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Comey: Dossier Was Unverified Before And After FBI Used It To Obtain Spy Warrants

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posted on Dec, 12 2018 @ 03:57 PM
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originally posted by: kingsquirel
Agree totally with you op if our Congress doesn't do anything with this blatant sedition of our election process then; The House, and Senate might as well go home as we are now in a totalitarian system


Honest question:
Are you referring to the FBI investigating covert Russian contacts with the Trump Campaign while the FSB and GRU launched a political campaign to benefit President Trump or are you referring to Russians?

Because the House and Senate certainly had/has an obligation to sincerely investigate the matter and the FBI also had/has an obligation to investigate the matter.


edit on 12-12-2018 by Extorris because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 12 2018 @ 04:57 PM
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The FBI was following procedure when keeping Hillary Clinton's identity sealed. I believe this procedure is called minimalization, and it is to protect the identities of Americans. It is not, however, because the FBI was biased for Hillary. If anything, if the FBI had gone AGAINST procedure and unmasked Hillary's identity, that could be considered a biased decision.

This needs to be handled as a policy change, not as if the FBI was biased. Would it even be a good idea to have a policy of reducing minimalization in the FISA process? For example, even though it was obvious, "Candidate 1's" identity was also protected out of policy, for as much as it was worth.

I showed that there was more than enough reason to suspect that there was more information than the dossier in the FISA warrant against Page. That is something you will have to wait and see for.


Aside from that, Papadopoulos story is irrelevant to the fisa warrant to spy on page. We know the dossier was a large of not most important part of that


Do we? That claim sounds like it has just as much merit as my claim that it was NOT central to the FISA warrant.

I found a link to the FISA application:

FISA Application PDF
edit on 12pmWed, 12 Dec 2018 16:58:01 -0600kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 12 2018 @ 05:22 PM
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a reply to: darkbake

They could have let them know it was paid for by the democratic opponent for president

That wouldn’t have used her name, the same way calling trump candidate one protected his name

And what does Papadopoulos have anything to do with spying on page?



posted on Dec, 12 2018 @ 07:29 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: rnaa

So your own post shows the fbi did not tell the court Hillary’s team paid for it


No it doesn't. It says that it was initiated by 'individual #1' specifically to get information against 'candidate #1'. That is shouting through a foghorn that the dossier was created for political purposes and may be biased. We now know that 'individual #1' was not the Democrats nor the Republicans, but a middle man (FusionGPS) who shopped the research to the Democrats when the original Republican instigators renegged. Notice that the REPUBLICANS initiated the job with FusionGPS.

FBI Would’ve Been Derelict Not to Use Steele Dossier for the Carter Page FISA Warrant


The facts also do not support McCarthy’s second point (one that Congressman Devin Nunes misleadingly emphasized in his infamous memo about the warrant): that the FISA court was not informed about the Clinton campaign’s financial support for Christopher Steele’s work. In fact, the original application included more than a one-page footnote extensively informing the court about the fact that Steele was hired essentially to dig up dirt on Donald Trump, which more than adequately informs a court of his potential bias. Whether the Clinton campaign was the source of the payments — which Steele has testified before Congress that he did not know, because he was retained by Fusion GPS — is irrelevant to the substance of the disclosure of potential bias. Nothing more is required or necessary in a warrant application than revealing the fact of a source’s potential for bias.




Nor does it say anywhere that the fbi admits it was unverified



... the crux of McCarthy’s argument, is that the FBI did not properly “verify” the information in the application, which is a technical requirement in a FISA application. McCarthy claims that the FBI was not permitted to rely solely on hearsay information provided by Steele, its source of information, but rather was required to test the credibility of, and reliance on, each sub-source who gave information to Steele. But that is simply not what is required in FISA applications (or criminal wiretap applications), and in particular under the Woods Procedures that govern FISA applications. Under FISA, “verification” simply requires both the FBI and lawyers in the Department of Justice to verify that the facts as set forth in the affidavit are supported by evidence obtained as part of the investigation. That does not mean, however, that the FBI is required, for example, to travel to Russia to interview a sub-source to confirm that the sub-source actually did tell Steele what Steele reported to the FBI. That, of course, almost certainly would not be possible. It is therefore not surprising that McCarthy cites no authority for his assertion that such a step is required.





Also you don’t even have base facts we know correct

The republicans paying for oppo research stopped before the dossier was even started or Steele was hired

Yet here you repeat that lie


You are the one repeating the lie:
Timeline: The birth of the Russia investigation


2015 Autumn. The conservative website the Washington Free Beacon hires a firm called Fusion GPS to conduct research on several Republican presidential candidates, including Trump.
...
2016 April. Perkins Coie, a law firm working for the Clinton campaign and the DNC, hires Fusion GPS to investigate Trump’s ties to Russia. Fusion at some point employs Nellie Ohr, wife of Justice Department official Bruce Ohr, as a contractor.


So what was FusionGPS doing between Autumn 2015 and April 2016? Note that they were HIRED by WFB to do some work for them. They must have been paid for that work, don't you think. And now FusionGPS has stuff that probably still has some value to other potential clients. So they shop it around and find another source of funds. Why is that so hard to understand? It isn't rocket science, you know.



