the one person to say no in a sea of yeses...

Trump is either a more insightful and wise man than those who are experts in their field, or he's just an impulsive, politically motivated idiot. He can't be both.

He can also be neither as in he sees the cost and the return on that cost to America and the cost was way too much with little or no return. Is that the path you want to continue? Well I do since I'm in the war business...

You seem to like quotes and so here is one...

a reply to: Xtrozero

Thank you!

Something the uninitiated will never understand.

War is good for the career soldier but bad for everyone else. A real warrior recognizes that.

Soldiers can't and should not make policy. As a soldier, my view of war is different than that of civilians, but in our country, we are subservient to civilian authority and that authority has to do what is right for the American people, not the soldier who makes his living in the fight.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Extorris

So youre a never trumper and Mattis is a war monger.

Mattis is a War Monger?

I may be new around here, but the search function doesn't seem complicated.

Were these your posts when Mattis was chosen?

Your opinion seems not credible or original, but simply a partisan drone of the President's.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Annee

He has a proven track record of caring for his Marines, pursuing and implementing policy to ensure his Marines had what they needed to do their jobs.

He was a staunch defender of his Marines. Strong leader and did not mince words. He didn't speak like a politician as most flag officers do, and ensured his Marines were informed, equipped, and trained to be deadly, fast, and victorious.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: ugmold

This is exactly the kind of man I want at the helm of the DOD.

originally posted by: projectvxn


Also, if you've never served you wouldn't understand why he's so popular across ALL services of the military.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Pyle



He has the respect of not just the Marine Corp, but every other branch. He's well trusted among the troops and for good reasons.

You and I will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

originally posted by: Xtrozero


Do you think Iraq/Afghanistan/Northern Africa wars have been good for America?

Do you think Iraq/Afghanistan/Northern Africa wars have been good for ISIS?

War is not good for anyone.

Do you believe this messy, premature withdraw is good for Russia and Iran?

Vladimir Putin very much thinks so.

a reply to: Extorris

None of those opinions have changed. I like Mattis, but his policy to stay in the ME forever isn't good.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Extorris

None of those opinions have changed. I like Mattis, but his policy to stay in the ME forever isn't good.

That wasn't his policy.

originally posted by: Extorris

originally posted by: Xtrozero


Do you think Iraq/Afghanistan/Northern Africa wars have been good for America?

Do you think Iraq/Afghanistan/Northern Africa wars have been good for ISIS?

War is not good for anyone.

Do you believe this messy, premature withdraw is good for Russian and Iran? Vladimir Putin very much thinks so.

We've known for several years now (since early in the Obama Administration) that our presence in the Middle East creates more terrorists than it removes. Drone strikes, in particular, create several new terrorists for every one they kill, because of the widespread civilian casualties they tend to cause.

a reply to: Extorris

Don't be obtuse.

Mattis wants to pursue a policy of never-ending war.

Trump doesn't.

I will go with Trump on this one. Just because I respect James Mattis doesn't mean I have to agree with him. Also, I reserve the right to change my mind with new evidence and information.

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan

originally posted by: Extorris

originally posted by: Xtrozero


Do you think Iraq/Afghanistan/Northern Africa wars have been good for America?

Do you think Iraq/Afghanistan/Northern Africa wars have been good for ISIS?

War is not good for anyone.

Do you believe this messy, premature withdraw is good for Russian and Iran? Vladimir Putin very much thinks so.

We've known for several years now (since early in the Obama Administration) that our presence in the Middle East creates more terrorists than it removes.

Drone strikes, in particular, create several new terrorists for every one they kill, because of the widespread civilian casualties they tend to cause.

Iraq war #1? Every war before that? Drone strikes kill less civilians than missiles or bombs or suicide terrorists.

We can argue for zero civilian casualties, but we both would know that is a false paradigm in the context of war.

Back to Syria where as recently as 8 days ago Russia demanded we exit and abandon the civilians and allied locals that we promised to protect and train in trade for their help.

This is not a conversation about exit or no exit. This is a message by President Trump that no locals anywhere on earth should ever trust US Forces again and the United States promises to global allies when we ask for support and help are worthless. President Trump is destroying the United States credibility in the world. He is signaling the world that the United States's word is worthless.

We will withdrawal and the Kurdish Forces and civilian communities that sheltered them will be obliterated by Assad and Russia in bombing campaigns and likely more chemical weapons campaigns so that Assad can re-purpose and use the buildings after the locals are done convulsing in the streets. Men, women and children that we promised to protect.

I am disgusted to my core by my President groveling to Russian demands and sacrificing thousands of lives of allied locals, at the behest of Vladmir Putin, that trusted us.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Extorris

I will go with Trump on this one. Just because I respect James Mattis doesn't mean I have to agree with him. Also, I reserve the right to change my mind with new evidence and information.

Then you best keep a close eye on President Trump's twitter feed so your know when to change you mind next.

originally posted by: Extorris

Do you think Iraq/Afghanistan/Northern Africa wars have been good for ISIS?

War is not good for anyone.

Do you believe this messy, premature withdraw is good for Russian and Iran? Vladimir Putin very much thinks so.

