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The Holy Grail... a Research Project

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posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 07:35 PM
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The Holy Grail

I’ve been reading about this for a few days now. Actually, I was researching another subject and a simple phrase caused me to switch gears. Yep, it was a sort of “what if” moment. But it led me down a road that could be all fanciful musings and fictional writings…or there could be some truths buried deep within what was written. Either way, as always, it is up to you to decide what you choose to believe or not. I’m just presenting some food for thought and a little teaser to see if anyone is interested in researching it a bit more with me...The sentence that led me on this journey?


The late Carlos Castañeda wrote that the sorcerer Don Juan Matus believed in the existence of an area best described as a “crevasse between realities” in which the material world imperceptibly gives way to the spirit world and other dimensions. However, only someone well versed in the hidden lore may recognize these gateways for what they are and make use of them. In his book Guía a la España Mágica (A Guide to Magical Spain) Spanish author Juan G. Atienza has pointed out that the Grail Epics are in fact a quest for this particular place where the mortal world meets the undying lands or heaven


The whole paragraph was an interesting thought. But that final sentence was what sent me in search of the holy grail.

Some History
I’m not going to dive into the history of the holy grail too much. At least not the accepted history of it. But to tell you where it originates from, the very first mention of it:

The first-known reference to the Grail was made by French poet Chrétien de Troyes in Perceval, le Conte du Graal (which translates as ‘Percival, the Story of the Grail’), an unfinished poem written sometime between 1181 and 1190. Chrétien credits a source book, but the original work remains a mystery. ...


But that isn’t really the first time it was mentioned. That is what is accepted as the first, but the grail seems to go a lot farther back than the 1100’s. While researching a bit more, I found that there are references to the grail as far back ancient Egypt:

Two symbols commonly used in the Egyptian murals are a cup that is held aloft to the sun god Amon Ra to be blessed, and a cone of bread, said to be given to the Pharaoh as a magical gift of Immortality. The hieroglyph of this particular cone of bread can be found painted in the great pyramid. This bread is described in the Egyptian book of the dead, using the question “what is it?” several times throughout. Both symbols, which are often used together, suggested to the Egyptians a meaning identical to that which we attach to the grail. In fact, along the banks of the Nile, the god Scrapis is often shown with a vessel filled with either sacred bread, or the “red waters of life”, the name of this vessel is gardal. This gardal was also said to contain the celestial power of the god Ptah, the creator of all things. For the initiates of the goddess Isis, the gardal was a hieroglyph of divine power. The gardal of Egyptians is therefore the key to the holy grail. It has been argued that both “grail” and “Gardal” are the same word. Over the centuries the word “gardal” became “gradal” and ultimately “grail”. ...


Within that quote you find a suggested etymology for the word grail.

Egypt is not the last to mention a grail. The grail has taken on different names throughout the ages, but in essence, each name/item offers up the very same promise that is suggested in the writings of Chrétien de Troyes: immortality, knowledge and abundance. A chalice or bowl is mentioned in almost every religion and era in history. No matter where you travel, there is some “thing” that is said to have these qualities imbued in it.

And that is what got me thinking a bit more. It is not a “thing” we should be looking for. It is not one item that only one person can possess. It has to be something that is obtainable by all. I don’t know what it is, but I do know what it isn’t.

It is not the blood of Christ. The legend of a grail goes back much, much farther than that. Also, Christ, being a person who sacrificed himself for the whole of humanity, would not selfishly give the opportunity of a higher existence to only those who carried his blood line. That just isn’t what he represents. He also wouldn’t leave only one chalice for men to fight over. He knew what humanity was like. He would not promote such behavior. Again, not very Christ like. So, it can’t be a chalice or blood.

It’s not the waters of this world as has been suggested in this excerpt:

The blood and vessels of Jesus Christ could be a metaphor for the “blood and blood vessels of Earth” created by God whereby the Earths blood and blood vessels are equal to the Earths sacred primary water and water lines deep beneath the Earth’s surface. The crossings of these sacred water lines were most probably indicated by means of prehistoric stone circles which were in use from the late Neolithic to the early bronze age. This mineral-rich sacred healing water, available through water and springs flowing from a deep aquifer to the earths surface, was of great importance to early man for a number of reasons. It’s purity and supposed healing effect of this primary water was crucial in everyday life and the exact locations of these holy springs were therefore sometimes very well hidden and protected against collapse and destruction by means of a kind of reinforced structure around the well.