Oh and eta:

I love how on one hand people are saying the fbi was forthright that the dossier was not verified

But in the other hand they are saying the redacted portions verify the dossier


The FISA court requirement is that they verify the information is from a reliable source, and that is exactly what the FBI did. They are not required to verify that the information detail is necessarily true. Part of the purpose of the FISA warrant is to gather information that can validate or debunk that information detail - that is what is called an 'investigation'.

Again, you are perpetuating a lie based on an erroneous interpretation of the facts.



Because you are just parroting the msm which is notninterested in the truth or consistency but rather being the mouth piece for the intel community


You are just parroting the alt-facts conspiracy generators who are not interested in the reality of the world we live in but in generating FUD and unwarranted outrage just for the sake of generating outrage.
edit on 12/12/2018 by rnaa because: markup



posted on Dec, 12 2018 @ 07:35 PM
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a reply to: rnaa

Again the dossier was not started nor was Steele hires until after republicans stopped paying fusion

You can spin all you want, that is the facts as your own source says

No the fbi can’t just provide hearsay based on a source without verifying it

As the McCarthy article I cited shows

So you are saying that now any presidential amapiagm may be spied in if a paid operative claims they heard from agents of a foreign power that that candidate has Russian spies working for them

Ok fine

So I am sure when trumo pays a foreign spy to say all the Dems are Chinese spies, and none of that is verified, he may wiretap all of them

This is so dumb it’s beyond belief



posted on Dec, 12 2018 @ 07:44 PM
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originally posted by: darkbake
The FBI was following procedure when keeping Hillary Clinton's identity sealed. I believe this procedure is called minimalization, and it is to protect the identities of Americans. It is not, however, because the FBI was biased for Hillary. If anything, if the FBI had gone AGAINST procedure and unmasked Hillary's identity, that could be considered a biased decision.


More precisely, the identity they kept 'sealed' was that of Fusion GPS (individual #1) and Donald Trump (candidate #1).

Steele did not know (at the time) who FusionGPS client was, however it would be rather obvious who wanted dirt on Trump at any given time, though I suppose it isn't beyond the pale to imagine that a candidate could have a 'dirt finding' project on themselves in order to find out where their vulnerabilities are.

FusionGPS was in fact paid by both the Republicans (until Trump sewed up the nomination) and the Democrats (starting 6 months later when FusionGPS was able to strike a deal).



posted on Dec, 12 2018 @ 07:47 PM
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originally posted by: shooterbrody


The fbi fired steele as an informant prior to using his dossier in the fisa court.
really reliable?


They fired him because he violated procedure by leaking the dossier to the press, not because his work was unreliable.



posted on Dec, 12 2018 @ 07:50 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

" Comey: Dossier Was Unverified Before And After FBI Used It To Obtain Spy Warrants "


Ah , so WHY did they Use it Knowing that ? ........PEOPLE WANNA KNOW ........
edit on 12-12-2018 by Zanti Misfit because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 12 2018 @ 07:52 PM
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originally posted by: rnaa

originally posted by: shooterbrody


The fbi fired steele as an informant prior to using his dossier in the fisa court.
really reliable?


They fired him because he violated procedure by leaking the dossier to the press, not because his work was unreliable.


So this reliable source wasn’t reliable enough to not violate fbi orders to jot talk to the press?

Sounds legit!



posted on Dec, 12 2018 @ 07:52 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: darkbake

They could have let them know it was paid for by the democratic opponent for president

That wouldn’t have used her name, the same way calling trump candidate one protected his name


They specifically said it was assembled for the purpose of gathering dirt that could used against candidate #1 in the campaign. If it is obvious that individual #1 is FusionGPS and candidate #1 is Trump, isn't it just as obvious who would want dirt on candidate #1? (hint: before the Nominating Convention => Republicans; after the Nominating Convention => Democrats).

Judges aren't as unthinking as you apparently are.



posted on Dec, 12 2018 @ 08:20 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: darkbake

And what does Papadopoulos have anything to do with spying on page?


Papadopoulos is the braggart that leaked the allegation that Russians had the emails. Papadopoulos worked for or with Page on foreign policy advice for the campaign. Page has been under watch by the FBI since at least 2013 because he was being actively recruited by Russian agents. The connection is a line of inquiry.



posted on Dec, 12 2018 @ 08:31 PM
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a reply to: Grambler



So you are saying that now any presidential amapiagm may be spied in if a paid operative claims they heard from agents of a foreign power that that candidate has Russian spies working for them


So you are saying that Russian spies operating in America should not be investigated? How very un-McCarthyist of you.

The FISA warrant was NOT 'AGAINST' THE CAMPAIGN. It was against Carter Page, suspected of being a Russian agent since at least 2013.

However, the campaign got dragged into it because Page went to work for the campaign specifically on his Russian contact background, and the Russians are being accused of illegally interfering in the election (a separate investigation).

Of course, to the degree that Page working for the campaign and Russian interference are not coincidental, the two investigations would be merged.



posted on Dec, 12 2018 @ 08:41 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: rnaa

Again the dossier was not started nor was Steele hires until after republicans stopped paying fusion



The information in the dossier was gathered beginning in at least 2014, long before Trump announced his candidacy for 2016.

