The state vs the family

Just had a friend that gave birth to a son recently. A cesarean was performed so the mother and child had to spend a few days in hospital to check it all out. Theirs was the 5th baby this week week that was taken by the state before they even had a chance to go home. What happened to the family?

Both of these parents do have have children to other relationships, but things have become estranged. There has been a strong relationship between these new parents for the past 2-3 years. Since finding out about this pregnancy there has been a big improvement and motivation in their lives to get on top of things. The last person that came close to perfection got put on the cross for bucking the system, Jesus, maybe, anyway....

Some dope was found in the mothers system, and now she has been labeled as a heroin junkie for having an epidural during the cesarean. Its enough for those that don't care about the situation to take control. The father has been labeled as aggressive because the state wants to steal his kid. He does have some history of altercations, can be loud at times, but for anyone to think he would hurt his kid is far removed from reasonable context.

How things have been twisted, based on rumors and perception without any reasonable investigation to smash up a family is depressing. It does make me want to go gay so I don't have to deal with any of this similar crap. I know and these parents know they are not perfect, but they are this child's parents and I see them improving and doing the best they can. If I was their child, to have the family smashed apart over so little hurts.

Maybe they wont hold it together and it will all fall apart. But for the state to say this is so with even giving them a chance sucks, it sucks bad. There was one court case coming up to help settle it, but since the parents got a lawyer it got adjourned till next year. Something does not smell right in the depths of Adelaide.

life is too convenient these days so those is charge want to take away your privileges of having your own child.

a reply to: kwakakev

You do not have to go gay to not have children....
And who would want to bring a child into this world anyway..... only selfish people.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

We have at least billions of years of sex going on to get us to this point in time and space. It ain't all bad, but yeah some of it is if you want to get really technical about our ancestry. $#!t happens. We would not be here without it.

The thought of a child does hold so much inspiration, motivation and hope... Its part of why there is so much fighting over it I guess?

a reply to: kwakakev

I have a hard time believing that whoever was requiring a drug test didn't take an epidural into account. It's common knowledge that those local anesthetics will show as opioids.

Either way the whole situation was caused by the previous actions of the parents.

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: Itisnowagain

We have at least billions of years of sex going on to get us to this point in time and space. It ain't all bad, but yeah some of it is if you want to get really technical about our ancestry. $#!t happens. We would not be here without it.

The thought of a child does hold so much inspiration, motivation and hope... Its part of why there is so much fighting over it I guess?

the part is "a family" of survival in its purest form. too bs out there to tell what is right and what is wrong , just listen to the natural rhythm in your life and it will speak to you.

a reply to: Bluntone22

You would like to think so. And a good chance that that blood where taken previous to the epidural to prove otherwise. But when it comes to the stolen generation, not too much has changed from what I am seeing.

I have seen some of these kids grow up in the system. A few got it together, there rest are dangerous and know how to play it. The state is a tough parent. It will keep you feed, clean and how to play bureaucracy.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: kwakakev

I have a hard time believing that whoever was requiring a drug test didn't take an epidural into account. It's common knowledge that those local anesthetics will show as opioids.

Then you might be surprised. My daughter went through a similar hassle -- no kids involved though -- after surgery, given opioid painkillers, then accused of being an addict when she tested positive for opioids, reminded the doctor she had surgery and received opioids after surgery, then accused of selling the pills because she didn't test high enough, so she had to bring in what remained of the prescription to show she still had them and just hadn't taken them.

Either way the whole situation was caused by the previous actions of the parents.

No. Everyone is responsible for their own actions -- or inactions. If the state is going to presume to take someone's kids, then THEY need to make damn sure they've got their facts straight and their ducks in a row. Especially when they do so under the premise that the child is safer with the state than its own parents.

a reply to: Boadicea

If the state is going to presume to take someone's kids, then THEY need to make damn sure they've got their facts straight and their ducks in a row. Especially when they do so under the premise that the child is safer with the state than its own parents.

Totally. There has been no real investigation, just allegations. For such a critical time in developing a family is is all just smashed apart. Reminds me of the opening scenes in 'A clockwork orange', singing in the rain.

I have to call BS on this whole story. There are a couple possibilities going on here and I don't think we are being told the whole story either by the OP or the OP has not been told the truth.

If they are doing a drug test on the mother they are going to do a large panel to find out what opiods are in the system, not a generic +/- for opiods. If it tests for heroin, then that is a street drug and I don' think it is used in epidurals. If they are going to take a baby away, they are going to find out WHAT drug is being used. Did the mother get opiates while under care after birth? did she go through withdrawl? if not, then she was either getting snuck drugs (from hubby) which is why the baby was taken most likely. Or she wasn't an addict, but they WILL know by the metabolites if it was from the epidural or not.

Also, they WILL test the baby for opiods if it is being taken away from a mother labeled a junkie. They will know what drugs are in the system, how much, etc and they will know if it came from the epidural or not. If the baby goes through withdrawl, then the mother is lying.

Unless there is some plot against this family, then the state did the right thing as the baby is going to go through withdrawl which is HELL ESPECIALLY for a baby and causes problems later in life, it can cause serious problems.

I think the OP needs to ask a little more about what is going on and find out what the real story is....

a reply to: Boadicea

No. Everyone is responsible for their own actions -- or inactions. If the state is going to presume to take someone's kids, then THEY need to make damn sure they've got their facts straight and their ducks in a row. Especially when they do so under the premise that the child is safer with the state than its own parents.

