Vegan and anger

a reply to: JAGStorm
Bull#.
Vegans do not hurt animals like meat eaters. I eat animals now but I know I'm just paying someone else to kill them for me.
Meat eaters DO get butt hurt when someone simply says they are vegan, I know, I experienced it for ten years.

You'll also notice the "Carnees" gather around veggie threads just to wave their briskets around.

I think it goes both ways sometimes though. Veggies vs Carnees..
But it's mostly carnivore guilt..with very defensive retorts.

BTW, I'm not vegan or vegetarian. still an omnivore with fish/chicken in the diet. No mammals.
Just working my way down the food chain.

The only places I have ever seen where Vegans / Vegiatarians and Meat Eaters argue like you're describing is online. Here on ATS, Facebook and YouTube.

Never seen it in real life, and in fact, I've seen exactly the opposite.

We have a young lady in our DnD group who is a Vegan. When she told us she was a Vegan, no one jumped down her throat, nor did she lecture anyone. The only person that reacted more than with curiosity was me, and that's because I tend to be the guy that is the cook for the group and make our dinners when we game together. I was concerned that I wouldn't be able to provide a meal for her.

The rest of us bloody steak eating rednecks were perfectly polite and asked her questions about her diet, reasons for it, etc. Everyone was perfectly respectful on the subject.

She even decided to make tacos for all of us, and made two batches: Meat ones for us and a batch of Vegan ones for her, and for any who wanted to try.....which we all did, and it was actually quite good!

When ever she's going to game with us, if I'm making the meal, I always try to bring a veggie or fruit tray, along with either some homemade bread, or desert that she can eat or snack on.

Never has she lectured, nor acted disgusted when we're chowing down on ribs in front of her. In fact, her husband isn't a Vegan and she makes his meals all the time.

So I have to assume you've either just really had bad luck and run into people who are assholes about it......or you are presenting yourself as a Vegan in a way that you're looking down your nose at others (whether you realize it or not), and that makes others get defensive.

In the future, if you're just tired of telling people you're a Vegan, just tell them you suffer from Lyme disease instead and that eating meat makes you sick ever since you got that tick bite. That should shut them up pretty quick.

a reply to: spacedoubt
Carnivore guilt yes, totally agree. Someone only has to state they are vegan and the attack will start.
The decade I was vegan I totally felt the attack even though I wasn't a campaigning vegan. Meat eater guilt is a real thing.

a reply to: spacedoubt

BTW, I'm not vegan or vegetarian. still an omnivore with fish/chicken in the diet. No mammals. Just working my way down the food chain.

For a long time I was still kinda pissed at the fish - but I finally gave them up too

:-)

I agree with this and your other posts. Not everybody sees things the same way

___________________________

a reply to: Skorpiogurl

If you're eating out with friends (or anybody) and you're ordering meatless - it's a given that you will get the jokes and the venom

It bugs people. You're not conforming. You don't have to say one word - it won't matter - your actions will feel like judgement

Soldier on - it's all we can do

Maybe you have that problem

originally posted by: eriktheawful
The only places I have ever seen where Vegans / Vegiatarians and Meat Eaters argue like you're describing is online. Here on ATS, Facebook and YouTube.

Never seen it in real life, and in fact, I've seen exactly the opposite.

We have a young lady in our DnD group who is a Vegan. When she told us she was a Vegan, no one jumped down her throat, nor did she lecture anyone. The only person that reacted more than with curiosity was me, and that's because I tend to be the guy that is the cook for the group and make our dinners when we game together. I was concerned that I wouldn't be able to provide a meal for her.

The rest of us bloody steak eating rednecks were perfectly polite and asked her questions about her diet, reasons for it, etc. Everyone was perfectly respectful on the subject.

She even decided to make tacos for all of us, and made two batches: Meat ones for us and a batch of Vegan ones for her, and for any who wanted to try.....which we all did, and it was actually quite good!

When ever she's going to game with us, if I'm making the meal, I always try to bring a veggie or fruit tray, along with either some homemade bread, or desert that she can eat or snack on.

Never has she lectured, nor acted disgusted when we're chowing down on ribs in front of her. In fact, her husband isn't a Vegan and she makes his meals all the time.

So I have to assume you've either just really had bad luck and run into people who are assholes about it......or you are presenting yourself as a Vegan in a way that you're looking down your nose at others (whether you realize it or not), and that makes others get defensive.