Although this is an interesting theory, it still is not something that every human would have access to. I don’t believe the grail is something external then. Not in the way that we normally think about things being separate or outside of ourselves. It has to be something that we, all of humanity, can obtain. I don’t believe that it is/would be as easy as drinking specific water. Not in the sense that the quote above states it to be. Otherwise most everyone would’ve already found and obtained immortality and higher knowledge. No one in today’s day and age can keep a secret cuz…facebook. There’d be a selfie somewhere.

Continued...
edit on 9-12-2018 by blend57 because: Always an edit : /




posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 07:35 PM
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So this is a teaser and a call out to others who have time to help me research a bit. There are a few more directions that this could go in (a lot more honestly). And, although I am very interested in learning/pursuing this subject, it is quite a big one to tackle alone and I haven’t got enough time to do it properly.

What is the holy grail? Is there evidence of some deeper meaning in histories past? How far back can the “essence” of the grail be traced? Is there hidden knowledge within some sacred texts?

So far, I have found some evidence of it in the Atlantean stories. But there has to be more…

And, what is the real name for it? What is this elusive grail that many a man has gone searching for but never found?

Anyone want to help me out with this one? Or, you can add your thoughts to this thread. Any info or leads would be appreciated.

As always, thanks for taking the time to read my post!
blend



posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 08:02 PM
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a reply to: blend57

Let me add Cup of Jamshid...


The Cup of Jamshid (Persian: جام جم‎, jām-e Jam) is a cup of divination, which in Persian mythology was long possessed by the rulers of ancient Greater Iran. Its name is associated with Jamshid (Jam in New Persian), a mythological figure of Greater Iranian culture and tradition. The cup has also been called Jam-e Jahan nama, Jam-e Jahan Ara, Jam-e Giti nama, and Jam-e Kei-khosrow. The latter refers to Kaei Husravah in the Avesta, and Sushravas in the Vedas.

The cup has been the subject of many Persian poems and stories. Many authors ascribed the success of the Persian Empire to the possession of this artefact. It appears extensively in Persian literature.

The cup ("Jām") was said to be filled with an elixir of immortality and was used in scrying. As mentioned by Ali-Akbar Dehkhoda, it was believed that all seven heavens of the universe could be observed by looking into it (از هفت فلک در او مشاهده و معاینه کردی). It was believed to have been discovered in Persepolis in ancient times. The whole world was said to be reflected in it, and divinations within the cup were said to reveal deep truths. Sometimes, especially in popular depictions such as The Heroic Legend of Arslan, the cup has been visualized as a crystal ball. Helen Zimmern's English translation of the Shahnameh uses the term "crystal globe".


The quote is a wiki one (blah) but I can't link the book I have on it.

The last few 100 years or so it has been turned into either a Wiccan parody (crystal ball) or oddly enough, a new fantasy series.

The Hopi (who believe they had to migrate from Persia a long time ago) incorporate the cup symbol in certain kachinas.

However, to them the cup does not represent a physical location on earth, but rather where your brain resides... the skull.

To them the cup is a representation of both immortality and knowledge because inside your self, your subconscious, lie the keys for all these things.

The crystal globe that they talk about is the brain, the energy in it and its connection with all other energies.

To throw another thought in there, ancient Egyptian symbols pair very well with Hopi symbols as well.

Also in Hopi legends is a land that went under the sea.

Just giving you my slant...

And let's not even get into the Fountain of Youth yet...


edit on 9-12-2018 by Lumenari because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 08:16 PM
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a reply to: Lumenari

That is interesting and thank you for adding some more to the thread. Exactly what I was looking for and I appreciate it.

The story of the Alanteans stated that they were able to manipulate the Earth and elements. They had found balance between nature and science (just off the top of my head from reading). I also remember reading about other American Indians having similar beliefs as the Hopi one. Similar, not exact.


So, it is something that we carry within ourselves, but we have to activate it? Is that what their alluding to?

Thanks!
blend

Edit to add: I've looked at the cauldron/horn of plenty, which also represent immortality and abundance according to what I've read on it. I haven't researched any of these in detail, just got an overall "feel" for the subject. I just haven't had time...

I wanted to check out demonology and did some quick searches into alchemy.. there is also knights Templar that I have some links to as well. One is a poem which, to me, shows that it is not a "thing" they are searching for. The poem is written about the holy grail by French poet Chrétien de Troyes. It is thought to be a work of fiction. Chretien supposedly stated that his story came from a valid source..but I have yet to back research that.

So, that is where I am at right now. The poem can be found here ...

