$15 Minimum Wage - Real World Results

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: ketsuko

Working for less than minimum wage to survive?

Where can you survive on 10-12-13 an hour ???

When you don't have a choice, you'd be surprised at what you do. I am not talking long term, but any money coming in is better than no money coming in.

If you've never been there, than you obviously don't know what I am speaking of. So you can spout off your grand delusion about not accepting anything less than ... but when your alternatives are less than or nothing ... I can tell you that less than is better than nothing because I've been there.

originally posted by: amazing
These lower wage jobs, are starter jobs and part time jobs. Historically it's always been that way and with hard work and studying you move up and over to better jobs.

Example. Pizza hut...part time minumum wage...work hard..get to full time or just below full time. Not really enough to live on. Work harder study every manual they have there and become an expert, get shift manager. Now your above minimum wage...almost make a living....work even harder...make it to assitant manager. Now your salary, benefits and can live off of that wage.

Once you've got some experience...you can move laterally to another industry as a manager making even more money. Say a call center...then at the call center to the IT department....then from help desk 1 to help desk 2...keep going to sys admin or move latterally to a different industry.

That's how it's done. You don't raise the money the pizza hut cook/dishwaher is making. Then there is no incentive to move up and work harder...and then all the entry level cook/dishwasher jobs are taken by the older generation...creating a situation where there are no entry level jobs.

Using the restaraunt example...managers must use labor cost based on historical data to plan how many people will work a shift. If you are paying out more wages then you're making, you have to cut out some people. That creates a skeleton crew of stressed out people. Say 3 people working a busy shift...one at the counter, second one cooking and the third one floating to wherever they're needed. Doing the job of 6 people.

All you do when you raise the minumum wage is cut out 3 jobs and make people hate their jobs.

Generations of people have followed that path... people who manage their careers understand how to move up the ladder.

The fallacy in the thinking of some like Toysforadults is that people never move up or change jobs. The person working minimum wage is doomed to stay minimum wage forever which really isn't the case.

Yes, there are some people who never really get beyond minimum wage but the reality is that the vast majority of those folks are stuck in those jobs due to other issues... lack of skills, felonies, low to no education, etc.

a reply to: Edumakated

This is ridiculous. Your whole video says absolutely nothing, so some guy now went automated. He would have went automated in the first place, but it was cheaper to hire people. And now the people that used to work in washing cars, are washing cars on the street in a little wash on the spot business for 15$ a car.

And guess what? There making more money doing that, working for themselves by getting customers, then if they worked for a business doing the same thing at 15$ an hour, and way more then they would before this minimum wage thing came in effect.

Which makes sense, that the more they get payd the more they make. I mean look at politics game, and the lobbying game or the whole of wall-street, they give themselves raises all the time. And they produce absolutely nothing most of the time, and yet. Well lets just say that it works. It's patent proven right there, making money and wealth, out of nothing.

So as you can see, that whole video is a waste of time. I have thought at your argument about how this is changing the economy and all that. I have come to the conclusion that it is a retarded argument of fools. If anything. I would say that there is to little change in the economy and job markets, and # its just as likely that in time if everything becomes automated people will just figure something out and move on from supporting it, then that the whole economy will collapse.

But off course, the most prevalent is that the more things change. The more they stay the same. This is a none issue. I don't see a reason to even read beyond the first page.

a reply to: toysforadults

here's what I think would wake you up, everyone who works in the supply chain should go on strike and refuse to work for less than $25 an hour.

If it's an unskilled position striking, their position will be filled by someone willing to do the work fairly quickly. If it's a skilled position in the chain, they probably already make at least $25/hr.

Almost every single minimum wage job out there has the potential for advancement. A general manager at in-n-out (a fast food burger joint) makes $160,000 a year.

It all about an individual's attitude, priorities, and perseverance.

a reply to: toysforadults
Don't you think half a loaf of bread is better than no loaf at all.

originally posted by: Ansuzrune
a reply to: toysforadults
Don't you think half a loaf of bread is better than no loaf at all.

People who have starved do. People who never have still won't ever get it.

a reply to: toysforadults

It's simple , don't work for them . If the company can't find laborers at minimum wage then they will have to pay more . My issue is people with families working low wage jobs ( sometimes two or three ) If you can't support a family don't have one . I know it may sound harsh , but that is reality

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: toysforadults

Imagine not being able to find a job at minimum and needing money to make ends meet, so you work at what you can because you don't want to stoop to welfare.

Those people exist you know. In fact, quite a few of the illegal aliens in this country do this although many have kids who do collect full benefits from welfare so they double dip.

It's a myth that lower wages make for more jobs. Consumption goes up with higher wages.

The opposite is more likely. Suppose we build a highly automated society where 15% of the work force is able to provide the subsistence needs of everyone.

If workers a negotiating down to a subsistence wage to compete, then only 15% of the population would ever get a job. There would be no demand for non-subsistence items.

