Are Pensions a Promise?

originally posted by: JAGStorm

originally posted by: angeldoll
.I'm thinking Ill. might be more of the exception than the rule. *crosses fingers*

Illinois has company:
The 15 States Making America’s Pension Crisis Worse

www.cheatsheet.com...

Holy crap! California's pensions are underfunded by nearly a trillion dollars! Bailing them out would be impossible. There's gonna be some massive pain when CA's pension crisis finally breaks.

originally posted by: ketsuko
I get the idea of a pension, but public employees have been made promises that could never be kept under the programs they were given.

Pensions are deferred wages, and the terms have been agreed upon by both parties.

When a company goes bankrupt, the government takes over its pension fund (if they have one), but they don't make up any shortfall that exists. The pensioners simply must suck it up.

Ultimately, the same will need to apply to states. Whether you consider a pension to be a "promise" or a "contract" makes little difference. These states are broke, and pension costs are one of the primary factors driving them into insolvency. Most of these same states already have extremely high tax burdens (like Illinois & California), so any realistic remedy is going to require slashing pension costs.

a reply to: ketsuko

I hate to tell you this, but this is why you do not rely on government for anything.

Man if there is a line of truth it is that right there!

Just ask any military veteran what they were promised and what they got.

At this point isn't it pretty widely understood Pensions are like lottery gambling? You pay in regularly for the slim chance of getting that money (and an even slimmer chance of that money plus interest) back. Everyone I've talked to about this has just kind of accepted that you don't trust any agency saying they'll give you a pension.

a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

They are doing everything they can to wait for the boomers to die

CALpers is a disaster

Just another instance of government corruption and public unions serving their interest and not the interest of the public

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: ketsuko
I get the idea of a pension, but public employees have been made promises that could never be kept under the programs they were given.

Pensions are deferred wages, and the terms have been agreed upon by both parties.

And if the one party can't keep the promise? Sorry, but if Illinois's government collapses, that's it. Part of the problem causing that to happen was mismanagement of the pension programs and funds, corruption in the system. More was promised than could be paid.

It was not the fault of any other state government, nor the Federal government that this happened. No one else should be on the hook for this.

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan
When a company goes bankrupt, the government takes over its pension fund (if they have one), but they don't make up any shortfall that exists. The pensioners simply must suck it up.

Ultimately, the same will need to apply to states. Whether you consider a pension to be a "promise" or a "contract" makes little difference. These states are broke, and pension costs are one of the primary factors driving them into insolvency. Most of these same states already have extremely high tax burdens (like Illinois & California), so any realistic remedy is going to require slashing pension costs.

here is the problem with that. you slash the pension, but in the end does the government (in the case of government employees) really save any money? because by slashing pensions those on the pensions instead need welfare, government housing, food stamps etc. o basically you are just shifting the expense from pensions to the social systems, which is also funded by tax money.

a reply to: generik

Given the sizes of some of those pensions ... yeah, you may be saving money.

a reply to: argentus

It's the Teamsters Union. I don't really feel like questioning them n'est-ce pas?

There was only a collective bargaining agreement good for about four years at a time. It covered salary and benefit agreements including that the company contribute towards a pension plan for all union employees. There was never any expressed guarantee for any benefits beyond the collective bargaining agreement. It is still funded by employers of union members on their behalf and by investment of those funds. But its run by the mafia so who knows.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Lord I wish, but no.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: ketsuko
I get the idea of a pension, but public employees have been made promises that could never be kept under the programs they were given.

Pensions are deferred wages, and the terms have been agreed upon by both parties.

And if the one party can't keep the promise? Sorry, but if Illinois's government collapses, that's it. Part of the problem causing that to happen was mismanagement of the pension programs and funds, corruption in the system. More was promised than could be paid.

It was not the fault of any other state government, nor the Federal government that this happened. No one else should be on the hook for this.

It's not a promise, it's a contract. Should be able to sue the employer if they don't come through. Thanks goodness mine's bulletproof!

The taxpayers should have a say.

a reply to: JAGStorm


It does not matter whether they were a right by virtue that you are a citizen, you are entitled to share in the nations bounty the same as all citizens of that country have that right.

The thing that you can be very certain of is that sure as christ your govt (no matter which one it is in the world) is going to be tell you that its now only a grant, something government chooses to give you by their good grace. Provided you are a good little boy or girl.

Another word they might use is privilege. A privilege is something that can be taken away, it is NOT a right.

Why are doing this now in many countires - 2 reasons.

cos they can because the masses let them.
cos its part of the NWO tyranny that is being rolled out by BOTH sides of politics in ALL western countires no matter WHO IS IN POWER.

The agenda continues because most people can be brought and those that cant can be "disappeared" just like Dr Day said it would in his 1969 talk; "Everything is in Place and No-one Can Stop Us Now'

So whats the plan?

We just going to kill off all the seniors?

Let me know when we ride.

originally posted by: Wayfarer
At this point isn't it pretty widely understood Pensions are like lottery gambling? You pay in regularly for the slim chance of getting that money (and an even slimmer chance of that money plus interest) back. Everyone I've talked to about this has just kind of accepted that you don't trust any agency saying they'll give you a pension.

Only in the land of the free, it's a little like the medical system, in any other western country the people would be in streets demanding change, the question really should be why aren't they....

originally posted by: Lysergic
So whats the plan?

We just going to kill off all the seniors?

Let me know when we ride.

Logan's run...

a reply to: Lysergic

Bring it, sonny. We didn't get to be this old by being pancakes.

__________________

According to Forbes,, USG ........ and, well global pensions are soon to be on the block.

A 1960 Supreme Court case, Flemming vs. Nestor, ruled that Social Security is not insurance or any other kind of property. The law obligates you to make FICA “contributions.”

It does not obligate the government to give you anything back. FICA is simply a tax, like income tax or any other. The amount you pay in does figure into your benefit amount, but Congress can change that benefit any time it wishes.

So you see, wiping us out will have little benefit other than, say, personal enjoyment.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Kentucky is going through a similar pension crisis. I hope every teacher in the state loses every last penny they saved at the tax payers dollar for questioning the ultimate reckoning. Else.... let the #ing system fail.

Pensions are a rip off. They take your money and give it to a fund manager and they profit off it

Instead. You could take the money and purchase real estate or even just buy into am index and you would have vast sums of money more than what you get out of it

People who get pensions are fools