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posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 12:42 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: BlackJackal


Trump said a lot about Comey as did the left who screamed for his firing months earlier...

So the left is also talking about investigating all of Trump's tax filings, and any deals he has made in his life. This is an example of a group that wants to find anything they can across a person's life to take them down...lol if you can't see that then I don't know what to say.

What if the FBI as normal practice spent two years and 10s of millions on every top Government official to look at their lives from High School on to see if they can apply any of the millions of laws on the books? Would we have a single person in Congress or any top level position including all the alphabet agencies? Or ever see a single person run for any office anywhere? What if in the past EVERYTHING deemed private was displayed in public as part of any high profile government position? I would bet EVERYONE in our Government history would not be there.


You know the truth is that if Agent Orange and gang didn't act so damn sketchy there probably wouldn't have been an investigation. Sure, there is a subset of the left that just wants to investigate Donny for investigation sake but that's not me or the general public. I just want to know the truth and I want those who committed crimes to be held accountable. That's it.

You try to make this sound like it's the Democrats who started the Mueller investigation...... You do know that it was started by a republican right? And one appointed to his post by none other than Trump himself. But I suppose that in your mind somehow them scary Democrats infiltrated Rod Rosenstein's head. It's not possible that Rosenstein was just doing his job to the best of his ability is it?



Trump shows frustration saying from day one that nothing is there as he tries to run a country. Almost two years later there is zero Russian collusion even though the FBI is going after everyone on anything they can find to squeeze information about Russia and still nothing.....


Ok, you are obviously either living under a rock or wilfully ignorant. Admittedly I wish we knew more but the Mueller investigation has been notoriously tight lipped and the only time we get information is when they file court filings. But even with heavily redacted court filings we have learned quite a bit.


  • 15 People from the Trump Campaign had contacts with Russia during the campaign.
  • 97 separate contacts between the Trump campaign and Russia including 28 meetings.
  • The changing story of the Trump Tower meeting (it was adoptions, it was about Hillary but we didn't get anything, sure it was about Hillary and we got stuff but so what)
  • Cohen's testimony to Congress about the Trump Russia tower turned out to be false (This testimony is central to the House Intelligence Committee's report which claimed there was no collusion)
  • Cohen was in direct contact with someone in the Kremlin to work on the Russia Tower deal (Even though Trump has famously claimed multiple times that he has NEVER had dealings in Russia)
  • Trump signed a LOI to work with the Russian state owned bank VTB to build said Tower (BTW, VTB is a sanctioned bank that is illegal for American citizens to work with, yet Trump signed a LOI with them)
  • There are emails between Felix Sater and Cohen talking about Ivanka sitting in Putin's office and discussing setting up a meeting between Trump and Putin.
  • There is another email between Sater and Cohen talking about securing Putin's assistance in getting Trump to be president
  • There is an email to Don Trump Jr that states directly "this is part of the Russian governments support of your father's campaign.


That is just some of the highlights but there are tons more if you really care. But I really don't think you do.

LINK


Holy#, don't get me started on Obama, are you that daft?

Here is just a tidbit for you...


Then by all means, if there is evidence for this things claimed in the article investigate. Republican's currently control the DOJ so it should be very easy for them to open these investigations. I have said it before and I will say it again, if there is a crime then by all means bring the perpetrator to justice.

But the question is, Can you say the same thing about yourself? Because you definitely appear to be arguing for the investigation into Trump to be called off. Even when he is directly linked to two felonies you seem to be arguing that it's unfair for him.

Am I mistaken? Do you really want the investigation to reach it's conclusion? Do you really want to see justice done if Trump and company committed a felony?


The investigation has long stopped being about Russia over a year ago...and that is why it is now a witch hunt. You all want Trump's life picked apart with a fine tooth comb and events like I posted above is nothing to you.