One needs to wonder how much of ISIS was self inflicted by our wars in the first place, how much of ISIS was propaganda of the military complex, how much of ISIS would have zero impact in the US if we didn't get involved in the first place. Was ISIS worth spending 4 trillion and 1000s of American lives and 10,000s of Americans with lifetime injuries?

15 years is premature? As to Yemen, it has been a Saudi war, not ours...we just supported them, but they do things that are on the level of war crimes and so what do you want to do? They are lobbing scuds from Yemen into Saudi, should that be our problem too?

a reply to: Extorris
The problem in Syria is: an independent Kurdish state was never in the cards. Turkey will invade them to keep it from happening. Everyone involved -- including the Kurdish leaders -- have known this all along. The only way to make it work is by keeping a large US force garrisoned there indefinitely. (Just like has happened in Afghanistan.) Trump doesn't want that, and frankly most Americans agree with him. Getting us out of Syria was one of Trump's campaign promises. We squashed the Kurds' plans in Iraq precisely because we don't want to have to keep US troops there forever.

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan
a reply to: Extorris
The problem in Syria is: an independent Kurdish state was never in the cards. Turkey will invade them to keep it from happening. Everyone involved -- including the Kurdish leaders -- have known this all along. The only way to make it work is by keeping a large US force garrisoned there indefinitely. (Just like has happened in Afghanistan.) Trump doesn't want that, and frankly most Americans agree with him. Getting us out of Syria was one of Trump's campaign promises. We squashed the Kurds' plans in Iraq precisely because we don't want to have to keep US troops there forever.

The Kurds are one of those things that we've just been so wishy washy on over the years. We're always supposedly supporting them but we never go all in. We left them hanging in Iraq several times over the decades and now we're gonna leave them hanging again.

Strategically, there's nothing left for us to accomplish in Syria. Assad has won. Any realistic chance to get rid of Assad went out the window when Russia got involved. The only "legitimate" reason to stay was to keep battling ISIS, but if we're saying ISIS is defeated, we have no more reason to be there.

ETA: On a related note, I'd love to know how this figures into the conspiracy theorists belief about the supposed plan to run that pipeline through Syria.

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan
a reply to: Extorris
The problem in Syria is: an independent Kurdish state was never in the cards. Turkey will invade them to keep it from happening.

Right. The plan now is for the US to rapidly exit, Russia and Assad to bomb the Kurdish and local civilians into oblivion and for Turkey to finish off any survivors that flee for the border.

Thousands of innocent deaths of people who trusted American soldiers and aided them, all because a man who evaded serving his country in war 5 times, via fraudulent doctor letters, sending other young men in his stead, seeks the approval of foreign despots and dictators.

THAT is how we treat those that help us and THAT is how we deliver on our promises to protect them.

Alternatively we can behave as the beacon of freedom and honor and maintain our word.
Russia would not dare directly challenge us in the region.
Our simple presence saves lives of men, women and children and we promised them we would protect them.
Assad needs to negotiate peace as long as we are there.
What we are doing is offering allies up for slaughter to satisfy the demands of otherwise weak despots.

We do not belong in Syria. We do not belong as a threat to Russia. Russia was our god damn allies in ww2. Blame the future presidents for the rift in relationships. The US should be as close to the UK as it is to Russia...


I don't know what caused the bull#... but seriously... time to recognize allies as allies and start working together to get humanity off this # hole rock we call earth.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
We do not belong in Syria. We do not belong as a threat to Russia. Russia was our god damn allies in ww2. Blame the future presidents for the rift in relationships. The US should be as close to the UK as it is to Russia...


I don't know what caused the bull#... but seriously... time to recognize allies as allies and start working together to get humanity off this # hole rock we call earth.

Does this sound like Russia is our Ally ? Not to me...sounds like putin chumped out trump once again.

www.thedailybeast.com...

a reply to: Extorris

Then you best keep a close eye on President Trump's twitter feed so your know when to change you mind next.

No worries, I'll stick with the guy who wants to end pointless wars. You can keep your dumbass orange man bad BS and support more war if you want to. History will prove the peacemakers right in this case.

a reply to: 2012newstart

I agree. It makes me wonder if Trump is privy to information. Such as Al Assad is going to start dropping nukes.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Extorris

Then you best keep a close eye on President Trump's twitter feed so your know when to change you mind next.

No worries, I'll stick with the guy who wants to end pointless wars. You can keep your dumbass orange man bad BS and support more war if you want to. History will prove the peacemakers right in this case.

"orange man bad" is number one on the the most recent distributed talking points.
good of you to keep to script and not risk actual independent thought.

not sure how this zombie story ends, but my wish is a plot where the zombies are cured rather than simply collapse en-mass once the head zombie falls.

originally posted by: Lynzer
a reply to: 2012newstart

I agree. It makes me wonder if Trump is privy to information. Such as Al Assad is going to start dropping nukes.

Gas, not nukes. Assad is a transactional sociopath, like others. Assad hopes to re-purpose the buildings and dwellings of the populations he slaughters. Rebuilding is expensive.

Give it a decade and you can watch Trump Tower Syria go up.