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Venezuelans regret gun ban, 'a declaration of war against an unarmed population'

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posted on Dec, 14 2018 @ 05:25 PM
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a reply to: whargoul

I'm sorry, but you are seriously out of touch with what's going on in Venezuela and the historical link between Socialism and Marxism. That and you don't know me.

Socialism is not necessary to have social programs. In fact I am in favor of Medicare for all right now. There is a huge difference between having a Socialist government and having social safety nets and programs.

You owe that gun store owner an apology. You really, really need to educate yourself on Venezuela before you enter the conversation.




posted on Dec, 14 2018 @ 05:27 PM
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a reply to: network dude

I don't agree with the part about video games, but otherwise



posted on Dec, 14 2018 @ 05:28 PM
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a reply to: whargoul

Clearly you weren’t paying attention. Socialism does not equal gun control. However, gun control leads to socialism, at a minimum, and to much worse once the socialist/fascists are in charge. See Jews, Germany, early 20th century.

There are plenty of socialist places for you to move since you find the idea so glamorous.

By the way, I could care less about the 1%. I live my life and am happy with what I have, not constantly stressed out about what everyone else has. You should try it sometime!



posted on Dec, 14 2018 @ 05:37 PM
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a reply to: whargoul

From CNN just for you...
Chaos in Venezuela

(CNN)Thousands of Venezuelans fleeing the economic and humanitarian crisis roiling their homeland are facing increasing hostility from their South American neighbors.
Stricter border rules and mob violence have greeted some migrants as they look for refuge from the chaotic situation in Venezuela.
The mass exodus is ratcheting up tensions in countries such as Peru, Ecuador and Brazil even as Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro announces the introduction of "a magic formula" to get his country back on track.


Or just use Google for all the sources of this tragedy that has been front page news for a long time now. Start with Chavez and work your way forward. Things have changed since Carter was there.



posted on Dec, 14 2018 @ 05:42 PM
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originally posted by: whargoul

originally posted by: Blaine91555
I really did not want to post this in the Mud Pit, but considering the current state of this topic....

Be patient with me in replying to posts as I'm pretty busy today.


As Venezuela continues to crumble under the socialist dictatorship of President Nicolas Maduro, some are expressing words of warning – and resentment – against a six-year-old gun control bill that stripped citizens of their weapons.

“Guns would have served as a vital pillar to remaining a free people, or at least able to put up a fight,” Javier Vanegas, 28, a Venezuelan teacher of English now exiled in Ecuador, told Fox News. “The government security forces, at the beginning of this debacle, knew they had no real opposition to their force. Once things were this bad, it was a clear declaration of war against an unarmed population.”...

...A former gun store owner inside Venezuela – who told Fox News he has now been relegated to only selling fishing supplies since the ban – said he can’t sell any type of weaponry - even a slingshot - and underscored that even BB ammunition and airsoft guns are only issued to police and military officers...

...“The Venezuelan rulers – like their Cuban masters – apparently viewed citizen possession of arms as a potential danger to a permanent communist monopoly of power.”...

...The punishment for illicit carrying or selling a weapon now is 20 years behind bars.


More than three million Venzuelans have fled into neighboring Colombia since the crisis of 2015.



I can't think of a more in our faces argument against gun control and why our Constitution protects us from this exact thing happening.

With the concept of socialism being pushed now among many on the Left side of the aisle, by people who are also screaming for gun control, it is worrying. I don't think we are at the level yet of the average person on the Left wanting us disarmed but if they get too much control and keep chip, chip, chipping away at our Right, they may at some point in the future succeed.

Socialism historically never leads to anything other than something akin to Communism. It seems that's just how it is and when those in control get that kind of power over us, they always turn to the dark side.

We need to watch this ongoing drama in Venezuela and take it seriously as a lesson in what can happen. It was not that long ago that Hugo Chavez was the darling of President Carter and the extreme Left and this is his legacy. The path from Socialism to Marxism is a short one.



LINK


So Socialism = Gun Control now? Check. Why is that?

Is it a will of the people thing? Because that would be socialism, it would be democratic, and it would be constitutional (if there were a constitutional convention and all that to remove the protections of the 2nd).

Sooooo... where are we?

Oh yeah, some sour grapes libertarian gun store owner claiming that they could have negated the results of a democratic election in Venezuela, if they just had had their guns. Kinda minimizes the whole story when you boil it down huh.