In the future, if you're just tired of telling people you're a Vegan, just tell them you suffer from Lyme disease instead and that eating meat makes you sick ever since you got that tick bite. That should shut them up pretty quick.

This here is worthy of toms of respect because you didn’t just give it to the vegan in your group, you go out of your way to make game night as inclusive as possible. If more people had your (and her) approach, the world would go a lot smoother for everyone.

Plant defense system chemicals were created by plants over millions of years. They work in many ways. Some make an animal sick, others entice them to fight among themselves to control the population. These are also called anti-browser chemicals.

Still more, like catnip, make the cats forget where they got the catnip from, there are other chemistries like that too. Others give the animals lots of energy and they run far away from the plants they were eating. some of these chemistries entice certain animals to come in to keep the browsers away, the pollen attracts the bees, and most animals stay clear of bees for obvious reasons.

Opium is a plant defense system chemistry, so is caffein in coffee. THC is also a plant defense chemical. Remember most medicines are designed off of plant chemistry and lots of meds are designed off defense system chemistry. We learned how to use them.

Banana chemistry causes increased testosterone to be created which causes the animal to get more aggressive. There are other chemistries that do that too including beer. Some chemistries of berries and nuts increase estrogen production which also can cause aggressiveness if too much is consumed. Fuel for the male and female hormones requires lipids too.

Where do people think the ideas of Pharma companies to create medicines comes from, they studied all sorts of things then isolated chemistries and altered them a tad and patent them.

In german krank means sick, usually when a person is kranky they are sick, the balance of their body is off.

They are telling people to eat five servings of fruits and veggies a day now, that is going to actually create more crabby people than anything. They are trying to cause problems in our society and make people need a doctor more. Some people can eat more veggies than others. I like veggies a lot but have health issues if I consume even a couple of servings a day. Kind of sucks.

The main neuromodulator in our bodies is taurine, it is a conditional amino acid which requires sulfite oxidase to use. It has a calming property to it and is the main antioxidant in our bodies. To make taurine, you need manganese...found in maple syrup, magnesium, which is not a problem for vegans, vitamin B6 is the starting base of it. Molybdenum co-enzymes are required for the sulfite oxidase and we need enough to do many different processes. It is necessary for processing aldehydes, which are metabolites of alcohol, also it is used to process nitrates and other nitrogen based compounds, then of course sulfite oxidase and some carbon thing that is to do with DNA synthesis. A vegetarian eating nuts and seeds can get themolybdenum from some of them, but the leaves do not have much. Now, broccoli is high but is also high in nitrates and sulfer compounds so they only take care of processing the plant itself. Potatoes and tomatoes have it more in the stalks, when the stalks deteriorate it goes into the ground to recycle. Most veggies these days are deficient on molybdenum, the miracle element of miracle grow.

Meats contain B vitamins, many of which can calm. B12 is somewhat of a neuromodulator too. So is choline. Choline is not in plants, betaine is, they are different chemicals, our bodies can make one out of the other if needed, but a lot of people have extremely low ability to do so. I need to eat betaine and choline to feel good. Betaine is found in spinach, but so is oxylates. Betaine is heat stable, oxylates are not, cook the spinach well enough to lower the oxylates if you have kidney stone risk.

Oh I forgot to say, if a person is low on taurine, they can get gall stones and gall bladder problems. Taurine is not heat stable either, it breaks down at a hundred eighty five degrees, bonding to parts of the meat and many people cannot get it off with enzymes. It is not very bioavailable if you cook the meat well done or milk is pasteurized.

Whoa, did this get long, sorry for stretching it out so much, it could be worse, I could write twenty pages on and related to this subject.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: JAGStorm

Vegans do not hurt animals like meat eaters. I eat animals now but I know I'm just paying someone else to kill them for me.
Meat eaters DO get butt hurt when someone simply says they are vegan, I know, I experienced it for ten years.

But why? Why would it even come up in conversation? That's why the joke is prominent. You know a person is vegan because he will tell you. I don't walk up to someone and say, "Hi. My name is Mark. I'm a meat eater." That doesn't happen. But vegans are well known for bringing it up in conversation as soon as possible. TMI, but they do it anyway. And it's not just about personal preference. It's moralistic and judgmental. Look at your own post. "Vegans do not hurt animals like meat eaters." It's right there in your short post. People do get butt hurt. I agree. That's because vegans are such azzholes about it.

originally posted by: verschickter
a reply to: Skorpiogurl
How long can you survive without supplements?

