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Mueller withheld Exculpatory Evidence from Court to Exonerate Trump – Mueller LIED to the Court!

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posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 09:05 AM
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originally posted by: Rewey

originally posted by: Extorris

originally posted by: Carcharadon
If true I guess Mueller should be charged with perjury and roasted over the coals for it right?



It is factually untrue that Cohen's plea proves no back-channel connections between the Trump Campaign and Russia.



Maybe so, but it deserves some more critical analysis than is currently being applied by the MSM . I've paraphrased below a few excerpts from Wikipedia's 'timeline of the Trump-Russia collusion', which are all referenced and sourced on the Wiki page:


January 14: Cohen sends email to Russian general press email address pleading for help to make contact with a senior Russian official. January 16: Cohen follows up with another email, pleading for someone who speaks English to call him back to help.



May 10: Trump adviser Dearborn receives an email about arranging a "back-channel meeting between Trump and Putin".



Early June: Fusion GPS hires Christopher Steele



June 1: Papadopolous emails Clovis that "Russian MFA asking if Trump is interested in visiting Russia".



June 3: Goldstone emails Trump Jnr about Russian government having dirt on Hillary



June 9: Trump Tower meeting takes place



July 22~26: an undated report submitted claiming "a well developed conspiracy of cooperation" between Trump team and Putin



July 31: FBI's Crossfire Hurricane investigation into collusion between Trump and Russia begins


These points are all undisputed. My queries and thoughts are:

1. If the May 10 email was seeking a back channel of communication between Trump and Putin, it obviously didn't exist before then, which includes during the time of Cohen's emails.

2. FBI must only be basing investigation on evidence from before July 31, but obviously after email of May 10, as no 'back channel' existed before then. This is also after Papadopolous got drunk and blabbed to Downer on May 1.

3. If Russian government had dirt on Hillary on June 3, why didn't Russian government contact Trump directly, instead of going through Agalarov, then Goldstone, then Trump Jnr? Weren't they colluding?

4. If a back channel existed between Trump and Putin, why didn't Trump just call Putin on June 3 after hearing about Hillary dirt? Why did he wait a whole week for the meeting to be held with random others?

5. If Cohen confesses that communications about Trump Tower actually continued until 'at least June 2016', again why did the Russian government go through Agalarov, Goldstone and Trump Jnr regarding Hillary dirt on June 3? And why did Russia ask via Papadopolous, a nobody, if Trump wanted to visit Russia on June 1?

6. If Mueller has copies of the May 10 email seeking to open a back channel, how does this impact Cohen's emails which is being touted as evidence of collusion by the media?

7. If the very convenient report of 22~26 July, just days before the FBI commenced Crossfire Hurricane, found a "well developed conspiracy of cooperation between Trump and Russia", how well developed could it be if no back channel existed as per the May 10 email, or convoluted chain of emails regarding Hillary dirt on June 3-9?

8. Most importantly, why isn't the MSM applying even a modicum of scrutiny to this timeline, none of which is in dispute?


Ouch. This post should be pinned to the top of every page of this thread.




posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 09:09 AM
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a reply to: Extorris

You're grasping at straws by trying to confuse investigations. The emails all would have been seized from Cohen's computer and extracted when the FBI raided his office, regardless of what the Trump's voluntarily provided. There is nothing in Mueller's sentencing report for Cohen stating there were any other communications found between Cohen and the Trump family past January 2016 or it would have been listed as one of the lies, and it wasn't.



posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 09:12 AM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: Extorris



Or is it your view that any peaceful resolution involves sacrificing US sovereignty in free elections and allowing foreign interference and cyber-crimes?


Be honest, the entire purpose of this investigation is political damage to President Donald Trump.


Partisan Media will opine in defense or criticism of the President. Same as it ever was, ever.

That does not alter the objective purpose of the Special Counsel Investigation. I have read the that Robert Mueller's first and most important rule for his team is "No one leaks, no one speaks" until the investigation is done. The last Special Counsel investigation (Whitewater) had regular press conferences and steady leaks designed to damage President Clinton. It began with investigating a Real-Estate transaction and ended with impeaching him for having an affair with a Whitehouse intern. Special Counsel Mueller has conducted this investigation with a stunning amount of restraint, focus and integrity. The purpose is to determine if their was any illicit contacts between the Russian Government and the 2016 Trump Campaign and appropriately prosecute any related federal crimes uncovered in the course of that investigation.



posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 09:15 AM
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originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Extorris

You're grasping at straws by trying to confuse investigations. The emails all would have been seized from Cohen's computer and extracted when the FBI raided his office,


The article you cited was discussing congressional investigators.
"Obtained" meant what Cohen submitted.

