Obamacare Thrown Out by Judge (Unconstitutional), Raising Insurance Uncertainty

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I know that people are being refused healthcare they need because they can't pay... I've experienced it!!
like I said, that right is being denied, have been denied... but still in my view, the taxpayers footing the bill for those that the gov't deems worthy of help so they can have that "right" also have that right!!!
since the gov't can't decide you should live in this country and who they can let die...

I'm on medicare, haven't been able to use it since I have no way to get to a doctor anyway since my car is rather dead at the moment. but, pretty sure I can find a doctor that will take it. sure you ain't talking about medicaid? but it could be both since ya, the gov't keeps reducing the reimbursement to the providers and sometimes they lose money in the deal.

our whole system needs to be redesigned in some way. while I agree obamacare wasn't the answer, the system had some pretty significant flaws in it beforehand. I'll even go as far as saying those flaws may very well have played a part in the last banking fiasco. and the fall of those banks and those mortgages may have put the insurance companies into enough troubled waters that obamacare was needed as just a secret bailout to keep the insurance companies afloat.

a reply to: dawnstar

When things like social security are at an extremely high risk of being insolvent, how can anyone rationalize that a government healthcare insurance would work?

I've got the news on as background noise.


The theme from the socialist side, appears to be, "What will millions of Americans do without government healthcare?"


And that tells me that we've already lost.


When the narrative is that government has an obligation to take care of our healthcare needs, we're screwed as a nation that values individuality, personal responsibility.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: DBCowboy


Paid by whom? Tax payers, mostly, that's who.

Wrong again.

Many (most) are for-profit businesses.

...Who also get government contracts, financed by tax payers, and Medicare and Medicaid reimbursements.

EMTs and paramedics don't concern themselves with a patient's insurance coverage in order to respond to an emergency call. They may be concerned about which hospital to take the patient.

All people get emergency medical assistance, whether they deserve it or not, whether they can pay for it or not. When they can't, the tax payer is on the hook.

a reply to: dawnstar

Sorry, you have no right. Just stop.

I am a proponent for single payer insurance. Not healthcare, but insurance. I will never say it is a right though, it's not.

People not in healthcare have no clue what is going on and how bad it is. The government is actually fueling the opioid crisis and creating antibiotic resistant superbugs with their policies regarding payments. The ACA was worse than nothing, fixed nothing, and made it harder to fix the problems. We need REAL reform.

Not so fast on Medicare,

Revolt or Collapse

Let's make this clear right up front: Neither the left's "Medicare for all" or the right's "Repeal and replace" mantras will do a damn thing about this, and 2024 is not far away.

I will also remind you that markets never let you actually hit the wall just as they did not in 2000 and 2007. Once they suss out that the politicians will not fix it because the people are sticking their fingers in their ears and chanting for people like Trump and Occasional Cortex the market will dive. Not a little, a lot.

This will force the naked swimmers in the pool above water level for their ugliness to be seen by all. Again -- there is no tax change that can fix this.

The only means to fix it is to dramatically cut medical spending in the economy as a whole -- not cost-shift it, not make someone else pay, stop paying entirely right now, not in the future, not via some claimed "cost curve" bend in the future that never comes.

a reply to: ltdan08


The real fix for the mess that is a cost issue not an insurance issue

The Bill To Fix Healthcare For All

You may personally agree, disagree or ignore but there is not much disputing actual numbers and math applied by Denninger.

Usually disagreement is motivated by a need to get something for nothing which seems to be prevalent on many fronts.

Crux of matter is cost basis not insurance availability, if think its insurance you are following the programming perfectly.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Key word EMERGENCY. All people currently also get Emergency medical treatment as well and it is illegal to ask for insurance before providing such services.

a reply to: DBCowboy


The ACA isn't "government healthcare". It regulates health care and provides subsidies to low income individuals to pay for profit insurance companies for coverage and management of their benefits. The ACA didn't invent Medicare or Medicaid, it expanded eligibility in those programs.

Medicare for All would be considered "government healthcare". It's the theme progressives are turning to, with the looming prospect of "What will millions of Americans will do without government regulated healthcare protections in place?"

a reply to: Sookiechacha

It regulates health care and provides subsidies to low income individuals to pay for profit insurance companies for coverage and management of their benefits.

