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originally posted by: Rewey
originally posted by: Extorris
originally posted by: Carcharadon
If true I guess Mueller should be charged with perjury and roasted over the coals for it right?
It is factually untrue that Cohen's plea proves no back-channel connections between the Trump Campaign and Russia.
Maybe so, but it deserves some more critical analysis than is currently being applied by the MSM . I've paraphrased below a few excerpts from Wikipedia's 'timeline of the Trump-Russia collusion', which are all referenced and sourced on the Wiki page:
January 14: Cohen sends email to Russian general press email address pleading for help to make contact with a senior Russian official. January 16: Cohen follows up with another email, pleading for someone who speaks English to call him back to help.
May 10: Trump adviser Dearborn receives an email about arranging a "back-channel meeting between Trump and Putin".
Early June: Fusion GPS hires Christopher Steele
June 1: Papadopolous emails Clovis that "Russian MFA asking if Trump is interested in visiting Russia".
June 3: Goldstone emails Trump Jnr about Russian government having dirt on Hillary
June 9: Trump Tower meeting takes place
July 22~26: an undated report submitted claiming "a well developed conspiracy of cooperation" between Trump team and Putin
July 31: FBI's Crossfire Hurricane investigation into collusion between Trump and Russia begins
These points are all undisputed. My queries and thoughts are:
1. If the May 10 email was seeking a back channel of communication between Trump and Putin, it obviously didn't exist before then, which includes during the time of Cohen's emails.
2. FBI must only be basing investigation on evidence from before July 31, but obviously after email of May 10, as no 'back channel' existed before then. This is also after Papadopolous got drunk and blabbed to Downer on May 1.
3. If Russian government had dirt on Hillary on June 3, why didn't Russian government contact Trump directly, instead of going through Agalarov, then Goldstone, then Trump Jnr? Weren't they colluding?
4. If a back channel existed between Trump and Putin, why didn't Trump just call Putin on June 3 after hearing about Hillary dirt? Why did he wait a whole week for the meeting to be held with random others?
5. If Cohen confesses that communications about Trump Tower actually continued until 'at least June 2016', again why did the Russian government go through Agalarov, Goldstone and Trump Jnr regarding Hillary dirt on June 3? And why did Russia ask via Papadopolous, a nobody, if Trump wanted to visit Russia on June 1?
6. If Mueller has copies of the May 10 email seeking to open a back channel, how does this impact Cohen's emails which is being touted as evidence of collusion by the media?
7. If the very convenient report of 22~26 July, just days before the FBI commenced Crossfire Hurricane, found a "well developed conspiracy of cooperation between Trump and Russia", how well developed could it be if no back channel existed as per the May 10 email, or convoluted chain of emails regarding Hillary dirt on June 3-9?
8. Most importantly, why isn't the MSM applying even a modicum of scrutiny to this timeline, none of which is in dispute?
originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: Extorris
Or is it your view that any peaceful resolution involves sacrificing US sovereignty in free elections and allowing foreign interference and cyber-crimes?
Be honest, the entire purpose of this investigation is political damage to President Donald Trump.
originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Extorris
You're grasping at straws by trying to confuse investigations. The emails all would have been seized from Cohen's computer and extracted when the FBI raided his office,
originally posted by: Rewey
originally posted by: Extorris
originally posted by: Carcharadon
If true I guess Mueller should be charged with perjury and roasted over the coals for it right?
It is factually untrue that Cohen's plea proves no back-channel connections between the Trump Campaign and Russia.
Maybe so, but it deserves some more critical analysis than is currently being applied by the MSM . I've paraphrased below a few excerpts from Wikipedia's 'timeline of the Trump-Russia collusion', which are all referenced and sourced on the Wiki page:
January 14: Cohen sends email to Russian general press email address pleading for help to make contact with a senior Russian official. January 16: Cohen follows up with another email, pleading for someone who speaks English to call him back to help.
May 10: Trump adviser Dearborn receives an email about arranging a "back-channel meeting between Trump and Putin".
Early June: Fusion GPS hires Christopher Steele
June 1: Papadopolous emails Clovis that "Russian MFA asking if Trump is interested in visiting Russia".
