UC Berkeley must allow conservatives to speak on campus

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Sure there is a right to peacefully protest.

That doesnt include using violence, pulling fire alarms, blocking people from entering the event, heckling during the event, etc, which is what we see.

I dislike much of the curriculum in feminist classes. Do I have the right to walk in to those classes every day, scream and shout my protest, thereby stopping all the people who paid to attend the class from hearing what they want?

I would say no, I should rightfully be told to leave and to stop disrupting.

But I am free to grumble all I want about these classes until it interfere with the rights of free speech occuring in the class.

a reply to: Grambler

That doesnt include using violence, pulling fire alarms, blocking people from entering the event, heckling during the event, etc, which is what we see.

Do you not understand what the word peacefully means?

Go pick a fight with someone else. I agreed with the OP

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Sure there is a right to peacefully protest.

That doesnt include using violence, pulling fire alarms, blocking people from entering the event, heckling during the event, etc, which is what we see.

I dislike much of the curriculum in feminist classes. Do I have the right to walk in to those classes every day, scream and shout my protest, thereby stopping all the people who paid to attend the class from hearing what they want?

I would say no, I should rightfully be told to leave and to stop disrupting.

But I am free to grumble all I want about these classes until it interfere with the rights of free speech occuring in the class.

You would immediately be called a ‘fascist’ by the very people who ‘claim’ to defend your right to ‘peaceful’ protest.

What you describe is EXACTLY what the fascist ‘peaceful protesters’ were doing, with 100% left-wing faculty support.

“Think how we think or we’ll silence you”, the very definition of fascism.

a reply to: Grambler

You ok with NAMBLA speakers, right?

a reply to: Breakthestreak

“Think how we think or we’ll silence you”, the very definition of fascism.

Ironic

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: Sublimecraft

It appears that leftists on campus are now going to hear words contrary to what their professors have insisted they believe.

Only if they attend. I assume that's not mandatory

amazingly, they had that option in the past as well, but were either not smart enough to exercise it, or would rather have something to whine about.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: Grambler

That doesnt include using violence, pulling fire alarms, blocking people from entering the event, heckling during the event, etc, which is what we see.

Do you not understand what the word peacefully means?

Go pick a fight with someone else. I agreed with the OP

Were you picking a fight with Fools when you said this?

I wonder if you could have said this - differently? :-)

You see - you are not that different in your approach from that crowd

If you're going to make an argument for free speech, then you have to allow for dissent and protest

Tough noogies and all that. You can't have it both ways

Neither was I picking a fight with you.

Commenting on what I see happening which is defnded by some as peaceful protest is not me saying you said that, or defended it.

It was not a fight with you, it was a comment on what is considered peaceful protest.

I am sorry you found that as me picking a fight with you.

a reply to: network dude

amazingly, they had that option in the past as well, but were either not smart enough to exercise it, or would rather have something to whine about.

Which gives you something to whine about

Apparently you don't actually believe in free expression. What you believe is that nobody should ever speak out against people they don't agree with, unless they do it in a way that appeals to you

I am against violence. The rest of it - is merely being impolite

How big a snowflake do you have to be to demand that everyone behaves in a manner that suits you?

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: Grambler

You ok with NAMBLA speakers, right?

I am absolutely ok with anyone speaking what they want, up until the purposeful are inciting violence. I have defended all sorts of heinous speakers on campuses, like black panthers, Irans president, white nationalists, al Franken, bill ayers, Animal liberation front terrorists, and many more.

But telling you would like a ruling allowing a conservative speaker like Ben shapiro to speak as to allowing nambla to speak.

a reply to: Grambler

Neither was I picking a fight with you.

You wanted to argue a point I had already agreed with. The rest of it was just you having a platform to express your special needs and wants

Move on

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: Grambler

You ok with NAMBLA speakers, right?

they have the right to free speech as does Westboro Baptists, the KKK, and any other nutters who don't break the law with their assembly.

Are you not OK with them speaking?

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: network dude

amazingly, they had that option in the past as well, but were either not smart enough to exercise it, or would rather have something to whine about.

Which gives you something to whine about

Apparently you don't actually believe in free expression. What you believe is that nobody should ever speak out against people they don't agree with, unless they do it in a way that appeals to you

I am against violence. The rest of it - is merely being impolite

How big a snowflake do you have to be to demand that everyone behaves in a manner that suits you?