Some of the phrases in it hint that it is something more...yes, it could be aliens and what not, but, if we are thinking solely about this referencing the holy grail..well, it is an interesting read.

edit on 9-12-2018 by blend57 because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-12-2018 by blend57 because: Fixed for clarification



posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 08:34 PM
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originally posted by: blend57
a reply to: Lumenari

That is interesting and thank you for adding some more to the thread. Exactly what I was looking for and I appreciate it.

The story of the Alanteans stated that they were able to manipulate the Earth and elements. They had found balance between nature and science (just off the top of my head from reading). I also remember reading about other American Indians having similar beliefs as the Hopi one. Similar, not exact.


So, it is something that we carry within ourselves, but we have to activate it? Is that what their alluding to?

Thanks!
blend



A quick aside, the Mayans were a sister tribe of the Hopi.

They were charged with going as far south as possible in the Hopi's new land and reporting back.

They never did, but brought a lot of the original culture with them.

Including those pesky white people with facial hair who would return to take them home...

As to the question, we should for the thread link the holy grail to the philosopher's stone...


The philosopher's stone, or stone of the philosophers (Latin: lapis philosophorum) is a legendary alchemical substance capable of turning base metals such as mercury into gold (chrysopoeia, from the Greek χρυσός khrusos, "gold", and ποιεῖν poiēin, "to make") or silver. It is also called the elixir of life, useful for rejuvenation and for achieving immortality; for many centuries, it was the most sought goal in alchemy. The philosopher's stone was the central symbol of the mystical terminology of alchemy, symbolizing perfection at its finest, enlightenment, and heavenly bliss. Efforts to discover the philosopher's stone were known as the Magnum Opus ("Great Work").


Not to expand the topic, but I personally think that the holy Grail and the Philosopher's stone were two different approaches to manifest the same thing.

I think that a lot of people over the years were looking for a physical manifestation of something that is, for lack of a better world, spiritual, or intellectual.

Look at the religions of most older cultures... they even have a tiered system of consciousness or life.

Making lead (common) into gold (rare) is just a representation of the deeper mystery... who we are, where we go.

As is the Grail.

Sorry to muddy up your thread with personal opinions, however this topic has been a fascination of mine for some time.


edit on 9-12-2018 by Lumenari because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 08:46 PM
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a reply to: Lumenari

Nope, that is where my head was going as well. With all the "items" that the grail could be, it makes more sense that it isn't any of them.

I've also read that it is the holy waters surrounding the pineal gland:


The Holy Grail is thought to be a reference to the “Holy Waters” surrounding the pineal gland – and the chalice which allows us to hold the elixir of immortal life. It has also been referred to as the “lost key” which will help to free humankind from their collective egoic prison....
would need another source for this one..lol

But, I don't want to leave any thoughts off the table that relate to the holy grail. I'm trying to gather it all and work my way through the info one at a a time after I have it collected.

Thanks for helping me out!

edit on 9-12-2018 by blend57 because: Always an edit : /



posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 09:13 PM
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Found this in the satanic symbols:




14. Lucifer has several sigils. His symbol at left represents the True GRAIL. This is the cup that holds the elixer of life. The Grail is part of the Magnum Opus, the potential of which we have within ourselves. It is not a material object, it is a concept. The "blood of the chakras" is the energy they leak when stimulated. The Grail is depicted as "Royal Blood." This is the 'blood' of the chakras. ...


Sorry guys, just throwing it all out there. Don't mean to offend anyone.

Another link to magnum opus:


Satan told me he will be giving me the formula to the Magnum Opus. The Magnum Opus is the highest working in Satanism, and the end result of all legitimate occult disciplines, the allegories and the legends of the Gods.
The Magnum Opus is physical and spiritual perfection and immortality. ...


Need to confirm this is factual...

Off to bed for this evening and will be gone most of the day tomorrow. If anyone has something to add or is interested in researching this with me..just drop it in here and I'll check when I get home.

Thanks!
blend
edit on 9-12-2018 by blend57 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 01:00 AM
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People get wounded by the grail:

The Fisher King

Perceval, or The Story of the Grail, by Chrétien de Troyes

"The Story of the Grail, by Chrétien de Troyes, is one of the greatest literary works of all time. "


edit on 10-12-2018 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 05:38 AM
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I have a few things on The Knights Templar I want to insert here. It is just a quick note before I have to start my day. I'll link the rest when I get back this evening.

The Grail Nights Motto:


the motto of the Grail Knights: “Dureh Mitleid w'usen.” A call
from the Immortal Self of Man resounding in the darkness of confusion and
doubt within the human soul: Through Compassion to Self-Knowledge. ...


That is from the book The pear of Destiny. The full text is available at the link. It talks about Adolf Hitlers quest for the grail as well...looks to be an interesting read.


