It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Obamacare Thrown Out by Judge (Unconstitutional), Raising Insurance Uncertainty

page: 13
66
<< 10  11  12    14  15  16 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 16 2018 @ 08:52 PM
link   

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I have a problem with that. Either everyone gets treatment, or no one does.

TheRedneck


Agree. Addiction is a disease. It's consequences should be treated like other diseases.

If anything the costs should be shouldered by the companies selling the disease.




posted on Dec, 16 2018 @ 09:01 PM
link   

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Extorris

And last I checked everyone has the option to get insurance.


Because of ACA. If this court ruling is not overturned it will precisely give insurance companies the ability to deny coverage as they see fit to serve profit margins.



Acting like people have no way to mitigate their health problems is disingenuous. You have a body, you can choose to get insurance or not, your choice. Even car insurance you don't need full coverage, the insurance is not about the owner but about ensuring other people are protected from their actions.


You can absolutely mitigate risk with lifestyle choices.
You absolutely can NOT eliminate risk and life is long.

Your car example is pointless. You can Eliminate risk by not driving or owning a car. You are required to drive and own your body.



posted on Dec, 16 2018 @ 09:04 PM
link   
Just a note.

We discuss the economics and rationality of health policy, but from a political perspective? This will kill the GOP. Costs have risen the most in red states the past two years. President Trump and the GOP promised to fix this and they have offered no alternative and only endeavored to destroy the only option a lot of people have left all the while making the situation worse, not better.

This is a suicidal strategy for the GOP.


edit on 16-12-2018 by Extorris because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2018 @ 09:28 PM
link   
I was one of them. I could not afford the $480 A MONTH that I was now forced to pay. At the time I was almost homeless. a reply to: ketsuko



posted on Dec, 16 2018 @ 09:37 PM
link   

originally posted by: Extorris
Just a note.

We discuss the economics and rationality of health policy, but from a political perspective? This will kill the GOP. Costs have risen the most in red states the past two years. President Trump and the GOP promised to fix this and they have offered no alternative and only endeavored to destroy the only option a lot of people have left all the while making the situation worse, not better.

This is a suicidal strategy for the GOP.



"This" is broken because of Obama and the Dems ramming it down people's throats, and the GOP voters know it. The people who are dealing with the fallout are most likely the lower income earners (aka Dem voters) in the urban strongholds of those red states.

The people who voted for Trump and the GOP voted to get rid of o-care, not 'fix the system' and replace one government boondoggle with another.

In other words, it's not the suicide pact you think it is.



posted on Dec, 16 2018 @ 10:05 PM
link   
a reply to: Extorris

And that's why I proposed a government-funded catastrophic health care plan for all, and agreed to a proposal (I think it was yours?) to nationalize health care. I have even proposed an entire system in the past that would provide health care free for anyone who could not afford it, and at low cost for those who couldn't afford full price. I just will not support any plan that involves insurance carriers, specifies what people can do with after-tax monies, or leaves certain people out for any reason.

But, no one seems to care. It's apparently more about "someone pay for me!" than about "let's make medical care affordable for everyone." When people decide they want the latter, there are ways to make it work. Until then, there's no one else to blame than that dude in the mirror.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 16 2018 @ 10:08 PM
link   
a reply to: Extorris

We'll see about the suicidal part. I personally laugh every time someone tries to equate "Obamacare" with "Republican's fault!" If the rest of America falls for it, they're dumber than I thought (which is entirely possible).

And I'm an Independent.

TheRedneck


(post by Amakom removed for a serious terms and conditions violation)

posted on Dec, 17 2018 @ 05:01 AM
link   
Most of the Ocare crap wan non functional. Ask someone working who's family's insurance tripled in 2 years and their deductible went up 1-15 times what it was. You have insurance that creates a lot of paperwork and jobs but does nothing for the person that who pays for it.

People quit jobs to get away from it.




posted on Dec, 17 2018 @ 10:46 AM
link   

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Extorris
Just a note.

We discuss the economics and rationality of health policy, but from a political perspective? This will kill the GOP. Costs have risen the most in red states the past two years. President Trump and the GOP promised to fix this and they have offered no alternative and only endeavored to destroy the only option a lot of people have left all the while making the situation worse, not better.

This is a suicidal strategy for the GOP.



"This" is broken because of Obama and the Dems ramming it down people's throats, and the GOP voters know it.


Polls (including Fox News) show the opposite of this claim.
None of the following statistics are possible without a significantly relevant portion of GOP voters believing the the following.



Health care is a top issue for voters.

Voters believe Democrats can better handle health care issues by a 15-point margin.

64 percent of Americans want the government to take steps to help more people get covered.

A majority of Americans believe the Affordable Care Act is “about right” or “didn’t go far enough.