June 3: Goldstone emails Trump Jnr about Russian government having dirt on Hillary
June 9: Trump Tower meeting takes place
July 22~26: an undated report submitted claiming "a well developed conspiracy of cooperation" between Trump team and Putin
July 31: FBI's Crossfire Hurricane investigation into collusion between Trump and Russia begins
These points are all undisputed. My queries and thoughts are:
1. If the May 10 email was seeking a back channel of communication between Trump and Putin, it obviously didn't exist before then, which includes during the time of Cohen's emails.
2. FBI must only be basing investigation on evidence from before July 31, but obviously after email of May 10, as no 'back channel' existed before then. This is also after Papadopolous got drunk and blabbed to Downer on May 1.
3. If Russian government had dirt on Hillary on June 3, why didn't Russian government contact Trump directly, instead of going through Agalarov, then Goldstone, then Trump Jnr? Weren't they colluding?
4. If a back channel existed between Trump and Putin, why didn't Trump just call Putin on June 3 after hearing about Hillary dirt? Why did he wait a whole week for the meeting to be held with random others?
5. If Cohen confesses that communications about Trump Tower actually continued until 'at least June 2016', again why did the Russian government go through Agalarov, Goldstone and Trump Jnr regarding Hillary dirt on June 3? And why did Russia ask via Papadopolous, a nobody, if Trump wanted to visit Russia on June 1?
6. If Mueller has copies of the May 10 email seeking to open a back channel, how does this impact Cohen's emails which is being touted as evidence of collusion by the media?
7. If the very convenient report of 22~26 July, just days before the FBI commenced Crossfire Hurricane, found a "well developed conspiracy of cooperation between Trump and Russia", how well developed could it be if no back channel existed as per the May 10 email, or convoluted chain of emails regarding Hillary dirt on June 3-9?
8. Most importantly, why isn't the MSM applying even a modicum of scrutiny to this timeline, none of which is in dispute?
That does not alter the objective purpose of the Special Counsel Investigation. I have read the that Robert Mueller's first and most important rule for his team is "No one leaks, no one speaks" until the investigation is done.
originally posted by: Extorris
originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Extorris
You're grasping at straws by trying to confuse investigations. The emails all would have been seized from Cohen's computer and extracted when the FBI raided his office,
The article you cited was discussing congressional investigators.
"Obtained" meant what Cohen submitted.
This is different than the evidence the FBI and Special Counsel has collected.
If you are aware of someplace the Special Counsel and FBI have publicly shared the evidence "seized from Cohen's computer and extracted when the FBI raided his office" please direct me to it.
originally posted by: Rewey
originally posted by: Extorris
originally posted by: Carcharadon
If true I guess Mueller should be charged with perjury and roasted over the coals for it right?
It is factually untrue that Cohen's plea proves no back-channel connections between the Trump Campaign and Russia.
Maybe so, but it deserves some more critical analysis than is currently being applied by the MSM . I've paraphrased below a few excerpts from Wikipedia's 'timeline of the Trump-Russia collusion', which are all referenced and sourced on the Wiki page:
January 14: Cohen sends email to Russian general press email address pleading for help to make contact with a senior Russian official. January 16: Cohen follows up with another email, pleading for someone who speaks English to call him back to help.
May 10: Trump adviser Dearborn receives an email about arranging a "back-channel meeting between Trump and Putin".
Early June: Fusion GPS hires Christopher Steele
June 1: Papadopolous emails Clovis that "Russian MFA asking if Trump is interested in visiting Russia".
June 3: Goldstone emails Trump Jnr about Russian government having dirt on Hillary
June 9: Trump Tower meeting takes place
July 22~26: an undated report submitted claiming "a well developed conspiracy of cooperation" between Trump team and Putin
July 31: FBI's Crossfire Hurricane investigation into collusion between Trump and Russia begins
These points are all undisputed. My queries and thoughts are:
originally posted by: Deetermined
originally posted by: Extorris
originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Extorris
You're grasping at straws by trying to confuse investigations. The emails all would have been seized from Cohen's computer and extracted when the FBI raided his office,
The article you cited was discussing congressional investigators.
"Obtained" meant what Cohen submitted.
This is different than the evidence the FBI and Special Counsel has collected.