See above. No, I'm very sorry but the investigation into Russia continues. This case concerning the payments to Stormey Daniels is a completely separate criminal case being handled by the SDNY (Which happens to be run by a man personally interviewed and appointed by Donald Trump)

You appear to have some serious projection issues. You are accusing me of not wanting to see justice done but in reality it is you who doesn't want to see justice done when it applies to Trump. If Obama was suspected of the exact same things as Trump I would be the first person calling for his head. It's obvious that doesn't apply to you.




posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 12:45 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: BlackJackal

Wait, I'm confused. Where are the Russians in all this again? Isn't that what all this investigating about? If not, then Mueller's whole investigation is exactly what it has been charged to be -- an investigation in search of a crime or a witch hunt.


For like the millionth time in this damn thread THIS IS NOT PART OF MUELLER'S INVESTIGATION. This is a completely separate criminal investigation being led by the SDNY, by a guy personally interviewed and appointed by Donald Trump himself.

You would think if you had the balls to post in such a self-righteous fashion you would at least have the brains to make sure you knew what the hell you were talking about.



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 12:47 PM
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Isn’t a hush fund illegal by influencing an election if it keeps allegations of sexual misconduct under wraps during an election?



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 12:51 PM
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a reply to: BlackJackal

Unhinged from the fact there is no credibility to any of the allegations? Or just the hypocrisy of liberals/progressives? Or the balance of power and equal application of the law written into the constitution is gone with the wind?



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 01:09 PM
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originally posted by: BlackJackal

You know the truth is that if Agent Orange and gang didn't act so damn sketchy there probably wouldn't have been an investigation. Sure, there is a subset of the left that just wants to investigate Donny for investigation sake but that's not me or the general public. I just want to know the truth and I want those who committed crimes to be held accountable. That's it.


The 95% liberal media making everything sketchy..including Trump getting 2 scoops of ice cream and everyone else gets 1 scoop. Don't you see any of this? lol geez...

Remember Trump was a Hollywood darling not too long ago, they loved him, took pictures with him all BFFs like..lol Now he is the enemy of the left, and they need to take him out.. Your comment is perfect example of this...
"Agent Orange and gang didn't act so damn sketchy"... We got to find something..anything, so keep looking until we do...



You try to make this sound like it's the Democrats who started the Mueller investigation...... You do know that it was started by a republican right? And one appointed to his post by none other than Trump himself. But I suppose that in your mind somehow them scary Democrats infiltrated Rod Rosenstein's head. It's not possible that Rosenstein was just doing his job to the best of his ability is it?


Investigate...OK...then move on...end of story... the dossier was proven to be false and paid for by Hillary and the DNC. False facts supporting FISA warrant(s), so should this investigation gone down that path, maybe? And not whether Trump had sex 12 years ago, or totally unrelated dealings of people that worked abound him for a small period of time?



Ok, you are obviously either living under a rock or wilfully ignorant. Admittedly I wish we knew more but the Mueller investigation has been notoriously tight lipped and the only time we get information is when they file court filings. But even with heavily redacted court filings we have learned quite a bit.


In the end IF Trump colluded with the Russians then fine, burn him...but can we stick to that? ALL that you wrote means nothing, is nothing OR THE DEMS WOULD BE PUSHING IT. No they push maybe having sex 12 years ago and being extorted for it as their reason for impeachment. Why is that????



You appear to have some serious projection issues. You are accusing me of not wanting to see justice done but in reality it is you who doesn't want to see justice done when it applies to Trump. If Obama was suspected of the exact same things as Trump I would be the first person calling for his head. It's obvious that doesn't apply to you.


The problem is that justice is not the goal here in any of this, other wise Obama can crew along with many in congress and other agencies would be under the same pressure. The deal is 2020, and that is all there is to any of this...



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 01:45 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero
The 95% liberal media making everything sketchy..including Trump getting 2 scoops of ice cream and everyone else gets 1 scoop. Don't you see any of this? lol geez...

Remember Trump was a Hollywood darling not too long ago, they loved him, took pictures with him all BFFs like..lol Now he is the enemy of the left, and they need to take him out.. Your comment is perfect example of this...
"Agent Orange and gang didn't act so damn sketchy"... We got to find something..anything, so keep looking until we do...


Apparently you didn't pick up on what I meant by "sketchy". I mean lying to the media, the American people, investigators and even Congress about their contacts with Russia. Why have so many people associated with Trump lied about their contacts with Russia? If one person lied, well that may be an isolated incident. If two people lied that could just be a fluke. But if a dozen people all lie about the same thing...... That tends to raise questions.