I'm pretty confident there's a lot more to this story that's being left out. Throughout my career I've never once seen CPS/YFS/whatever they're called in your local area just roll up and snatch a kid like it was nothing. The amount of hoops they have to jump through to physically take a child away from a home or family is a frequent source of frustration for law enforcement when we deal with situations like abuse or neglect or addiction. Interviews, home visits, documentation out the wazoo, and court orders are all involved.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

I am sure there is more to it. But like you making allegations without any evidence and just letting the state run its course. Whatever, who cares. The state is more powerful so it must be right, right? Just giving the peoples a heads up before it happens to them.

Breaking a family apart before it has time to form has in impact. Maybe at times it does need to be done for the sake of the children. But where is that line and what hope does the family have when the state decides to take it? Is the state always right? Maybe in time time it will get sorted, but what about the implications of the mean time? A presumption of innocence lost, guilty until proven Innocent? Is this acceptable to you only as a witness, live in denial. They must be bad parents, ra ra ra. What would you do with your family separated by the state with no immediate recourse or factual investigation.

I am sure the state is justified in its actions. But are these actions morally justified? I have my doubts. All I can really do for this situations is share it as best I know. With this family now on the states radar, I do expect 18 more years of this. Coming across other stories of how child protective services have to deal with the information quagmire of special interests, just where is the line???

a reply to: Shamrock6

Well there has been 5 families separated this week before the mother and child could even leave this one metropolitan hospital. I don't know the story for all these recent cases, but there is a strong aboriginal theme to it all.

a reply to: Boadicea

It sounds like your daughter straightened out the issue pretty easily.

And from the impression I got in the opening post, the parents have had some issues with the law in the past. So I would say its prudent for the state to really keep an eye on the welfare of this child.

a reply to: kwakakev

Didn't notice you're an Aussie before I commented. I have absolutely no idea how things work over there, so my comment is entirely irrelevant to your country. Sorry!

a reply to: Bluntone22

I have no issue with the state keeping an eye on the situation, having someone watching your back can be a good thing at times. I have known these people for years, not days like the hospital has. i cannot accept some of the allegations that have been made in this brief period of time to separate a family. From where I am, it all just looks a little too gun ho to grab another kid. Since the family wants to legally fight it and do all they can, the whole thing has just been delayed further.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Agenda 21 and the corporate takeover of the world is happening here thick and fast. In some ways we may be a few years behind you, in others we are a few years ahead.

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: DigginFoTroof

I am sure there is more to it. But like you making allegations without any evidence and just letting the state run its course. Whatever, who cares. The state is more powerful so it must be right, right? Just giving the peoples a heads up before it happens to them.

Breaking a family apart before it has time to form has in impact. Maybe at times it does need to be done for the sake of the children. But where is that line and what hope does the family have when the state decides to take it? Is the state always right? Maybe in time time it will get sorted, but what about the implications of the mean time? A presumption of innocence lost, guilty until proven Innocent? Is this acceptable to you only as a witness, live in denial. They must be bad parents, ra ra ra. What would you do with your family separated by the state with no immediate recourse or factual investigation.

I am sure the state is justified in its actions. But are these actions morally justified? I have my doubts. All I can really do for this situations is share it as best I know. With this family now on the states radar, I do expect 18 more years of this. Coming across other stories of how child protective services have to deal with the information quagmire of special interests, just where is the line???

I don't want you to think I'm really SIDING with the state, especially if they are abusing power or not doing a full test, but what I am saying is that there is probably more to it than what you have been told, maybe b/c the couple wants to "save face"..

Most opiate tests I've seen test for about 7-12 different metabolites that show which kind you are taking and it will show the levels of XXX in the system. Even the most basic urine tests will screen for 4 dfferent metabolites showing a range of about 4-6 different drugs.

Now the drug most often used in epidurals is very rarely found on the streets in a pure form and if it is found, it is often mixed with other drugs that are illegal. So the chances of them not taking the epidural into consideration is pretty low. There are many factors that will come into play like if she needed multiple doses for the epidural to work b/c she had a high tolerance - this would not be normal for a non-user and may be why the test was done.

There are many ways they can prove use before the epidural (blood levels at time of test an be very acurately calculated based on dose given). If she by chance had been using the same drug as was administered in the epidural, then her levels would have been much higher than expected and would indicate prior use.


Now if they didn't do these tests and there is something underhanded going on, then something needs to be done. I've given you the information needed to ask these questions (or have parents ask) so don't tell me I'm siding with the state. I'm 100% on your/families side if they are abusing power.

Now will you take this info and find out the truth or are you just going to complain that people aren't agreeing with you. If you have any questions, ask. If you need to know how to phrase questions to ask the doctors/state, LMK and I'll tell you what they should have done to the best of my knowledge.

a reply to: Bluntone22

Yes, she was able to clear it up, although she said she had almost thrown out the pills -- thank Heaven she didn't! I don't know what she would have done then. And she doesn't have a car, so the extra trip to the doctor's office was more than a little inconvenient. In the end, she told them to keep the pills that were left, that they weren't worth the trouble. And that she didn't appreciate being treated like a criminal by the people who were supposed to be helping her.

But I learned, and when hubby had surgery, I made sure we treated those opioids like gold. But wouldn't you know it was never an issue for hubby!