This is different than the evidence the FBI and Special Counsel has collected.

If you are aware of someplace the Special Counsel and FBI have publicly shared the evidence "seized from Cohen's computer and extracted when the FBI raided his office" please direct me to it.



posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 09:25 AM
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originally posted by: Rewey

originally posted by: Extorris

originally posted by: Carcharadon
If true I guess Mueller should be charged with perjury and roasted over the coals for it right?



It is factually untrue that Cohen's plea proves no back-channel connections between the Trump Campaign and Russia.



Maybe so, but it deserves some more critical analysis than is currently being applied by the MSM . I've paraphrased below a few excerpts from Wikipedia's 'timeline of the Trump-Russia collusion', which are all referenced and sourced on the Wiki page:


January 14: Cohen sends email to Russian general press email address pleading for help to make contact with a senior Russian official. January 16: Cohen follows up with another email, pleading for someone who speaks English to call him back to help.



May 10: Trump adviser Dearborn receives an email about arranging a "back-channel meeting between Trump and Putin".



Early June: Fusion GPS hires Christopher Steele



June 1: Papadopolous emails Clovis that "Russian MFA asking if Trump is interested in visiting Russia".



June 3: Goldstone emails Trump Jnr about Russian government having dirt on Hillary



June 9: Trump Tower meeting takes place



July 22~26: an undated report submitted claiming "a well developed conspiracy of cooperation" between Trump team and Putin



July 31: FBI's Crossfire Hurricane investigation into collusion between Trump and Russia begins


These points are all undisputed. My queries and thoughts are:

1. If the May 10 email was seeking a back channel of communication between Trump and Putin, it obviously didn't exist before then, which includes during the time of Cohen's emails.

2. FBI must only be basing investigation on evidence from before July 31, but obviously after email of May 10, as no 'back channel' existed before then. This is also after Papadopolous got drunk and blabbed to Downer on May 1.

3. If Russian government had dirt on Hillary on June 3, why didn't Russian government contact Trump directly, instead of going through Agalarov, then Goldstone, then Trump Jnr? Weren't they colluding?

4. If a back channel existed between Trump and Putin, why didn't Trump just call Putin on June 3 after hearing about Hillary dirt? Why did he wait a whole week for the meeting to be held with random others?

5. If Cohen confesses that communications about Trump Tower actually continued until 'at least June 2016', again why did the Russian government go through Agalarov, Goldstone and Trump Jnr regarding Hillary dirt on June 3? And why did Russia ask via Papadopolous, a nobody, if Trump wanted to visit Russia on June 1?

6. If Mueller has copies of the May 10 email seeking to open a back channel, how does this impact Cohen's emails which is being touted as evidence of collusion by the media?

7. If the very convenient report of 22~26 July, just days before the FBI commenced Crossfire Hurricane, found a "well developed conspiracy of cooperation between Trump and Russia", how well developed could it be if no back channel existed as per the May 10 email, or convoluted chain of emails regarding Hillary dirt on June 3-9?

8. Most importantly, why isn't the MSM applying even a modicum of scrutiny to this timeline, none of which is in dispute?

Excellent summary


Every contact between Trump's people and Putin's people -- literally every single one we've seen, with no exceptions -- are just "feelers" trying to establish contact. We've seen no evidence they had any kind of regular contact before Trump was elected. Where is this supposed secret back channel? Why weren't they using it? Occam's Razor suggests that the most likely answer is "Because no such channels existed."



posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 10:46 AM
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a reply to: Extorris


That does not alter the objective purpose of the Special Counsel Investigation. I have read the that Robert Mueller's first and most important rule for his team is "No one leaks, no one speaks" until the investigation is done.


That already turned out to be BS. Corsi listed multiple pages of leaks with links and explanations in his 78 page criminal complaint against Mueller. I've posted a few of them in three separate posts on page 3 of this thread.



posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 10:54 AM
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originally posted by: Extorris

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Extorris

You're grasping at straws by trying to confuse investigations. The emails all would have been seized from Cohen's computer and extracted when the FBI raided his office,


The article you cited was discussing congressional investigators.
"Obtained" meant what Cohen submitted.