Or do you think we should just ignore it? Do you think we should just drop it all and move on?


Investigate...OK...then move on...end of story... the dossier was proven to be false and paid for by Hillary and the DNC. False facts supporting FISA warrant(s), so should this investigation gone down that path, maybe? And not whether Trump had sex 12 years ago, or totally unrelated dealings of people that worked abound him for a small period of time?


The dossier was proven to be false was it? You got a link for that because all I have seen is that parts of the dossier are being proven TRUE. Yes, the exact opposite of what you claimed without any proof.

Some questions in Trump-Russia dossier now finding answers
Clapper: 'More and more' of Steele dossier proving to be true
Steele dossier: Donald Trump denounced the document as fake, but much of its contents have turned out to be true

Also, it is incredibly misleading to state that the dossier was paid for by Clinton. The first group to pay for the dossier were Republican's during the primaries. Then after Trump won the nomination Clinton and the DNC picked up the bill. But then after Trump became president the FBI continued to foot the bill.

FBI releases documents showing payments to Trump dossier author Steele

So the dossier is not false, on the contrary it is being corroborated so does that mean you now support the investigation? Also, it wasn't paid for only by Hillary Clinton but also by Republicans and the FBI.

Also, no one cares that Trump boned a porn star. Honestly it's kinda expected from a guy as sleazy as Trump but what is of concern is that he committed two felonies while trying to cover up his booty calls. Surely since you are on the right you care about the rule of law right? Shouldn't Trump be punished accordingly if he committed crimes?


In the end IF Trump colluded with the Russians then fine, burn him...but can we stick to that? ALL that you wrote means nothing, is nothing OR THE DEMS WOULD BE PUSHING IT. No they push maybe having sex 12 years ago and being extorted for it as their reason for impeachment. Why is that????


You aren't understanding what I am typing. THIS IS A SEPARATE INVESTIGATION FROM MUELLER STARTED BY ANOTHER REPUBLICAN APPOINTED BY TRUMP HIMSELF. This is not the DEMS pushing anything this is a case brought against Cohen and Trump by the SDNY which is headed by a Trump appointee. I'm sorry but this has nothing to do with Mueller or Democrats, if you have a problem with it you should take it up with the Republicans.


The problem is that justice is not the goal here in any of this, other wise Obama can crew along with many in congress and other agencies would be under the same pressure. The deal is 2020, and that is all there is to any of this...


Surely you have proof to back this claim up. This isn't just how you feel is it?

Look, if Obama was as bad as you seem to think he is then why isn't the Republican controlled DOJ going after him? If he really is such a bad guy and the case is as cut and dry as you feel it is then they would be on it like a dog on a bone.

The reality is probably that everything you referenced earlier was completely legal. I'm not saying I agree with it, but the elites get away with gaming the system all the time and it happens on both sides of the isle. The Republicans and Democrats keep people like you and me upset about stupid crap while they make themselves rich at our expense.



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 01:47 PM
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originally posted by: neutronflux
Isn’t a hush fund illegal by influencing an election if it keeps allegations of sexual misconduct under wraps during an election?


I'm afraid the hush fund was completely legal. It was setup in 1995 as part of the Congressional Accountability Act. It's just another way that Republicans and Democrats play the public while they themselves get away with murder.



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 02:06 PM
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originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: DBCowboy

I thought they were crying about it because it was a campaign finance violation?



Specifically it was a scheme to break campaign laws and disclosures via covert arrangements with the editor of the National Enquirer and two different shell companies that were set up, plus false invoices and tax reporting via the Trump Organization.

President Trump's former Personal Attorney testified in court this was done at the direction of and in coordination with President Trump.

It was the intent and deliberate scheme put into place along with full awareness it was illegal that differentiates this from most campaign finance violations. Error vs. conspiracy to defraud.

That said, whether or not that single offense warrants impeachment is a political decision, not a prosecutorial decision.