All those exotic super foods and natural supplements, ever thought about how they get to you and how it harms the environment?

I´ll pick that local grown tender calf meat anyday over some fake poison ladden sausages, schnitzels and what not.

A little example of some vegan stupidy:
Lately I got an email from a vegan where you actually see cows being slaughtered alive. All the rage and I agree this is cruel. But guess what, it´s the "halal" way and all the muslim refugees she endorses to come here. Because they act so civil...

Sure, this is only one individual example.

Good example and I agree - I don't buy into all the hype that we see on social media. I am not an extremist by any stretch of the imagination. I don't do the replacements either... they are loaded with chemicals and highly processed! Gross!

originally posted by: watchitburn
Maybe you have that problem

lol, I think that was directed at my "short" comment.
I think the canines are average

However, believe it or not, I had an extra canine
When I lost my first tooth as a kid, a front tooth, a canine grew in!
X-rays showed there was another incisor ready to come in too.
They pulled the canine, and sure enough a new regular front tooth grew in.

originally posted by: stosh64
a reply to: Skorpiogurl
First you say,

I don't go around feeling or acting like I am better than anyone

Then you prove yourself wrong.

Furthermore, lately it's been really getting to me that I actually live in a world where I'm forced to argue with people about the fact that animals shouldn't be harmed

Sounds to me like you are not telling the true story.

No one is forcing you to argue, I get the feeling it is the other way around.

I have vegans as family members. They are the only ones who bring it up, constantly.

I dont care what anyone eats, screws or worships.

Just don't virtue signal your perceived superiority and we will get along just great.

Well it's like this...
I say nothing and cook my meal and/or place my order. And the looks... what are you eating? you don't eat meat? and then come the endless questions that almost always end up in someone getting defensive without being prompted too. I don't have perceived superiority and I don't have actual superiority. I don't give a crap what anyone eats or doesn't eat and no one should care what I eat in return. That's all. Really.

a reply to: DrumsRfun

If the preceding ramblings mean anything, it is that we should only eat meat if it benefits us now. The important question is how it impacts our bodies today.

Modern life is different; the options that lie on the dinner table are much more varied. Our forebears did not have access to tofu, for instance, and a human living in colder climes would struggle to find cashew nuts on her daily forage.

A large-scale meta-analysis carried out in 2016 reported "a significant protective effect of a vegetarian diet versus the incidence and/or mortality from ischemic heart disease (25 percent) and incidence from total cancer (8 percent). Vegan diet conferred a significant reduced risk (15 percent) of incidence from total cancer." Vegetarian diets are also tied to a lower risk of metabolic syndrome, diabetes, cancer (again), and lower blood pressure, and they may fend off childhood obesity. On this matter, at least, the jury is well and truly in.

www.medicalnewstoday.com...

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: Skorpiogurl

I was vegan for a decade and I know what you are talking about, just saying you are vegan inspires criticism like people who are not vegan are offended or something.
I never campaigned against meat eaters, but the meat eaters got butt hurt and gave me loads of snip.
I still eat very little animal products and cook beans/pulses, but I totally know what you mean, just a life choice and the meat eaters get offended even if you aren't campaigning.
The meat eaters are worse than vegans in my opinion, something in their psyche they have to attack vegans.

Exactly right? I mean look at some of the comments on my honest and simple question!

originally posted by: verschickter
a reply to: Skorpiogurl
How long can you survive without supplements?

All those exotic super foods and natural supplements, ever thought about how they get to you and how it harms the environment?

I´ll pick that local grown tender calf meat anyday over some fake poison ladden sausages, schnitzels and what not.

A little example of some vegan stupidy:
Lately I got an email from a vegan where you actually see cows being slaughtered alive. All the rage and I agree this is cruel. But guess what, it´s the "halal" way and all the muslim refugees she endorses to come here. Because they act so civil...

Sure, this is only one individual example.

Does ANYONE eat NATURAL today? Do you consider fast food natural?
Actually I do know people who go through the effort to not use supplements and they are healthy.

Nutrients vegans should pay special attention to include vitamin B-12, iron and omega-3 fatty acids. You may also need to make extra efforts to get enough vitamin D, zinc and calcium. Read on to find out how vegans can get these seven nutrients without supplements and to learn a few extra tips to ace the plant-based diet.

www.livestrong.com...