This is different than the evidence the FBI and Special Counsel has collected.

If you are aware of someplace the Special Counsel and FBI have publicly shared the evidence "seized from Cohen's computer and extracted when the FBI raided his office" please direct me to it.


[snipped] Forget the WSJ article I posted. Go back and read the sentencing report that Mueller wrote up on Cohen and show me where it says that Cohen lied about communicating anything past January 2016 to the Trumps. What it does say is that Cohen lied about having contact with Russians on the Moscow project. Cohen led investigators to believe that ALL of HIS negotiations with Russians ended in January 2016 (the last time he communicated with the Trumps) when he actually kept in touch with Russians on the project until June 2016 EVEN THOUGH NOTHING materialized from that contact. Cohen was busted for lying about a date. He didn't get busted for being in contact with a Russian. None of it matters. Trump didn't even know he was going to become the Republican candidate for President until around that time anyway. There was no reason for Trump to stop negotiations until he knew that he had a shot at becoming President. Heck, in reality, it's probably not even considered wrong unless he did it AFTER he had been voted in as President.
edit on 12.5.2018 by Kandinsky because: Removed ad-hom



posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 11:56 AM
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originally posted by: Rewey

originally posted by: Extorris

originally posted by: Carcharadon
If true I guess Mueller should be charged with perjury and roasted over the coals for it right?



It is factually untrue that Cohen's plea proves no back-channel connections between the Trump Campaign and Russia.



Maybe so, but it deserves some more critical analysis than is currently being applied by the MSM . I've paraphrased below a few excerpts from Wikipedia's 'timeline of the Trump-Russia collusion', which are all referenced and sourced on the Wiki page:


January 14: Cohen sends email to Russian general press email address pleading for help to make contact with a senior Russian official. January 16: Cohen follows up with another email, pleading for someone who speaks English to call him back to help.



May 10: Trump adviser Dearborn receives an email about arranging a "back-channel meeting between Trump and Putin".



Early June: Fusion GPS hires Christopher Steele



June 1: Papadopolous emails Clovis that "Russian MFA asking if Trump is interested in visiting Russia".



June 3: Goldstone emails Trump Jnr about Russian government having dirt on Hillary



June 9: Trump Tower meeting takes place



July 22~26: an undated report submitted claiming "a well developed conspiracy of cooperation" between Trump team and Putin



July 31: FBI's Crossfire Hurricane investigation into collusion between Trump and Russia begins


These points are all undisputed. My queries and thoughts are:



Again, that timeline is useful in demonstrating the ongoing effort to establish contact and potentially "collude" aka trade policy promises favorable to Russia for help getting elected.

It does not speak to whether or not those efforts were successful.

Your timeline presumes that the accusation existed there was successful back-channels at those times.

Maybe include these facts in your timeline and you might see why the Special Counsel has been so concerned with the Trump Tower meeting.

June 9th, 2016
Trump tower meeting to discuss “Dirt on Hillary Clinton”

The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump - helped along by Aras and Emin.

June 12, 2016
Assange announces WikiLeaks will publish new Clinton-mails

July 18th 2016
Republican National Convention
Trump Campaign Members strip language from the Republican National Platform calling for arming and defending Ukraine from Russian aggression.

July 22, 2016
WikiLeaks launches DNCLeaks
WikiLeaks publishes the first load of DNC mails



posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 12:06 PM
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originally posted by: Deetermined

originally posted by: Extorris

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Extorris

You're grasping at straws by trying to confuse investigations. The emails all would have been seized from Cohen's computer and extracted when the FBI raided his office,


The article you cited was discussing congressional investigators.
"Obtained" meant what Cohen submitted.

This is different than the evidence the FBI and Special Counsel has collected.

If you are aware of someplace the Special Counsel and FBI have publicly shared the evidence "seized from Cohen's computer and extracted when the FBI raided his office" please direct me to it.


Boy, you're really dense. Forget the WSJ article I posted. Go back and read the sentencing report that Mueller wrote up on Cohen and show me where it says that Cohen lied about communicating anything past January 2016 to the Trumps.