I would also predict that any impeachment proceedings would include a range of offenses, not just the illegal payments.






edit on 11-12-2018 by Extorris because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 02:28 PM
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a reply to: Extorris

I predict the House will try to impeach him. I predict the Senate will not.

The House has to. They need the talking point for 2020. "Will you vote for an impeached man?!"

Of course, then you contrast Clinton and the blue dress with $130,000 and remind everyone it is was all just for sex.



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 02:45 PM
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originally posted by: BlackJackal

Or do you think we should just ignore it? Do you think we should just drop it all and move on?


As I have said many time put up or shut up with Mueller's team. Right now either Trump is so smart he can outwit the FBI, don't think so... the FBI is really inept, don't think so... or the FBI just doesn't have much of anything...Think so...



The dossier was proven to be false was it? You got a link for that because all I have seen is that parts of the dossier are being proven TRUE. Yes, the exact opposite of what you claimed without any proof.


You will believe what you want...



Also, it is incredibly misleading to state that the dossier was paid for by Clinton. The first group to pay for the dossier were Republican's during the primaries. Then after Trump won the nomination Clinton and the DNC picked up the bill. But then after Trump became president the FBI continued to foot the bill.


The initial start was republicans..dead end, when Hillary and the DNC got hold of it, it blossomed into the report that was paid for by Hillary and the DNC, a report created by foreign actors...used in an election...given to the FBI with little or no vetting and then used in gaining FISA warrants against a primary candidate. Oh BTW key players in all of this in the FBI have been fired by internal investigations because of their bias...don't forget that...geez

Noticed how the whole dossier thing has gone to the wayside...I don't expect it returning anytime soon as you think it is all true..



Also, no one cares that Trump boned a porn star. Honestly it's kinda expected from a guy as sleazy as Trump but what is of concern is that he committed two felonies while trying to cover up his booty calls. Surely since you are on the right you care about the rule of law right? Shouldn't Trump be punished accordingly if he committed crimes?


Long ass way from Russian collusion...lol Once again this will come to nothing...From the tapes Cohen drove this train as his legal counsel as he was being extorted. Going to take a lot to tie it to the campaign, which I don't think they can, so we will see, but hey you already have him "committing a crime, so I guess he is guilty...give me a break.



You aren't understanding what I am typing. THIS IS A SEPARATE INVESTIGATION FROM MUELLER STARTED BY ANOTHER REPUBLICAN APPOINTED BY TRUMP HIMSELF. This is not the DEMS pushing anything this is a case brought against Cohen and Trump by the SDNY which is headed by a Trump appointee. I'm sorry but this has nothing to do with Mueller or Democrats, if you have a problem with it you should take it up with the Republicans.


No I understand this is New York pushing he broke campaign finance laws and so in the past if they can get him on it...don't think they will, the punishment will be like the million of other punishment in these cases in the form of a fine...nothing more nothing less.


Surely you have proof to back this claim up. This isn't just how you feel is it?


Sure if you got 10 hours of watching libs on youtube...lol



The reality is probably that everything you referenced earlier was completely legal. I'm not saying I agree with it, but the elites get away with gaming the system all the time and it happens on both sides of the isle. The Republicans and Democrats keep people like you and me upset about stupid crap while they make themselves rich at our expense.


So all that crap is legal, maybe not... But someone comes to Trumps team and suggests they have dirt on Hillary and when they have a meeting there is nothing , end of story and that is high crimes?

I'm done with this...we can go back and forth all day, but I'll say again... we will need to wait and see will we not? That seems to be a position the left can not understand.



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 03:24 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Extorris

I predict the House will try to impeach him. I predict the Senate will not.

The House has to. They need the talking point for 2020. "Will you vote for an impeached man?!"

Of course, then you contrast Clinton and the blue dress with $130,000 and remind everyone it is was all just for sex.


If or when the House moves to impeach, the Felony Campaign Violations will be a list item, not the headline.



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 04:21 PM
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a reply to: BlackJackal


You can call it whatever you like. Your opinion doesn't matter.

Only those that agree with you matter, eh?