I also have a correction. I linked a poem and attributed it to the wrong person. The Holy Grail Poem is by Alfred Lord Tennyson and was written after the original The Story of The Grail.

Thanks!

blend


edit on 10-12-2018 by blend57 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 08:00 PM
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This next bit I found while researching the Knights Templar. I'm not sure how it fits into the whole grail thing yet, except for....well, this is where found it at:


Early on, while doing research for my novel The Templars Two Kings and a Pope, I was mystified by the recurrent mention of the Holy Grail in documents referring to the Knights Templar. It didn't make sense; by then I had defined that the core of the Templars, those who gave direction to the Order were without doubt Gnostic mystics who gave little importance to relics or anything in the material world, which they considered an illusion, something to be dismissed.

...if a chalice stood for something else, what would it be? It definitely was not the cup that Jesus used in the last supper. This would mean nothing to those mystics, an actual cup?

When I dug deeper, I found that starting even earlier, perhaps back to the 5th century, the Heart, that is the spiritual heart as opposed to the human organ, was symbolized by a drinking vessel.


He goes on to say that he believes that the grail is actually a document and explains he believes it to be the writings of Jesus Christ:


The legends point to the existence of a Holy Grail. Historical evidence defines it as a Gnostic Gospel written by Jesus. But where has it been all these centuries?

Among the Gnostic Gospels there is one called the Gospel of the Savior, but no one knows who the author is as yet. Whatever the case might be about that document, wouldn’t a gospel written by Jesus been singled out and heralded through the centuries? Well, not if it started out as a secret document by the author himself, giving very specific instructions that it cannot be disseminated. Jesus meant his secret teachings for those who were ready, and these were few and far between. To the masses he spoke in parables, to the minds with limited understanding that could not conceive of God residing inside them. He knew that should his teachings be made public, they would be grossly misinterpreted, and indeed they were. ...


Ok, so I looked at the Gospel of The Savior and pulled a few excerpts from it that kind of fit the reasoning that the grail could be like (something similar to) the waters of the Earth or the waters surrounding the pineal gland:


Judas said, "Tell us, Lord, what was [...] before the heaven and the earth existed."
The Lord said, "There was darkness and water, and spirit upon water.

The Lord said, "When the Father established the cosmos, he [...] water from it, and his Word came forth from it, and it inhabited many [...]. It was higher than the path [...] surrounds the entire earth [...] the collected water [...] existing outside them. [...] the water, a great fire encircling them like a wall ...


Now, this gospel does mention that the heart is the key, as does the article linked above. So, there is that. Also, the water mentioned in the gospel does not sound like the same water we have here on Earth. Not in the beginning anyways. "There was darkness and water, and spirit upon the water."

The other part that is interesting is where he thinks the Knights Templar found the grail:


The first instance that the real Holy Grail surfaced was shortly after the founding of the Templar Order in 1119. The nine Gnostic knights who founded the order, almost immediately started digging around Solomon’s Temple where they were headquartered. In due course they stopped digging and made their way to Rome where they exacted huge concessions from the pontiff that guaranteed the viability of their new order. Historians have speculated as to what it was that they found that they could use to sway the pope. The Temple of Solomon had contained the legendary Ark of the Covenant, but the chances that it was still around after all those centuries would be unlikely, given that the Temple had been destroyed and rebuilt several times, and even then, its possession would not have given such a powerful bargaining position to the Templars. What would have done it, would be a Jesus Gospel that if made public, would have meant the end of the Church’s role as intermediary. But did they find it under the Temple? Not likely. Through the centuries the place had been just too much of a target, not a good hiding place for anything of value. It’s far more likely that the nine Gnostic Templars were after something buried near the Temple. What stood next to the Temple of Solomon in Jesus’ time was the Antonia Fortress, the Roman’s administrative center that had also housed a jail where Jesus had been held before being crucified. Several Roman jails had cells dug into the ground. It is then possible that Jesus’ cell could have survived.


Remember, the book he wrote is fiction, but the research he did was not. This article was written based off of that research..and so was his book.

Just wanted to put this here for reference...

Thanks!
blend



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 03:59 PM
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It's not a vessel, but the actual bloodline of Christ. (specifically an elder daughter and then two sons).

www.goldenageproject.org.uk...

She was exiled from Judea, and fled to Gaul (France). (this flight depicted in numerous works, by the way).

The "vessel" idea is really a depiction of "vas uterus" and isn't some goblet, but the very bloodline of Jesus.

There's even some writings that indicate he may have been into polygamy, and had several wives after his resurrection. (not an uncommon practice of the time).