You've got FOX news to tell you what to think though.

Why is socialism bad? What is unconstitutional about expanding the social safety net? You know (I know you do because we can make lists all day and they have been posted numerous times) that we already live in a mixed socialist/capitalist country.

Why are you falling into line behind the 1%?

Seriously, you guys need to ask yourselves that. Why cede your rights and wealth to the 1%? Because that's what you are doing when you turn your nose at free healthcare, free education, etc.

If the answer is "because I want to be rich" or anything to that effect then you are a dumb dumb. Sorry to straw man that last line, but I can seriously not think of any other answer. The deck is stacked against you ever becoming a billionaire. Why not raise every bodies standards of living? Why only make the wealthy wealthier?

Making the wealthy wealthier is all you are doing when you stand against social programs.

Why are you allowing FOX and the rest of them fear monger you against this?

Hey to be fair, the neo-libs are doing the same thing on our side, we just keep on showing them up. WE aren't allowing our side to fear monger us.


Leftist idiocy in all its idiotic glory right there folks. Seriously how do you reason with someone so mentally deficient?



posted on Dec, 14 2018 @ 05:44 PM
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originally posted by: Carcharadon

originally posted by: whargoul

originally posted by: Blaine91555
I really did not want to post this in the Mud Pit, but considering the current state of this topic....

Be patient with me in replying to posts as I'm pretty busy today.


As Venezuela continues to crumble under the socialist dictatorship of President Nicolas Maduro, some are expressing words of warning – and resentment – against a six-year-old gun control bill that stripped citizens of their weapons.

“Guns would have served as a vital pillar to remaining a free people, or at least able to put up a fight,” Javier Vanegas, 28, a Venezuelan teacher of English now exiled in Ecuador, told Fox News. “The government security forces, at the beginning of this debacle, knew they had no real opposition to their force. Once things were this bad, it was a clear declaration of war against an unarmed population.”...

...A former gun store owner inside Venezuela – who told Fox News he has now been relegated to only selling fishing supplies since the ban – said he can’t sell any type of weaponry - even a slingshot - and underscored that even BB ammunition and airsoft guns are only issued to police and military officers...

...“The Venezuelan rulers – like their Cuban masters – apparently viewed citizen possession of arms as a potential danger to a permanent communist monopoly of power.”...

...The punishment for illicit carrying or selling a weapon now is 20 years behind bars.


More than three million Venzuelans have fled into neighboring Colombia since the crisis of 2015.



I can't think of a more in our faces argument against gun control and why our Constitution protects us from this exact thing happening.

With the concept of socialism being pushed now among many on the Left side of the aisle, by people who are also screaming for gun control, it is worrying. I don't think we are at the level yet of the average person on the Left wanting us disarmed but if they get too much control and keep chip, chip, chipping away at our Right, they may at some point in the future succeed.

Socialism historically never leads to anything other than something akin to Communism. It seems that's just how it is and when those in control get that kind of power over us, they always turn to the dark side.

We need to watch this ongoing drama in Venezuela and take it seriously as a lesson in what can happen. It was not that long ago that Hugo Chavez was the darling of President Carter and the extreme Left and this is his legacy. The path from Socialism to Marxism is a short one.



LINK


So Socialism = Gun Control now? Check. Why is that?

Is it a will of the people thing? Because that would be socialism, it would be democratic, and it would be constitutional (if there were a constitutional convention and all that to remove the protections of the 2nd).

Sooooo... where are we?

Oh yeah, some sour grapes libertarian gun store owner claiming that they could have negated the results of a democratic election in Venezuela, if they just had had their guns. Kinda minimizes the whole story when you boil it down huh.

You've got FOX news to tell you what to think though.

Why is socialism bad? What is unconstitutional about expanding the social safety net? You know (I know you do because we can make lists all day and they have been posted numerous times) that we already live in a mixed socialist/capitalist country.

Why are you falling into line behind the 1%?

Seriously, you guys need to ask yourselves that. Why cede your rights and wealth to the 1%? Because that's what you are doing when you turn your nose at free healthcare, free education, etc.

If the answer is "because I want to be rich" or anything to that effect then you are a dumb dumb. Sorry to straw man that last line, but I can seriously not think of any other answer. The deck is stacked against you ever becoming a billionaire. Why not raise every bodies standards of living? Why only make the wealthy wealthier?