Ok, so you are still arguing that this NDA is valid and that Stormey Daniels broke said NDA and extorted poor ol Agent Orange. I'm sorry but that argument is crap, because the central point of your argument is that the NDA was valid. If that is the case then why did Trump himself state that the NDA was not valid. He also refused to carry out his threats to sue her. So where is this 'real crime' you keep pushing?

The NDA is valid. I explained the extortion angle. You just like to keep pushing your crap on this.

It don't fly.

How many NDAs have you been party to? Have you ever read one?


I have already copied and pasted the allegations into this thread in a response to JinMI, feel free to read it yourself. There is also a tape where Cohen and Trump discuss setting up a shell company to hide this payment. In addition, the prosecutors told the judge that they have evidence to back up these allegations.

I asked for specifics. Which shell companies were used? How was the money transferred? Under what guise?

You got nothing... as usual. As to why I believe Trump over you, it's called past observations.


Do you even read what I say before your respond? Because it sure as hell doesn't appear that way. I literally said "The hush money fund was entirely illegal and I agree more should have come out of it than it did, but it has literally nothing to do with this subject." And you accused me of arguing for unequal application of the law? You are really just throwing anything you possibly can against the wall to see what sticks aren't you? Have you really become that desperate?

Oh, yeah, I saw that... but I also noticed that all of your threads are based on bashing Trump. Show me one... just one... thread you authored about the hush money fund in Congress. Your actions speak much louder than your words.

I'll wait.


With that said, please explain how precedent was set in a case concerning sexual harassment payments for a completely different law? You know, like you said equally applied laws.

I am now completely convinced you wouldn't know an "equally applied law" if it slapped you in the face and announced itself over a loudspeaker. All hush money comes with an NDA. The Congressional hush money was paid out of taxpayer funds, not private funds, just like your (erroneous) argument that Daniels' money was paid out of campaign funds and not private funds.

Show me your venomous attack on Congress because of their actions. I'm still waiting.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 07:30 PM
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a reply to: underwerks

Yah, he is so much dumber than his predecessor who couldn't even get his wife's name right and called her "Michael".

But yah, Trump is so dumb. Dumber than any other President.

Get over yourself please.



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 08:16 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: BlackJackal

I asked for specifics. Which shell companies were used? How was the money transferred? Under what guise?

You got nothing... as usual. As to why I believe Trump over you, it's called past observations.



The Shell Corporations were "Resolution Consultants LLC" and "Essential Consultants LLC"

Pages 11 through 14 the Offenses documents answers many of your questions.

(It starts on page 11 - 4. Cohen’s Illegal Campaign Contributions)

Excerpts and link below:



Between August 2016 and September 2016, Cohen agreed with Chairman-1 to assign the
rights to the non-disclosure portion of Corporation-1’s agreement with Woman-1 to Cohen for
$125,000. Cohen then incorporated a shell entity called “Resolution Consultants LLC” to be used
in the transaction.




On October 26, 2016, Cohen emailed an incorporating service to obtain the corporate
formation documents for another shell corporation, Essential Consultants, LLC, which he had
incorporated a few days prior.
That afternoon, he directed that $131,000 from his HELOC – the
same HELOC he had obtained by means of false statements, see p. 8-10, supra – be deposited into
an account he had just opened in the name of Essential Consultants LLC.


www.courthousenews.com...

I hope that helps with some of your questions.




edit on 11-12-2018 by Extorris because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 09:25 PM
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I must applaud you on the research you have done or whoever provided it to you. But none of it matters, can't indict a sitting president and after he finishes his 2nd term, the whole place will be cleaned up and no one will care about these piddly allegations compared to you know, Sedition and the one that starts with T.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole Southern District of New York office wasn't in prison by then. The FBI and DOJ have zero credibility, I mean lying to the FISA court to spy on a Presidential Campaign and then using the lies to try and bring down a duly elected President, we got some real POS in DC.

Personally, I think we have gone too long without someone being charged, tried and executed for Treason. I mean Treason, that gets everyones attention. Even a Sedition charge makes these mass shooters look like school kids, no death penalty but still a crime against every single American citizen, thats what we need to get everyone paying attention again.