This is the offence statement indicating/admitting only areas in which Cohen lied in testimony.


cdn.cnn.com...



posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 01:07 PM
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originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Extorris


That does not alter the objective purpose of the Special Counsel Investigation. I have read the that Robert Mueller's first and most important rule for his team is "No one leaks, no one speaks" until the investigation is done.


That already turned out to be BS. Corsi listed multiple pages of leaks with links and explanations in his 78 page criminal complaint against Mueller. I've posted a few of them in three separate posts on page 3 of this thread.


The first post you provided links to a case that was ruled on back on May 24th.

You provided the accusation but not the judges ruling or conclusion:



JUDGE:
"I don't know. I may be somewhat cynical. My guess is that you'll probably receive a lot of -- hundreds of pages of documents that essentially say 'no comment,' but I may be shocked if that's not the case," he added.


www.cnn.com...

As far as Corsi's claims, let me review those as well.

Edit to add: Reading through the relevant posts by you in thread, you appear to have conflated "leaks" with "leaks" by the SC's office.

There is zero evidence that the Special Counsel has leaked any information about the investigation.

Those interviewed thus far by the Grand Jury? Yes. Witness attorneys? Yes. The President's Attorney's? Big yes, but if you have proof that the Special Counsel itself has leaked anything, please provide it.

edit on 5-12-2018 by Extorris because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 01:24 PM
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originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Extorris


That does not alter the objective purpose of the Special Counsel Investigation. I have read the that Robert Mueller's first and most important rule for his team is "No one leaks, no one speaks" until the investigation is done.


Corsi listed multiple pages of leaks with links and explanations in his 78 page criminal complaint against Mueller.


The only accusation Jerome Corsi directly (the rest were media reports that he suggests were Special Counsel leaks without evidence of the same) made after Judicial Watch reviewed 9000 pages was this from Jerome Corsi's complaint:



Upon review of ultimately produced documents, is was learned that the press spokesperson, Peter Carr, of the Office of the Special Counsel, engaged in secret meetings at Paul, a French café at 801 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W., where he orally leaked grand jury and other confidential information to the media, avoiding any written record of the leaks. This needs to be investigated and potentially prosecuted

www.foxnews.com...

If he believes this to be true, then why did he not cite who Peter Carr met for dinner at that restaurant?
Would that not be relevant?

Considering Jerome Corsi made his career on claiming President Obama was a secret marxist terrorist born in Kenya, a reasonable person would need more than him just claiming something before believing it to be true.



edit on 5-12-2018 by Extorris because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 01:39 PM
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Is there a Trump Tower in Russia? Now, if they broke ground during his administration you might be able to make more news than there already is if that is possible but there is no project.

Why does not one care he rents space to the largest Chinese Bank in Trump Tower? That is a much better story and the fact that their lease is coming up in 2019 during his term.

I don't care about talks and dreams that never came to light. Happens all the time.



posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 07:59 PM
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a reply to: Extorris

Everything listed in all of those pages are supposedly things Cohen lied about, you're not pointing out anything of value or making a point at all for that matter, much less addressing the topic of our conversation.



posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 08:04 PM
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a reply to: Extorris

Yeah like Trump's people didn't know there's no such thing as a *Crown prosecutor of Russia* 😆

And like they didn't know the Russian lawyer was mysteriously *allowed* into the U.S. by Loretta Lynch by special visa 😆



posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 08:08 PM
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a reply to: Extorris

You're grasping at straws again as opposed to thinking through the other leaks and links provided along with their explanations.



posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 08:32 PM
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originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Extorris

Everything listed in all of those pages are supposedly things Cohen lied about, you're not pointing out anything of value or making a point at all for that matter, much less addressing the topic of our conversation.


That is a strangely disconnected response.

I answered your post directly: "show me where it says that Cohen lied about communicating anything past January 2016 to the Trumps."



posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 08:40 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Extorris

Yeah like Trump's people didn't know there's no such thing as a *Crown prosecutor of Russia* 😆



That is Russia's Prosecutor General, Yury Chaika.
The talking points memo the Russian Lawyer brought to the Trump Tower meeting was authored by Chaika two months prior.

He is also known as the "Master of Kompromat"
www.nytimes.com...



posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 08:42 PM
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originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Extorris

You're grasping at straws again as opposed to thinking through the other leaks and links provided along with their explanations.


