looting

When talk turns to calamity and prepping / survival, a lot of folks talk about looting, and start stockpiling ammo. For the rest of your preparations, you calculate how many calories per day per family member, or how many gallons of water per day; but when the topic of looting comes up, there's no calculating or formulating. Just pile all your guns in a heap and buy some more.

The first difference is between looting following social unrest (like the shooting in Ferguson, MO in 2014, and the scavenging that took place after Katrina. People who are feel secure about their own immediate safety at home will be empowered to go out and loot. Folks who have just survived a major environmental catastrophe are focused on the basics, and are much more timid.

The guardian article I linked it worth a look, because it details how there was much less violence that was reported and embedded in folk memory. Practically all of the violence was precipitated by local government, targeting people who were salvaging and looking for basic necessities. In contrast, Ferguson and LA were riots that were used by looters.

Misleading reports of violence worsened Katrina Aftermath (Guardian)
Widespread looting after Ferguson Teen shot (ABC)





I think most preppers focus their efforts on planning for a catastrophe like Katrina--a society-threatening event, at least on a regional level. I think a couple of take-aways from Katrina are a). The main threat to survivor safety was venturing out onto the streets afterward. b). That threat came from law enforcement who perceived survivors as potential looters.

If you are an apartment dweller, and have limited space and resources, you can protect your family most by having a few days food and water put back, so you don't have to go out on the street and face a fearful government or militia. In New Orleans, the government troops would secure a checkpoint/choke point, and shoot at anyone who approached from the "disaster side."

Maybe it would be worth it to put on a construction vest and hard hat, maybe carry a sign when you go out on a supply run....

a reply to: Graysen

I see what you're saying, and sort of agree, but at the same time, if you hunker down and wait a few days, there is a much larger possibility that the supplies that you need could be non-existent once you feel it is safe to look.

That's just something to consider, I suppose, but you do bring up a decent point.

I completely agree. "Hunkering down" would only be possible once you have the necessities provided for.

One thing I've noticed is when a winter storm is approaching, people naturally drop by the grocery on the way home, to pick up supplies. which generally means beer, cigarettes, bread and steak. And there are often wrecks in the parking lot, with snow coming down. The stores never run out of diapers on the eave of a storm; they run out of beer.


How critical your need is depends partly on how your actions get framed:

Framing theory: Loot v. Salvage

In my opinion, the typical looter is targeting the wrong stores and stealing the wrong merchandise.

If I were to go looting, I would target a farm co-op or hardware store and probably a small pharmacy and steal only the most useful and necessary items. However, because am not a looter, I would likely pay cash or barter with the store owners for the goods or make do some other way.

a reply to: Graysen
I depend on medication for my balance so I will loot the national chain pharmacy within hours of societal collapse or I'll be screwed if I run out.
Food etc is actually my secondary concern because without my meds I can't walk.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

I hear you. I have people with me that are dependent on Meds for long term health. Dr doesn't want to give a prescription for more than 90 days at a stretch, even though the Meds have no potential for abuse, and the patient's condition is stable over years of therapy. It's like they just want to make sure you stay on a short leash.

Fortuitously, both Meds are not well known, and perhaps pharmacy looters would not grab them if they were "cleaning out the pharmacy in a hurry."

I believe that stealing is always wrong (I keep the 10 Commandments.). But once a corporation loses control of its storefront, and isn't able to SELL me the critical Meds, and doesn't look like they will regain control of them to be able to profit from us in the future, the are effectively "lost or abandoned property" and it's finders keepers / losers weepers at that point. That's more salvage than looting

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
In my opinion, the typical looter is targeting the wrong stores and stealing the wrong merchandise.

If I were to go looting, I would target a farm co-op or hardware store and probably a small pharmacy and steal only the most useful and necessary items. However, because am not a looter, I would likely pay cash or barter with the store owners for the goods or make do some other way.

Same here. But the difference between looters and people like you and me are that we think ahead, they think about liquor, chips, cigarettes, and Nikes.

a reply to: Graysen

I'm no thief either as a general rule, I wouldn't loot a mom and pop drug store, just the national chain pharmacy.
I know my medicine would not be taken by other looters because there is no 'high' from it so I'd steal whatever I needed if society collapsed...but it would only be borrowed time, once it ran out I'd be screwed.
I just hope that such a situation would be temporary.
EDIT
I can imagine laughing with other looters that all I am looking for is my meds and they'd leave me alone, just some other human trying to stay alive.

I find that in many big emergencies there are plenty of people who are not evil who want to and will help you if you don't come off like a crazy person.

Yeah people that think when things go bad they are going to the drugstore to get a few years of prescriptions are going to be very disappointed. They will be the second place raided after the grocery store. Well the cell phone store might be first people aren't too bright.

Hell yeah loot everything anytime

originally posted by: XAnarchistX
Hell yeah loot everything anytime

Why wait for an emergency?

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: Graysen
I depend on medication for my balance so I will loot the national chain pharmacy within hours of societal collapse or I'll be screwed if I run out.
Food etc is actually my secondary concern because without my meds I can't walk.

I'll see you at CVS!
Along with a few million others in the same situation.
Those on antidepressants will have a horrible time if they run out.
Those with life-threatening conditions will be dropping by the thousands.
I hate to say that but if you must have insulin for example having as much on hand as possible should be your primary goal. After that you can worry about food, water and whatever.

Maybe all of us on medication will just have to go back to using natural substances. I can think of a few right off hand that could work for depression and anxiety, and you can grow them yourself in your own post-apocalyptic hovel.

And there's always the possibility that if everything goes to hell in a handbasket, we might not need our medications so much anyway. Maybe 90 percent of it is caused by being in an environment over-saturated with electricity.

a reply to: Graysen

I won't accept excuses for the people who were looting after Katrina. No, they were NOT all people looking for necessities; I saw the news footage. many were stealing electronics, and other not needed stuff, not food, etc. Completely unacceptable. Anyone living in a place that can be hit with a hurricane should be prepared for at LEAST three days of no power, etc., if not a couple of weeks, and a lot of those people were not prepared at all. Help came within three days, and they called that "
racist". Whole thing was pathetic. Then they were confiscating guns from folks who were defending their homes. Beyond ridiculous.

In Japan, after a massive quake, flooding, and nuclear disaster, I didn't see a single video of people there looting. All were orderly, polite, helping one another.

I think most law enforcement agencies plan on "policing" groceries and pharmacies; or to put it bluntly, they plan on seizing the meds themselves, first.

A lot easier to control people if they they have to come back every 5 days for their meds.

I wonder about online suppliers, etc.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Yep I'm #ed in societal collapse lol

a reply to: Graysen

Good point, by seizing the drugs the police have the authority (I think?) and ability to control a certain amount of what goes on. Anyone's guess how hospitals will stay supplied.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy
Yip. Whilst everyone else is in Sainsbury's punching several colours of # out of each other over Nylons, bog roll and tinned goods i'll be at the Chemist grabbing as much and as many different types of drugs as I can get my hands on.

Not because i need those drugs but because I know other people do and I can barter. A rucksack full of insulin, opioids, and antibiotics will go farther than a rucksack full off tights, arse wipe and spaghetti hoops.

a reply to: Blue Shift

exactly...