Now, for a side show we got a Federal Judge opening up the Clinton email investigation (maybe it will actually be investigated this time) and the Clinton Foundation in front of a Grand Jury, whistle-blowers and the likes and your'e excited about campaign finance violations, What, you don't have the stomach for real crimes? Lots of corruption being exposed, I like the action. We need some of them hanging offenses.

It's way better than wasting life away watching Dancing with the Stars.

Remember, It's all just fun and games until someone gets charged with Treason.



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 11:13 PM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

You know you type a lot o f crap and present it as truth without any links to back yourself up. So before you and I move forward do me the favor of providing me the sources for these claims.

I provided you with multiple links showing how the dossier is being confirmed. You claim it is totally fake, a lie. That’s a pretty big claim, surely you having something to back you up and to disprove my sources. That’s how an intellectual debate works, it is the only way to come to the truth. You can’t just through out your beliefs, that is a fools errand.

While you’re at it, please provide some evidence to back up your claim that Hillary somehow influenced the dossier creation. Proof that when the Republicans were paying for it, it contained nothing of use. Oh and proof that ALL those people were fired for improper handling of the dossier.

Also for the third time since you can’t seem to grok it, this is not the Mueller investigation. It is “pretty damn far” from collusion because it is not an investigation into Russian ties.

Onto the subject of these crimes being in the past. These crimes occurred 2 years ago, it’s not like we are talking about the 80s. These crimes fall well within the statute of limitations. Are you arguing against him being investigated or prosecuted for any crimes he may have committed? Surely not.

Also, I have never said that Trump should be impeached for what we the public currently know. However, to stick your head in the sand and go right along with pundits like Hannity and Rush when they say Trump is totally innocent that is crazy. There is far too much smoke for anyone to argue that there is no need for an investigation.



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 11:45 PM
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originally posted by: jjohn143
I must applaud you on the research you have done or whoever provided it to you. But none of it matters, can't indict a sitting president and after he finishes his 2nd term, the whole place will be cleaned up and no one will care about these piddly allegations compared to you know, Sedition and the one that starts with T.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole Southern District of New York office wasn't in prison by then. The FBI and DOJ have zero credibility, I mean lying to the FISA court to spy on a Presidential Campaign and then using the lies to try and bring down a duly elected President, we got some real POS in DC.

Personally, I think we have gone too long without someone being charged, tried and executed for Treason. I mean Treason, that gets everyones attention. Even a Sedition charge makes these mass shooters look like school kids, no death penalty but still a crime against every single American citizen, thats what we need to get everyone paying attention again.

Now, for a side show we got a Federal Judge opening up the Clinton email investigation (maybe it will actually be investigated this time) and the Clinton Foundation in front of a Grand Jury, whistle-blowers and the likes and your'e excited about campaign finance violations, What, you don't have the stomach for real crimes? Lots of corruption being exposed, I like the action. We need some of them hanging offenses.

It's way better than wasting life away watching Dancing with the Stars.

Remember, It's all just fun and games until someone gets charged with Treason.



So you are arguing that the entire staff of the Southern District of New York will be in jail for Treason? Really?? How in the hell are they committing anything close to Treason? They are doing their jobs, you know, to investigate crimes. Trump is not above the law, he can be prosecuted just like everyone else in this country.

Sure, there is the DOJ rule that prohibits the indictment of a sitting president. However, just like Mitch McConnell showed us rules can and often are changed.

Also, that FISA crap originated from Alex Jones (you know, gay frog guy) and it has been proven wrong. LINK

If you are so hyped up for someone to be charged with Treason, your best bet will be Trump. If Mueller is able to prove Trump worked with the Russians to influence the election, you know what that would be called? That’s right Treason.

I always find it amusing that you guys on the right are super quick to believe anything negative that comes out against Hillary or someone else on the left. But, if you are presented with a story against Trump you will deny it even if it has more evidence than any Hillary email story. That’s called confirmation bias. Look it up if you want a. Insight into how to become a better person or not, I really don’t care.

I swear the quality of the users on this site has really fallen to all time lows. If you were to have posted anything like that crap on this board in 2003-2006 you would have been laughed out of town. However, now instead of being a site for intellectual debate this place has become an echo chamber for the willful ignorant.