It’s not too difficult to construct a vegan diet which fills most other dietary requirements, but vitamin B12 simply doesn’t exist in appreciable quantities in non-animal-based foods. Vegans must either take dietary supplements (B12 tablets and the like) or eat processed foods fortified with B12 (many breakfast cereals and imitation meats have B12 added).

www.quora.com...

Bill Haw CEO of Kansas City's National Farms, which operates one of the largest cattle feedlot operations in the country read the interview Describe [the slaughterhouse] for me. People really don't know what it's like in there.

Well, the slaughterhouse is not a pretty thing. I mean, it's a necessary process. It's a highly efficient process. But it's not now, nor never will be, a very pretty thing. Animals come there to die, to be eviscerated, to be decapitated, to be de-hided -- and all of those are violent, bloody and difficult things to watch.
So your first and foremost impression of at least the initial stages of the packing house are a very violent, very dehumanizing sort of thing.

www.pbs.org...

originally posted by: JAGStorm

keep it to yourself, and eat what you want. let others do the same.

This is the EXACT problem with Vegans, they absolutely can't keep it to themselves!
I was enjoying an egg and a vegan told me it was like eating a chicken period!!!
I don't go up to Vegans and tell them the are eating all the animals food!

The subject usually comes up innocently. It is something like have you eaten blah blah or this steak house has the best steak...so on. You say sounds great but we are vegan (I am vegetarian but my Family are mostly vegan).
Then the person acts as though you just told them they are rotten and baby killers or something so yeah you try to defend yourself.

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: spacedoubt

My canines are my justification. It's called evolution.

Are you suggesting we stop here? Don't go any further? Eat the crap sent from the slaughterhouse all the way to china to be "processed" before it is sent back to the Us no telling what it is.

This is an interesting article.
Marc Bekoff, Ph.D., is professor emeritus of ecology and evolutionary biology at the University of Colorado, Boulder.
www.psychologytoday.com...

a reply to: SeaWorthy

Modern life is different; the options that lie on the dinner table are much more varied.

Whoever wrote that should thank their ancestors for eating meat or that study wouldn't exist.


My point still remains,without people eating meat,humans wouldn't exist or even have the choice of being a vegan right now.
The whole killing an animal thing is weak IMO and you know what they say....only the strong survive...and they did because they ate meat.

I am not crapping on vegans for making their choices,I am just pointing out the obvious that we humans are here to talk about it because MEAT helped our survival as a civilization.

Basically,without killing and eating animals,we wouldn't even be here having this discussion.

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: spacedoubt

My canines are my justification. It's called evolution.

5. "BUT WE'RE OMNIVORES / WE HAVE CANINE TEETH" Having body parts that are simply capable of doing something does not mean that we should do it. To use an analogy, imagine if a man sexually assaulted someone, and then to justify his actions, pointed at his penis.



Yes, humans can digest animal products, but why does that mean we should? Vegans are living proof that humans can live long, healthy lives without eating any animal products whatsoever, and they have the same biological makeup (teeth, etc.) of any non-vegan person, thus it is unnecessary to harm animals when there are alternatives. With regards to the teeth, it turns out that our teeth are in no way carnivorous/omnivorous anyway. Humans have flat, blunt teeth, with a jaw capable of moving side to side, just like any herbivore.

With regards specifically to our 2 pointy little teeth, these are commonplace in various species of herbivores, such as fruit bats, rhinos, hippos, gorillas, and musk deer (aka the sabre tooth deer), all of which have far larger, sharper canines than our 2 pathetic little apple-crunchers that are completely incapable of even tearing through a pillow, let alone someone's flesh and bone.

If humans even had a single omnivorous instinct, the animal rights movement wouldn't even exist because we'd be too busy drooling over slaughterhouse footage to even care. Rather, when we see slaughter footage, we are repulsed by it. A true omnivore or carnivore would salivate or get hungry. See Milton R MIlls MD's graph here from his paper, 'The Comparative Anatomy of Eating' and decide for yourself how closely humans resemble bears, pigs, foxes,

www.carnismdebunked.com...

a reply to: Krakatoa

You are stating that is is a FACT that animals SHOULDN''T' be harmed. That, my friend, is NOT a fact, that is your opinion. That is your problem with being a vegan.

Strange thing this, no one would disagree if you had said Dogs shouldn't be harmed is a fact.