If you are aware of someplace the Special Counsel and FBI have publicly shared the evidence "seized from Cohen's computer and extracted when the FBI raided his office" please direct me to it.
Boy, you're really dense. Forget the WSJ article I posted. Go back and read the sentencing report that Mueller wrote up on Cohen and show me where it says that Cohen lied about communicating anything past January 2016 to the Trumps.
originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Extorris
That does not alter the objective purpose of the Special Counsel Investigation. I have read the that Robert Mueller's first and most important rule for his team is "No one leaks, no one speaks" until the investigation is done.
That already turned out to be BS. Corsi listed multiple pages of leaks with links and explanations in his 78 page criminal complaint against Mueller. I've posted a few of them in three separate posts on page 3 of this thread.
JUDGE:
"I don't know. I may be somewhat cynical. My guess is that you'll probably receive a lot of -- hundreds of pages of documents that essentially say 'no comment,' but I may be shocked if that's not the case," he added.
originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Extorris
That does not alter the objective purpose of the Special Counsel Investigation. I have read the that Robert Mueller's first and most important rule for his team is "No one leaks, no one speaks" until the investigation is done.
Corsi listed multiple pages of leaks with links and explanations in his 78 page criminal complaint against Mueller.
Upon review of ultimately produced documents, is was learned that the press spokesperson, Peter Carr, of the Office of the Special Counsel, engaged in secret meetings at Paul, a French café at 801 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W., where he orally leaked grand jury and other confidential information to the media, avoiding any written record of the leaks. This needs to be investigated and potentially prosecuted
originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Extorris
Everything listed in all of those pages are supposedly things Cohen lied about, you're not pointing out anything of value or making a point at all for that matter, much less addressing the topic of our conversation.
originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Extorris
Yeah like Trump's people didn't know there's no such thing as a *Crown prosecutor of Russia* 😆
originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Extorris
You're grasping at straws again as opposed to thinking through the other leaks and links provided along with their explanations.
originally posted by: Extorris
originally posted by: Rewey
originally posted by: Extorris
originally posted by: Carcharadon
If true I guess Mueller should be charged with perjury and roasted over the coals for it right?
It is factually untrue that Cohen's plea proves no back-channel connections between the Trump Campaign and Russia.
Maybe so, but it deserves some more critical analysis than is currently being applied by the MSM . I've paraphrased below a few excerpts from Wikipedia's 'timeline of the Trump-Russia collusion', which are all referenced and sourced on the Wiki page:
January 14: Cohen sends email to Russian general press email address pleading for help to make contact with a senior Russian official. January 16: Cohen follows up with another email, pleading for someone who speaks English to call him back to help.
May 10: Trump adviser Dearborn receives an email about arranging a "back-channel meeting between Trump and Putin".
Early June: Fusion GPS hires Christopher Steele
June 1: Papadopolous emails Clovis that "Russian MFA asking if Trump is interested in visiting Russia".
June 3: Goldstone emails Trump Jnr about Russian government having dirt on Hillary
June 9: Trump Tower meeting takes place
July 22~26: an undated report submitted claiming "a well developed conspiracy of cooperation" between Trump team and Putin
July 31: FBI's Crossfire Hurricane investigation into collusion between Trump and Russia begins
These points are all undisputed. My queries and thoughts are:
Again, that timeline is useful in demonstrating the ongoing effort to establish contact and potentially "collude" aka trade policy promises favorable to Russia for help getting elected.
It does not speak to whether or not those efforts were successful.
Your timeline presumes that the accusation existed there was successful back-channels at those times.
Maybe include these facts in your timeline and you might see why the Special Counsel has been so concerned with the Trump Tower meeting.
June 9th, 2016
Trump tower meeting to discuss “Dirt on Hillary Clinton”
The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.
This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump - helped along by Aras and Emin.
June 12, 2016
Assange announces WikiLeaks will publish new Clinton-mails
July 18th 2016
Republican National Convention
Trump Campaign Members strip language from the Republican National Platform calling for arming and defending Ukraine from Russian aggression.
July 22, 2016
WikiLeaks launches DNCLeaks
WikiLeaks publishes the first load of DNC mails