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 11:53 PM
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a reply to: BlackJackal




However, now instead of being a site for intellectual debate this place has become an echo chamber for the willful ignorant.


Then stop perpetuating it.

The person you responded to said:



Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole Southern District of New York office wasn't in prison by then.


To which you reply:



So you are arguing that the entire staff of the Southern District of New York will be in jail for Treason? Really??


Intellectual dishonesty with a dash of hyperbole. This isn't an isolated incident either.

Have a look in the mirror when you speak of willful ignorance and the quality of users here on ATS.



posted on Dec, 12 2018 @ 12:04 AM
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originally posted by: BlackJackal

That’s how an intellectual debate works, it is the only way to come to the truth. You can’t just through out your beliefs, that is a fools errand.


I'm not debating you...lol I can do what you do and look for what fits your narrative and then pass it off as fact, proof because you linked it... As I said we will see, how does that fit in your narrative?


Oh and proof that ALL those people were fired for improper handling of the dossier.


I didn't say that...



Also, I have never said that Trump should be impeached for what we the public currently know. However, to stick your head in the sand and go right along with pundits like Hannity and Rush when they say Trump is totally innocent that is crazy. There is far too much smoke for anyone to argue that there is no need for an investigation.


You have already determined Trump is guilty...what is there to debate, but when I say we will see somehow that triggers you...



posted on Dec, 12 2018 @ 04:17 AM
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a reply to: Extorris

Well, yes, it helps a bit. Thank you. I am still a bit confused, however.

This part makes no sense:

During the campaign, Cohen played a central role in two similar schemes to purchase the
rights to stories – each from women who claimed to have had an affair with Individual - 1 – so as to suppress the stories and thereby prevent them from influencing the election. With respect to both payments, Cohen acted with the intent to influence the 2016 presidential election.
www.courthousenews.com...

My confusion stems from the statement that, by acting to prevent an influence to the election, Cohen influenced the election? What is that, a statement that whoever wins influenced the election by default?

That's one thing about this whole debacle, from the Mueller investigation to the Steele Dossier to Michael Cohen, that bothers me... is not every advertisement, every rally, every press conference, every debate, heck, every statement made by either candidate or their supporters by definition an attempt to influence the election? That's the whole point of running for office: you want to influence the election or you wouldn't be running for office! By definition, it is thus illegal to win an election. How is that even close to reasonable?

So far as Cohen's money laundering... I'm not sure what he did rises to that level, but reading over the charges (including his fraudulent banking practices) it certainly paints a picture of someone who had no issues with shuffling money around so he could take his cut. I'm curious, though... a loan is a private agreement between a bank and a customer. As such, while there may be regulations as to how the bank operates, why has lying on a bank loan application risen to the level of a Federal crime investigated by the FBI? Now, I will admit freely that I am out of date on this; I haven't approached a bank about a loan in something like 20 years. I don't think I want to now, since leaving something off the loan app will apparently get a visit from the FBI!

In my day, that was a civil matter. The bank would have a clause in the loan agreement wherein they could call in the loan for immediate payment in full if they discovered severe discrepancies in the loan application. One would get called to court on a civil case, and if one lost, one would have a judgement entered against them that could be collected. I'm not sure I like this latest expansion of banking practices into criminal territory.

Notwithstanding that, the law I knew said that such false transactions rose to the criminal level only if they supported criminal activity... that was the definition of money laundering. The document clearly states that had Cohen not executed the NDAs in question, both women would have been guilty of influencing the election themselves. I guess they should be thankful to Cohen, since by influencing the election, he prevented them from influencing the election. Stormy even had a lawyer more crooked than Cohen!

My brain hurts. Thank you for the info, but this is something the lawyers need to figure out. In any case, even if Cohen is guilty of everything claimed and spends the next five centuries in jail, I saw nothing about the Trump campaign or Trump himself, other than they did follow some legal advise from a lawyer who turned out to be shady. I do hope Stormy Daniels isn't prosecuted for that... she's got enough trouble, now owing Trump $290K. I guess in today's world, false information on a bank loan application and listening to a lawyer are pretty serious offenses now, but extortion is legal.

Who'da thunk it?

TheRedneck




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