So are you saying you are ok with pulling fire alrarms, heclling during events, etc? Because that is only being impolite?

a reply to: Grambler

Pulling a fire alarm is illegal

If you are unable to understand what I'm saying, and still feel the need to argue, then I'm guessing any point I might make is never going to reach you

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: network dude

amazingly, they had that option in the past as well, but were either not smart enough to exercise it, or would rather have something to whine about.

Which gives you something to whine about

Apparently you don't actually believe in free expression. What you believe is that nobody should ever speak out against people they don't agree with, unless they do it in a way that appeals to you

I am against violence. The rest of it - is merely being impolite

How big a snowflake do you have to be to demand that everyone behaves in a manner that suits you?

not sure I said any of that, but I must have meant it.

I am also against violence. I think freedom of speech if vital to our society and most importantly on a college campus. If kids can't learn that the world is full of people who might disagree with them and how to navigate through the world knowing that, they won't make it out here. The only manner I want people to behave in is live and let live. Don't let your freedom intrude on someone else's freedom. If that's a snowflake mentality, I suppose I'm guilty.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: Grambler

Neither was I picking a fight with you.

You wanted to argue a point I had already agreed with. The rest of it was just you having a platform to express your special needs and wants

Move on

Sorry but this irks me.

First, seeing as I have free speech, i will say what I want despite your suggestion I move on.

Second, you are not merely agreeing with the OP as you say, you are then alluding to the fact that aside from outright violence, things such as blocking people from seeing speakers, pulling fire alarms, heckling so attendees cant here; all of this is acceptable.

Or maybe you are not alluding to that.

Instead of having a discussion, you merely tell me to move on and I am trying to pick a fight.

a reply to: Grambler

I don't actually care that it irks you

Understand - don't understand. There is no try

Protest is protected - and legal. People could stand to pick their battles more carefully

At some point illegal actions might be the moral choice. Campus protests? I guess it depends

I'm saying - not yet

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: Grambler

Pulling a fire alarm is illegal

If you are unable to understand what I'm saying, and still feel the need to argue, then I'm guessing any point I might make is never going to reach you

No I dont understand what you are saying because yopu are being intentionally vague.

You said

Apparently you don't actually believe in free expression. What you believe is that nobody should ever speak out against people they don't agree with, unless they do it in a way that appeals to you

I am against violence. The rest of it - is merely being impolite

How big a snowflake do you have to be to demand that everyone behaves in a manner that suits you?

This implies that you are ok with some of the behavior that Berkely students were showing.

So far you are against violence and pulling fire alarms.

what about heckling and shouting during events? What about blocking access to those events?

Why do you "pick a fight" with that user if you are merely agreeing with the OP that the actions of the berkely students was unacceptable, but say calling out the other behavior is being against their free speech?

Its clear you are being intentionally vague.

Is it possible you responded to me saying I was picking a fight while you yourself picked a fight with other users because you are afraid I will question your stance on why these actions such as heckling to avoid event attendees to hear speakers is acceptable.

Its ok, I know my free speech may be scary to you and you beg me to move on, but I will decline.

a reply to: network dude

If kids can't learn that the world is full of people who might disagree with them and how to navigate through the world knowing that, they won't make it out here.

Does this apply to people like Milo and Coulter? In a perfect world they'd get their stage and about 45 audience members and they would slink away and whine about how misunderstood they are

The trouble is - they aren't misunderstood. Thus - the protests

See, these kids already know they disagree with them. They have something to say about what these people represent

I personally say let these speakers speak, but I'll be goddammed if I don't understand these kid's motivation

Let them protest. Peacefully

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

At some point we may need to have illegal actions to censor speakers we dont like, we just arent there yet?

Yep, sounds like you are agreeing with the OP.

Again, if its ok for leftwing protestors to shout down conservative speakers because its not illegal,

Then I assume you would be perfectly fine with right wing people going in to every feminists indoctrination class and shouting so no professor can teach.

Of course you wouldnt, you would say the students paid for that education and should not be kept from it by ideologically opposed hecklers.

So why is it ok for left wing protestors to bar people from being educated by right wing speakers?

a reply to: Grambler

No I dont understand what you are saying because yopu are being intentionally vague.

I couldn't be any more obvious. You just want to argue something for the sake of arguing

Or else you want me to agree with you about how well mannered the protestors should be. I don't agree with you

Are we clear?