Making the wealthy wealthier is all you are doing when you stand against social programs.

Why are you allowing FOX and the rest of them fear monger you against this?

Hey to be fair, the neo-libs are doing the same thing on our side, we just keep on showing them up. WE aren't allowing our side to fear monger us.


Leftist idiocy in all its idiotic glory right there folks. Seriously how do you reason with someone so mentally deficient?




To be able to reason, first one needs to be reasonable...



posted on Dec, 14 2018 @ 05:48 PM
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a reply to: whargoul


So Socialism = Gun Control now? Check. Why is that?

Mainly because socialism always fails. When it does, leaders become fearful of the population and don't want to become lead magnets. So they always take the guns.


Why is socialism bad? What is unconstitutional about expanding the social safety net? You know (I know you do because we can make lists all day and they have been posted numerous times) that we already live in a mixed socialist/capitalist country.

It's not unconstitutional. It simply doesn't work past a certain point. Never has, never will. Extrapolate that out... expanding the social safety net means more people taking and less paying in. Eventually that will collapse. The best option is for everyone to work and make a decent living, but that never works completely either.

That's why we have a mixed system. I want to keep it a mixed system. You seem to want it to be pure socialism.


Seriously, you guys need to ask yourselves that. Why cede your rights and wealth to the 1%? Because that's what you are doing when you turn your nose at free healthcare, free education, etc.

Wrong. Exactly wrong. When one makes themselves dependent on others, they become slaves to those others. Socialism is the making of people dependent on others, by definition.


Making the wealthy wealthier is all you are doing when you stand against social programs.

Who do you think profits from those social programs? It certainly isn't the poor, or they wouldn't stay poor.

Methinks you might want to rethink your arguments. They make no sense.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 14 2018 @ 05:50 PM
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a reply to: whargoul

Have you paid any attention, at all, at what's happening there? Before opining, you really ought to inform yourself.

In the case of Venezuela, which is, since it's apparently escaped your notice, the topic of the thread, Socialism does, indeed, equate to gun control. Did you just skip right over that part??



posted on Dec, 14 2018 @ 06:25 PM
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a reply to: whargoul

They're eating the zoo animals dude...........the zoo animals. www.chicagotribune.com...
The people ran out of toilet paper..........toilet paper.

If you read the op you will see that they can't even sell a slingshot........a slingshot. Oh, and don't get caught with a rock in your hand its game over man..........game over. That's what happens when you give up a right one by one.




posted on Dec, 14 2018 @ 06:40 PM
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a reply to: whargoul

You are lost.



posted on Dec, 14 2018 @ 06:45 PM
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originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Blaine91555

Sounds like this was the plan all along.
The gun store owner couldn't even sell slingshots?

That's not just a gun ban, that's a outright weapons ban period.


Slingshots? BB Guns??

You'll shoot your eye out kid!



posted on Dec, 14 2018 @ 06:47 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Blaine91555


I'm tempted at times when watching all the shootings that happen to say that perhaps a little more gun control may be a good idea. Then I come to my senses and take a look at the world around us for lessons in what the truth of it is.

Same here.

The thing that brings me back to reality is when I realize who will be in charge of deciding who gets guns and who doesn't. For me, that nightmare is Nancy Pelosi or Chuck Schumer. For others, it might be Donald Trump. Who here would like to see him in charge of who gets to have a gun? That's what gun control is.

TheRedneck


I wouldn't worry about it. David Hogg will decide who gets guns.



posted on Dec, 14 2018 @ 08:54 PM
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This information supports a thread I put up over two years ago. I've been keeping up on Venezuela as a valuable lesson as to what could happen here in the states if we went down the same road they have. I put a new post there that includes links to the source article and this thread.

Here is a link to that thread I made about Venezuela.

Venezuela - A Real Time History Lesson

The gun take away is mentioned there, but I haven't added new information to that thread lately.