I still love how a single word like "manger" can still persist to this day, when folks think the stories are of him born in a barn. Nope, they simply used a feed trough (brought in), for a cradle, because there wasn't one in the house, lol. Little things like this just crack me up.



posted on Dec, 16 2018 @ 07:32 PM
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Good Evening all,

I am just putting some quick references to the chalice here. All of them talk about white waters, red waters of life, and various other types of water/liquid. These are not, in my opinion, the waters that we have here on Earth.

I find it interesting that most refer to the container as holding the special properties, yet it is the water or liquid inside of it that seems to be what matters. Sometimes the water is thought to be special before it even gets poured into the cup. Yet, the chalice is what is thought to have the "magic". Not just in these incidences, but in other stories I've read as well. Maybe I am misreading, but, that is what it seems like to me.

The Chalice of buddha:


According to Persian traditions, when Jemshid began to excavate the foundation for the city of Istaker, a miraculous chalice, Jami-Jemshid, was found. The chalice was made of turquoise and was filled with the precious nectar of life.

In the distance, beyond the great lakes, beyond the highest mountains, is the sacred place where all truth flourushes. There one may find the supreme knowledge and the future salvation of man kind. And this place is called Belovodye, meaning the white waters ...



Egyptian grail:


Two symbols commonly used in the Egyptian murals are a cup that is held aloft to the sun god Amon Ra to be blessed, and a cone of bread, said to be given to the Pharaoh as a magical gift of Immortality. The hieroglyph of this particular cone of bread can be found painted in the great pyramid. This bread is described in the Egyptian book of the dead, using the question “what is it?” several times throughout. Both symbols, which are often used together, suggested to the Egyptians a meaning identical to that which we attach to the grail. In fact, along the banks of the Nile, the god Scrapis is often shown with a vessel filled with either sacred bread, or the “red waters of life”, the name of this vessel is gardal. This gardal was also said to contain the celestial power of the god Ptah, the creator of all things. For the initiates of the goddess Isis, the gardal was a hieroglyph of divine power. The gardal of Egyptians is therefore the key to the holy grail. It has been argued that both “grail” and “Gardal” are the same word. Over the centuries the word “gardal” became “gradal” and ultimately “grail”.

The roots Mir - Mar- or Mir appear frequently in any investigation of the grail, they also relate linquestically to space and water. In ancients myths space was referred to as the cosmicwater. ...



Solomans chalice:


Then he took the crystal goblet. He summoned to him a huge negro slave, bade him mount a wild horse and gallop it about the plain till it streamed with sweat. Then, with ease, the monarch filled the chalice with water that came neither from earth nor heaven...


India Amritam:


They suggested that Amrit could only be gained from the samudra manthan (or churning of the ocean) for the ocean in its depths hid mysterious and secret objects. Vishnu agreed to take the form of a turtle on whose shell a huge mountain was placed. This mountain was used as a churning pole.

With the help of a Vasuki (mighty and long serpent, king of Nagloka) the churning process began at the surface. From one side the gods pulled the serpent, which had coiled itself around the mountain, and the demons pulled it from the other side. As the churning process required immense strength, hence the demons were persuaded to do the job—they agreed in return for a portion of Amrit. Finally with their combined efforts (of the gods and demons), Amrit emerged from the ocean depths. All the gods were offered the drink but the gods managed to trick the demons who did not get the holy drink



Amritam is an antidote to death. He who drinks it becomes immortal. As a drink it is no more available because whatever drink that was churned out of the oceans by the gods and demons at the beginning of creation was consumed to the last drop. If any of it is still left, it will remain hidden until the end of creation because if the demons gain hold of it there will be chaos. However, even though amritam is not available in a drink form, one can still become immortal by attaining liberation or mukti...


Hindu vase of abundance


Kalasha - The kalasha is considered a symbol of abundance and "source of life" in the Vedas. It is referred to as "overflowing full vase" in the Vedas. The Kalasha is believed to contain amrita, the elixir of life, and thus is viewed as a symbol of abundance, wisdom, and immortality. The Kalasha is often seen in Hindu iconography as an attribute, in the hands of Hindu deities like the creator god Brahma, the destroyer god Shiva as a teacher, and the goddess of prosperity Lakshmi...


I still have more to add when I get some more time. Thanks for the interest and the support!

blend
edit on 16-12-2018 by blend57 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2018 @ 10:28 AM
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Then he took the crystal goblet. He summoned to him a huge negro slave, bade him mount a wild horse and gallop it about the plain till it streamed with sweat. Then, with ease, the monarch filled the chalice with water that came neither from earth nor heaven...


So....horse sweat?







 
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