Grasping at straws would be claiming any and all leaks pertaining to the Special Counsel investigation came from the Special Counsel when there has been zero evidence - while simultaneously ignoring the known steady flow of disclosures by Trump and Trump Campaign Attorney's and interviewed witnesses.



posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 10:22 PM
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originally posted by: Extorris

originally posted by: Rewey

originally posted by: Extorris

originally posted by: Carcharadon
If true I guess Mueller should be charged with perjury and roasted over the coals for it right?



It is factually untrue that Cohen's plea proves no back-channel connections between the Trump Campaign and Russia.



Maybe so, but it deserves some more critical analysis than is currently being applied by the MSM . I've paraphrased below a few excerpts from Wikipedia's 'timeline of the Trump-Russia collusion', which are all referenced and sourced on the Wiki page:


January 14: Cohen sends email to Russian general press email address pleading for help to make contact with a senior Russian official. January 16: Cohen follows up with another email, pleading for someone who speaks English to call him back to help.



May 10: Trump adviser Dearborn receives an email about arranging a "back-channel meeting between Trump and Putin".



Early June: Fusion GPS hires Christopher Steele



June 1: Papadopolous emails Clovis that "Russian MFA asking if Trump is interested in visiting Russia".



June 3: Goldstone emails Trump Jnr about Russian government having dirt on Hillary



June 9: Trump Tower meeting takes place



July 22~26: an undated report submitted claiming "a well developed conspiracy of cooperation" between Trump team and Putin



July 31: FBI's Crossfire Hurricane investigation into collusion between Trump and Russia begins


These points are all undisputed. My queries and thoughts are:



Again, that timeline is useful in demonstrating the ongoing effort to establish contact and potentially "collude" aka trade policy promises favorable to Russia for help getting elected.

It does not speak to whether or not those efforts were successful.

Your timeline presumes that the accusation existed there was successful back-channels at those times.

Maybe include these facts in your timeline and you might see why the Special Counsel has been so concerned with the Trump Tower meeting.

June 9th, 2016
Trump tower meeting to discuss “Dirt on Hillary Clinton”

The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump - helped along by Aras and Emin.

June 12, 2016
Assange announces WikiLeaks will publish new Clinton-mails

July 18th 2016
Republican National Convention
Trump Campaign Members strip language from the Republican National Platform calling for arming and defending Ukraine from Russian aggression.

July 22, 2016
WikiLeaks launches DNCLeaks
WikiLeaks publishes the first load of DNC mails



Again with respect, I feel like you're entirely missing the point again, and I'm not sure if you're being deliberately diversionary now.

No one is disputing the Trump Tower meeting took place, or it's importance, just like no one is disputing that the Russian lawyer was granted a special visa by the Obama administration just in time for the meeting, or that she met with Fusion GPS immediately before and after the meeting - everyone gets it.

My point is, and has consistently been, if the relationship between Trump and Putin was one of close collusion and conspiracy as has been claimed for years, then:

1. Why did Putin seek to get Hillary dirt to Trump via a convoluted chain of emails including Alagorov, Goldstone and Trump Jnr rather than just contacting him directly; and

2. When Trump heard Putin had Hillary dirt through this chain of emails on June 3, why didn't he wait a week for a meeting or random rather than just contacting Putin directly? After all, people have been claiming they've been close personal contacts since a 2013 Miss Universe pageant (even in this very thread).

To me, it sounds like there was no direct communication channel, collusion or conspiracy during the time of Cohen's January 14 and 16 emails, or at the time of the May 10 email, nor in early June when the Hillary dirt was being discussed.

Can I simply just have your thoughts on that?
edit on 5-12-2018 by Rewey because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 10:46 PM
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The Washington Post is even more toxic against Trump and America than usual today.

The "news" paper is stupefied and angry that Mueller is sharing his findings with acting AG Whitaker, and with President Trump's attorneys.

Here's another reason why the this terrorist-friendly publication is scared to death. They've been receiving and re-printing classified material, thinking that it was safe to do so, due to the leakers (top Obama govt officials) promising protection.

Now that virtually every top corrupt person at the FBI is GONE, the Washington Post is realizing that the firewall is also GONE.

Here's an interesting Exchange between Lindsay Graham and Assistant AG Sally Yates, back when the Firewall(s) were holding and resisting.

Link: theconservativetreehouse.com...



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