Exactly the reason there is such an uproar.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: DBCowboy


The ACA isn't "government healthcare". It regulates health care and provides subsidies to low income individuals to pay for profit insurance companies for coverage and management of their benefits. The ACA didn't invent Medicare or Medicaid, it expanded eligibility in those programs.

Medicare for All would be considered "government healthcare". It's the theme progressives are turning to, with the looming prospect of "What will millions of Americans will do without government regulated healthcare protections in place?"

The ACA also dictated prices that hospitals had to charge.

The ACA dictated what prices doctors had to charge in order to get reimbursed.

The ACA was the first step, a transition, to socialized medicine.

a reply to: DBCowboy

The ACA took many steps forward in removing healthcare decisions from Doctors. Insurance companies and patients now dictate a lot of healthcare decisions and even when a Dr knows a treatment is not helpful and potentially harmful they are more or less forced to do it.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

then what is the justification for medicaid, for child health plus both of which seem to think that some, the poor, the children have a right to healthcare? well, if there is no right, I don't want to ever hear another state or county government tell me that they have to raise their taxes to help pay their share for these programs!!!!

We need REAL reform.

yes, we do, preferably reform that decreases the cost of the healthcare/ insurance instead of just coddling the danged insurance company and paying them more and more tax money for less and less service so their upper managers can have bigger and bigger salaries and bonuses!
as as far as the problems with social security and medicaid... here's an idea, start taxing more of those bigger and bigger salaries and bonuses for those programs, raise the cap. not only will it open up more of the pool of cash to taxation but maybe, just maybe it will give less incentive to employers to shower their highest payed employees with more money while keeping their lower wage earners at near poverty levels which leaves them running to these gov't programs asking for help!!!

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: DBCowboy

The ACA took many steps forward in removing healthcare decisions from Doctors. Insurance companies and patients now dictate a lot of healthcare decisions and even when a Dr knows a treatment is not helpful and potentially harmful they are more or less forced to do it.

And socialized medicine will end up being where a government bureaucrat will be the one determining your healthcare.

a reply to: dawnstar

It does not have to be a right to be something we as a people decide we will do.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Sookiechacha

Key word EMERGENCY. All people currently also get Emergency medical treatment as well and it is illegal to ask for insurance before providing such services.

Ergo, my point that "everyone deserves medical treatment" is demonstrably valid in emergency situations, as opposed to my fellow posters who argue that "no one has the RIGHT to medical care".

To what extent should basic government guaranteed coverage apply, like a proposed Medicare for All policy should cover, is what we're arguing.

Personally, I think the flu qualifies as an emergency. I think extreme pain and suffering, for whatever reason, that can be relieved and should be relieved ASAP. A person with a gaping wound or a screaming migraine headache, a broken ankle...should get pain relief whether or not they can afford it at the time.

The real problem isn't Government Healthcare...like medicare/medicaid for all.

It's that there are laws in place protecting Insurance companies and health care providers, so that they can over charge us, and refuse us care and coverage, even if we are paying.

Then the health insurance/health care system is rigged and set up in such a way as to favor as much profit as possible. Meaning, it's in their best interest to refuse a hundred thousand operation and recovery program, even when it's needed whether you're going to die or not.

The Health care industry is so entrenched and powerful..that we can't boycott it...we need it. And we really can't do anything about it. Except vote for politicians that promise to fix things. MOst of them will not, because they get paid by the insurance and healthcare industry.

We're screwed. The only way to fix this IS with some kind of government intervention.

a reply to: DBCowboy

I am for two things, putting healthcare decisions back in the hands of professionals, and for universal insurance. I believe the former has to happen before the latter can.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04


I'm in the business.


I think that we can lower the costs without impacting the pay of people in the industry by removing government interference.


We need to end ridiculous government regs.
We need to eliminate minimum mandates on malpractice insurances.
We need to end limits to who and how and where insurance companies can offer coverage.


The more government gets involved, the worse things get, and people then cry for government involvement into a mess that government created.

a reply to: DBCowboy

The more government gets involved, the worse things get, and people then cry for government involvement into a mess that government created.

The answer can not also be the problem.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

well, guess what, obamacare was something that the people decided they would do!!!
and now you may find yourself paying for something that you can't partake in just as I have been!!!