By a 2-1 margin, Americans say Republicans’ recent changes to health care laws have hurt, rather than helped, with their health care coverage and costs.
]

The people who are dealing with the fallout are most likely the lower income earners (aka Dem voters) in the urban strongholds of those red states.

The people who voted for Trump and the GOP voted to get rid of o-care, not 'fix the system' and replace one government boondoggle with another.

In other words, it's not the suicide pact you think it is.

Recent Fox News Poll:
www.foxnews.com...
Fox News Poll: Health care boosts Democrats in upcoming midterm elections
www.foxnews.com...



KFF polling continues to find pre-existing conditions as a widespread concern and with the impending lawsuit Texas v. United States, a majority of the public say it is “very important” that the Affordable Care Act’s (ACA) protections for people with pre-existing conditions ensuring guaranteed coverage (75 percent) and community rating (72 percent) remain law.

About half (52 percent) of the public are “very worried” that they or someone in their family will have to pay more for health insurance and four in ten (41 percent) are “very worried” they will lose their coverage if the Supreme Court overturns these protections.

www.kff.org... al-bills/



posted on Dec, 17 2018 @ 11:28 AM
link   

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Extorris
Just a note.

We discuss the economics and rationality of health policy, but from a political perspective? This will kill the GOP. Costs have risen the most in red states the past two years. President Trump and the GOP promised to fix this and they have offered no alternative and only endeavored to destroy the only option a lot of people have left all the while making the situation worse, not better.

This is a suicidal strategy for the GOP.



The people who voted for Trump and the GOP voted to get rid of o-care, not 'fix the system' and replace one government boondoggle with another.



Also a mis-perception.

This map shows where Healthcare costs have risen the most under President Trump.

www.kff.org...




The people who are dealing with the fallout are most likely the lower income earners (aka Dem voters) in the urban strongholds of those red states.


Republicans make up the majority of low-income white voters.

Of those making less than 50k in the USA, 39% vote Republican.

Of Whites making less than 50K in the USA 51% vote Republican.

Income is a less important indicator than race in voting.



posted on Dec, 17 2018 @ 11:30 AM
link   

originally posted by: TheRedneck
I personally laugh every time someone tries to equate "Obamacare" with "Republican's fault!"


Yea, I agree with that too. It seems Democrats want to have short memories when it comes to who did what. Democrats rammed Obamacare down people's throats in federal income tax'esque style in the middle of the night without allowing Republican input on it. I don't agree necessarily removing ANY type of healthcare from people at all, but to blame Republicans for the current debacle in it's present form is ludicrous.

But also, let's be honest about where the REAL problem lies too, we love to blame insurance and companies but the doctors AND big pharma are the real culprits here. $7000.00 for an MRI? $200,000.00+ for cancer treatment that if terminal will leave surviving family paying those costs? Thousand$$ for immunotherapy drugs? In my view the real culprits are those who think they can command such prices, insurance companies are the canary in the coal mine...doctors and pharma ARE the mine.



posted on Dec, 17 2018 @ 11:36 AM
link   

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Extorris

And that's why I proposed a government-funded catastrophic health care plan for all, and agreed to a proposal (I think it was yours?) to nationalize health care. I have even proposed an entire system in the past that would provide health care free for anyone who could not afford it, and at low cost for those who couldn't afford full price. I just will not support any plan that involves insurance carriers, specifies what people can do with after-tax monies, or leaves certain people out for any reason.



I think we mostly agree then.



posted on Dec, 17 2018 @ 11:39 AM
link   
Doctors/Hospitals/Pharmaceuticals have Americans over a barrel.

If we demand that they accept less money, under a Medicare-for-all program, they will in turn cut back on their quality and availability.

Americans would cry "UNCLE!" really quickly and ask that things return to the way they were.

Best option is Medicare/Medcaid for the sick and/or poor, and private insurance for everyone else.



posted on Dec, 17 2018 @ 11:48 AM
link   
a reply to: alphabetaone

Republicans could clinch their position as the party of the people if they would actually fix the problems... of course, that would require making life very hard for insurers, because they went all in on Obamacare.

I don't place all the blame on the doctors themselves, but I do place a decent amount on the medical services industry, as in hospitals. Hospital administrators are making out like bandits as well, but this can still be traced back to the issue with Obamacare's forced mandate. With insurers required to cover everyone, the hospitals saw a way to increase their charges. After all, the insurers wouldn't be harmed because they would just pass the costs (plus their profit of course) on to the individuals as premium increases, and the individuals getting treatment wouldn't care at the time of their hospitalization because they probably never looked at the bill.

Just another way the individual mandate increased costs.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 17 2018 @ 11:50 AM
link   

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Extorris

We'll see about the suicidal part. I personally laugh every time someone tries to equate "Obamacare" with "Republican's fault!" If the rest of America falls for it, they're dumber than I thought (which is entirely possible).