Flag and star.




posted on Dec, 14 2018 @ 10:50 PM
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Meh. 3rd world countries gonna 3rd world. The rest of the developed world has shown us that our 2nd amendment is ridiculous, and that some socialist ideas are very beneficial to the population. They pay taxes, like we do, don't pay for health insurance, and get taken care of if they're sick. We shoot up schools, and the parents of the surviving children have to pay for the resulting healthcare on top of taxes and insurance. Even then they may get shot at the doctor's office. #pew #pew #murika



posted on Dec, 15 2018 @ 06:11 AM
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originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: network dude

I don't agree with the part about video games, but otherwise


I just think it needs to be part of the discussion. There isn't any ONE thing that makes kids into killers.



posted on Dec, 15 2018 @ 09:54 AM
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a reply to: Blaine91555

You sound like the government shills telling how they are all in panic,from what I have seen the Venenzuelians are happy to have their own currency,and not be controlled by the US govt,more crap to promote corporate raping of countries



posted on Dec, 15 2018 @ 03:28 PM
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a reply to: network dude

I think before I'd suspect video games, I'd look at the environment they grew up in. A lot of psychological torture goes on in some homes including the latch key kids who often may as well not have parents. That's often left unsaid, but I think it leads to some messed up adults and teens angry at the world.
edit on 12/15/2018 by Blaine91555 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2018 @ 04:05 PM
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a reply to: Oldtimer2

It's so bad there three million of them fled.
It's so bad there they had to start eating their pets.
It's so bad there they even started eating the zoo animals to survive.

Have you been asleep the last few years? You seem completely out of touch?

Socialism sounds great in theory until you inject human beings into the story.

What corporate raping? You really don't know what happened there when Chavez took over private industry and took a potentially wealthy country and destroyed it's wealth? You have some catching up to do. Venezuela is now an armpit.

Venezuela is worlds most dangerous country.

(CNN)Venezuela ranked as the most dangerous country in the world for the second straight year according to a new Gallup survey, falling below conflict-torn nations including Afghanistan and South Sudan in terms of perceptions of security.
Among the findings, the survey revealed that 42% of Venezuelans had property or money stolen in 2017, and nearly 25% of Venezuelans had been assaulted, one of the highest rates of assault in the world, according to the survey...

...Venezuela has been in a state of crisis for years, roiled by political turmoil, mass protests, food and medicine shortages, a soaring drug trade and one of the highest homicide rates in the world, according to the Venezuelan Violence Observatory.


More

The food and medicine shortages, soaring prices, political instability and violence have forced tens of thousands of Venezuelans to flee.
Nearly 2 million Venezuelans have left the country since 1999, when the populist regime took over, according to Tomas Paez, a professor at the Central University of Venezuela in Caracas and an expert on emigration.
And they're the top asylum seekers in the US, ahead of citizens from China, Mexico, Guatemala and El Salvador. It's the first time Venezuelans have topped the list.


The economy

(CNN)How worthless is the bolivar, Venezuela's currency? You'd be better off investing in fictional currency from a video game.
The virtual gold in "World of Warcraft," the online role-playing game, is now almost seven times more valuable than real cash from Venezuela, whose economy is in shambles...

...More than a year ago, one US dollar went for about 3,100 bolivares. Since then, the bolivar has lost 98% of its value.
In response Venezuela's government launched the world's first sovereign cryptocurrency, the petro, in February. One token cost $60. The petro can only be bought with other world currencies, and it's unclear how investors will be able to sell it.


"The Venezuelans are happy"? Where are you getting that nonsense from? Maduro's propaganda ministry perhaps?



posted on Dec, 15 2018 @ 04:56 PM
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originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: DBCowboy

I see it as warning in giant neon letters staring us in the face.

I'm tempted at times when watching all the shootings that happen to say that perhaps a little more gun control may be a good idea. Then I come to my senses and take a look at the world around us for lessons in what the truth of it is.


When Parkland happened, I was ready to hear some options, .....as long as they weren't the same old tired ones.....they were.

Mention mental health, you get crickets. Mention video games, you get pummeled by all sides. So with results like that, I'm with you. No talk, just keep them clean and oiled.


What's funny about this is, gun control advocates cry (falsely) that the CDC can't study gun violence. They can, and they do. President Obama asked them to study it after Newtown. They came back and said gun control is usually ineffective, and things like mental health and the effect of media (not just games) needs a hard look.

Conveniently, the media forgot all about that CDC study. Link in my sig if anyone is interested.



posted on Dec, 15 2018 @ 06:08 PM
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a reply to: Blaine91555




"The Venezuelans are happy"? Where are you getting that nonsense from?
Maduro's propaganda ministry perhaps?


He can't be getting it from any where else. Even normally left slanting publications like Newsweek have commented about the conditions that are slowly, or not so slowly, deteriorating in the country.




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