FusionGPS had been working on Trump dirt since 2015. In the process of that digging, they found Steele.



posted on Dec, 13 2018 @ 12:09 AM
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a reply to: Grambler

This is exactly why I feel that we need an extreme set of events to transpire so as to level the playing field.

During a real crisis, the corrupt become human and fearful as their usual mechanism for power is tied up fighting for its own survival.

Next big event should be taken advantage of to just purge. Have a silent paramilitary operation be given the green light to remove people in power who actively harm our country.

The FISA court is entirely corrupt and lawless if the process to spy on our citizens isn't thoroughly balanced with oversight and protection from abuse.

It's basically the power of a king to initiate an inquisition against his rivals. In a democracy, it just invalidates said democracy.

We may no longer live in a representative democratic republic. We may now live in an autocracy. The king is established by being the most ruthless and lawless SOB in the running. Criminals will excel and lawful leaders will be discouraged.

edit on 12 13 2018 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2018 @ 09:24 AM
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originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: darkbake

They could have let them know it was paid for by the democratic opponent for president



From the FISA Warrant:


U.S.-based law firm had hired the identified US. person to conduct research regarding Candidate #1's ties to Russia (the identified U.S. person and Source #1 have a long-standing business relationship).

The identified US person hired Source #1 to conduct this research.

The identified US. person never advised Source #1 as to the motivation behind the research into Candidate #1's ties to Russia.

The FBI speculates that the identified US person was likely looking for information that could be used to discredit Candidate #1's campaign.


If the FBI stated that the Dossier was paid for by "by the democratic opponent for president" that would be inaccurate or at least misleading by omission.

In October 2015, Fusion GPS was contracted by conservative political website The Washington Free Beacon, owned/funded by Billionaire Paul Singer, a backer of candidate Marco Rubio at the time.

Paul Singer ended his contract with Fusion GPS once President Trump became the presumptive GOP Nominee around the end of April 2016 beginning of May 2016 when Cruz and Kasich drop out of the race.

Marc Elias then hired Fusion GPS to to continue the work on behalf of Hillary Clinton's campaign and the DNC, although it is not clear that Christoper Steele or officials at the DNC was aware of it at the time.

Given that, I think it would not have been honest to characterize the Dossier as paid for by "by the democratic opponent for president" as you suggest.

The most relevant point was in fact communicated in my opinion:
"likely looking for information that could be used to discredit Candidate #1's campaign."

The above would seem to tell a judge everything he needs to know about potential bias of the evidence.

Other things to consider is that the FISA Warrant was 412 pages with the vast majority redacted. There seems to be a narrative being put forth that the "Dossier" was the principle item of evidence. The Warrant application that was released by the WH appears to have been virtually entirely redacted, literally hundreds of pages, except for evidence relating to the Dossier. This seems intentionally misleading.

The very heavily redacted FISA application here:
www.cnn.com...



posted on Dec, 13 2018 @ 09:31 AM
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originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: Grambler

This is exactly why I feel that we need an extreme set of events to transpire so as to level the playing field.

During a real crisis, the corrupt become human and fearful as their usual mechanism for power is tied up fighting for its own survival.

Next big event should be taken advantage of to just purge. Have a silent paramilitary operation be given the green light to remove people in power who actively harm our country.


That sounds like you are advocating for a military coup d'etat to remove or "purge" democratically elected and appointed officials.

It is disappointing that there are ATS posters who engage in such dark and tyrannical fantasies.



posted on Dec, 13 2018 @ 12:45 PM
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originally posted by: rnaa

originally posted by: shooterbrody


The fbi fired steele as an informant prior to using his dossier in the fisa court.
really reliable?


They fired him because he violated procedure by leaking the dossier to the press, not because his work was unreliable.

they should have told the fisa court that regurdless otherwise it is fraud
this is not some wiretap warrant from a county judge
the rules are different and much more stringent for a fisa warrant

also



in December 2017, then FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe testified that “no surveillance warrant would have been sought” from the FISA court “without the Steele dossier information.”

square that if can
edit on 13/12/2018 by shooterbrody because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2018 @ 01:18 PM
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a reply to: Extorris

Gowdy, who has seen the warrant application said it wouldn't have been able to have been obtained without the dossier. He also says a Yahoo report was used, which we now know was from the FBI leaking to create a second source where none existed.

www.cbsnews.com...



posted on Dec, 13 2018 @ 01:33 PM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04




He also says a Yahoo report was used, which we now know was from the FBI leaking to create a second source where none existed.

I think that is the "circular" reporting we hear so much about.
They are in hot water over the fisa warrant abuse.



posted on Dec, 13 2018 @ 03:37 PM
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a reply to: Extorris

People act like that is unthinkable. It's a consequence to a finite set of circumstances. No one is immune to life and human nature.

Be corrupt with absolute power and you will be killed at the first opportunity. Why? Because no one will just let you kill them with words and the actions of others being ordered.

Get real.


edit on 12 13 2018 by tadaman because: (no reason given)




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