And I'm an Independent.



"Obamacare" is not Republicans fault.
The state of Obamacare after 8 years of Republican's slow dismantling of it in the courts and states without any alternative is very much the Republicans' fault.
And the state of healthcare in the USA after 2 years of unilateral rule by the GOP in all branches of government is absolutely something the GOP owns.
The public very clearly understands that.

It would be like if you purchased a car and then over 8 years, refused to ever get it tuned up, refused to change the oil or get it serviced and then occasionally tore random parts off the engine and then blamed the car manufacturer for selling you a car 8 years ago that wont run now.

The GOP have refused to employ any "fixes" to Obamacare and YES many fixes were necessary.
They proudly tore into the law by every means necessary to hobble and destroy it. They bragged about their successes.
They absolutely never at any time proposed and agreed upon a viable alternative.
President Obama has said repeatedly, if the GOP can propose something better, then absolutely feel free to kill Obamacare and replace it. The GOP are succeeding in destroying Obamacare while they haven't even begun to propose a solution.



edit on 17-12-2018 by Extorris because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2018 @ 11:55 AM
link   
a reply to: Extorris

I am glad we agree. I am also curious, however... which of those three, universal catastrophic, nationalization, or my plan do you prefer?

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 17 2018 @ 12:02 PM
link   
a reply to: Extorris

I cannot disagree that the Republicans have failed to pass another solution; however, the problem now is more difficult than it was before Obamacare because of Obamacare. Universal healthcare is a pretty tight balancing act for us, with the different standards of living, different cultures, and different industries involved.

I will still not absolve Obama or the Democrats of creating the monstrosity in the first place. Sure, the pre-existing conditions clause helped a lot of people, but the details used to implement it hurt many more. The real issue was that it was administered through not the government itself, but through insurers with government enforcement. That should never happen in a free country; no other country on Earth has such a system.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 17 2018 @ 12:04 PM
link   

originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: TheRedneck
I personally laugh every time someone tries to equate "Obamacare" with "Republican's fault!"


Yea, I agree with that too. It seems Democrats want to have short memories when it comes to who did what. Democrats rammed Obamacare down people's throats in federal income tax'esque style in the middle of the night without allowing Republican input on it.


This is historically incorrect.

Most notably the Public Option was dropped from the bill at Republicans demand and the final bill included several dozen GOP Amendments as well as being a result of early negotiating by the GOP in the Senate before the GOP declared no one would vote for it regardless of the final bill.

www.politifact.com...



posted on Dec, 17 2018 @ 05:13 PM
link   

originally posted by: Extorris


originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Extorris
Just a note.

We discuss the economics and rationality of health policy, but from a political perspective? This will kill the GOP. Costs have risen the most in red states the past two years. President Trump and the GOP promised to fix this and they have offered no alternative and only endeavored to destroy the only option a lot of people have left all the while making the situation worse, not better.

This is a suicidal strategy for the GOP.



"This" is broken because of Obama and the Dems ramming it down people's throats, and the GOP voters know it.


Polls (including Fox News) show the opposite of this claim.
None of the following statistics are possible without a significantly relevant portion of GOP voters believing the the following.



Health care is a top issue for voters.

Voters believe Democrats can better handle health care issues by a 15-point margin.

64 percent of Americans want the government to take steps to help more people get covered.

A majority of Americans believe the Affordable Care Act is “about right” or “didn’t go far enough.

By a 2-1 margin, Americans say Republicans’ recent changes to health care laws have hurt, rather than helped, with their health care coverage and costs.
]

The people who are dealing with the fallout are most likely the lower income earners (aka Dem voters) in the urban strongholds of those red states.

The people who voted for Trump and the GOP voted to get rid of o-care, not 'fix the system' and replace one government boondoggle with another.

In other words, it's not the suicide pact you think it is.


Recent Fox News Poll:
www.foxnews.com...
Fox News Poll: Health care boosts Democrats in upcoming midterm elections
www.foxnews.com...



KFF polling continues to find pre-existing conditions as a widespread concern and with the impending lawsuit Texas v. United States, a majority of the public say it is “very important” that the Affordable Care Act’s (ACA) protections for people with pre-existing conditions ensuring guaranteed coverage (75 percent) and community rating (72 percent) remain law.

About half (52 percent) of the public are “very worried” that they or someone in their family will have to pay more for health insurance and four in ten (41 percent) are “very worried” they will lose their coverage if the Supreme Court overturns these protections.

www.kff.org... al-bills/




Wow. Polls. Those are always accurate.

ALWAYS!
edit on 17-12-2018 by Teikiatsu because: (no reason given)




top topics



 
66
<< 10  11  12    14  15  16 >>

log in

join