And when only 15% of the population has a job, competition will get MORE fierce, not less fierce, which would force EVERYONE who wanted to be in that 15% to accept a subsistence wage.



Now switch over to a situation where workers make higher than subsistence wages (forced or non-forced.) We'd still only be hiring 15% of the population to produce subsistence goods. But due to the extra available demand/income, there are now additional jobs for the other 85% to do.

Stuff like giving backrubs, or building decks. Making video game systems, or building sets for movies.

None of those jobs will exist unless we keep the majority of the population earning a wage higher than subsistence.

a reply to: toysforadults

You can survive just fine on $13/hr in southwest Missouri, thank you.

a reply to: ketsuko
Then come up with the answer. Beat your self up until you have a workable one. This is life. Rough. Some have a silver spoon some do not. This is the ultimate question, why? I go through the check out at the grocery store and many times give 20$ to harvesters. It is a help not a solution. 10outlaw is right. Don't have kids or many kids if you don't have a plan. Failure to plan is planning to fail. It is those of you that strut around and make me or others feel responsible. Find a cave. Meditate for a day or years. When you have the answer give it and may your cup be at least half full.

People need to realize that unskilled minimum wage jobs are going to be automated.

If politicians or others force the wage up, then they will be automated sooner.

I read one article that said something to the effect that we will lose 50% of entry level positions in the next 20 years.

If you don't have skills, get them or you will be replaced by a machine

a reply to: Vector99

First off In-N-Out isn't a great example for your point. Starting employees make $13 an hour. $2 higher than California minimum wage.

Ignoring that though, In-N-Out employs 16,000 people but only has 342 locations. So even if all of those employees were extreme go-getters there are only 342 GM positions. Should the other 15,658 employees quit and move to another company that pays less so they have the prospect of becoming GM? What happens when all those GM positions are taken up?

It's all well and good to say people in low paying jobs should strive for promotions. But there are only so many promotions to be handed out. Should we condemn all those people that worked just as hard as the person that got promoted but got passed over to poverty?

a reply to: toysforadults

I certainly don't make that kind of cash even though I could because of my skillset. I chose a job I enjoy more rather than a job making the most money. I am still highly skilled and make a wage I consider acceptable to the work I do. It's nowhere near $25 an hour though. Along with my wife's work, we do quite well. We aren't poor.
If someone coming into the workforce at 16 or 18 made $25 an hour, well, it would make me sad. Because the economy would break down. In a week. That's not how it works. Everyone who works knows this.

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Xtrozero

does it take you 40+ hours to mow my lawn?

you see how your argument doesn't make any sense?

You have to consider the area and what the cost of living is in each. Everyplace is not the same and some places no business could afford to pay people high wages and still exist. A small business in a poor area gives some means of job entry to young people when otherwise there would be none.
Many businesses have so little profit alreaDY THEY LIVE NOT MUCH ABOVE THE LEVEL OF THEIR EMPLOYEES.
Sorry bumped caps AGAIN!!! I do that all of the time! old fat fingers!

a reply to: Edumakated

In addition, the laws also created a black market.

As they always do

Yet you still have complete idiots out there trying to legislate something they don't like away, vs. using the legal system as its intended to punish specific criminal conduct when a victim makes a complaint.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Vector99

First off In-N-Out isn't a great example for your point. Starting employees make $13 an hour. $2 higher than California minimum wage.

Ignoring that though, In-N-Out employs 16,000 people but only has 342 locations. So even if all of those employees were extreme go-getters there are only 342 GM positions. Should the other 15,658 employees quit and move to another company that pays less so they have the prospect of becoming GM? What happens when all those GM positions are taken up?

It's all well and good to say people in low paying jobs should strive for promotions. But there are only so many promotions to be handed out. Should we condemn all those people that worked just as hard as the person that got promoted but got passed over to poverty?

It is called changing jobs. I know a ton of people who at one point worked in fast food and they are 1%er's now income wise.

You gain some skill, move up or change jobs. It is called managing your career and life.

a reply to: Ansuzrune

I was actually agreeing with you.

If you've ever been in a position where you absolutely have to make do, then you make do. There is no question of sitting on your @ss waiting for that $15/hour job to come around because you have some kind of principle to uphold. If you need to eat, you work the job that's offered, even if it only makes $8/hour, even if you might have to hold down two of those for a time.

Nothing ever says you can't keep looking for the other job, but you have to keep eating in the meantime.

a reply to: [post=24034307]ketsuko[/post
Sorry misunderstood your intent. All good. Merry Christmas!!

a reply to: Ansuzrune

S'allright. I get that. No worries. It takes a lot more than that to ruffle my feathers when I internet.

originally posted by: TheLead
a reply to: toysforadults

So when these people become dependant on the gov't they become what exactly?

Free apparantly lol.