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Cohen Plea Deal Beginning to Look a Lot Like Exoneration for Trump

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posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 12:55 PM
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Contrary to media speculation that Robert Mueller is closing in on President Trump, the special prosecutor’s plea deal with Trump’s personal lawyer Michael Cohen offers further evidence that the Trump campaign did not collude with Russians during the 2016 election, according to congressional investigators and former prosecutors.

...


The nine-page charging document filed with the plea deal suggests that the special counsel is using the Moscow tower talks to connect Trump to Russia. But congressional investigators with House and Senate committees leading inquiries on the Russia question told RealClearInvestigations that it looks like Mueller withheld from the court details that would exonerate the president. They made this assessment in light of the charging document, known as a statement of “criminal information” (filed in lieu of an indictment when a defendant agrees to plead guilty); a fuller accounting of Cohen’s emails and text messages that Capitol Hill sources have seen; and the still-secret transcripts of closed-door testimony provided by a business associate of Cohen.

On page 7 of the statement of criminal information filed against Cohen, which is separate from but related to the plea agreement, Mueller mentions that Cohen tried to email Russian President Vladimir Putin’s office on Jan. 14, 2016, and again on Jan. 16, 2016. But Mueller, who personally signed the document, omitted the fact that Cohen did not have any direct points of contact at the Kremlin, and had resorted to sending the emails to a general press mailbox. Sources who have seen these additional emails point out that this omitted information undercuts the idea of a “back channel” and thus the special counsel's collusion case.

Page 2 of the same criminal information document holds additional exculpatory evidence for Trump, sources say. It quotes an August 2017 letter from Cohen to the Senate intelligence committee in which he states that Trump “was never in contact with anyone about this [Moscow Project] proposal other than me.” This section of Cohen’s written testimony, unlike other parts, is not disputed as false by Mueller, which sources say means prosecutors have tested its veracity through corroborating sources and found it to be accurate.

Also notable, Mueller did not challenge Cohen’s statement that he “ultimately determined that the proposal was not feasible and never agreed to make a trip to Russia.”


www.realclearinvestigations.com...

As always, this source relies on anonymous sources, and thus we should take it with a grain of salt.

However, If this is true, its further proof that Trump was not involved with Kremlin officials to break the law.

The horrible contacts his former lawyer Cohen had with Russia, that the MSM has breathlessly been discussing how it may be the end for Trump, was really just Cohen sending unanswered emails to the general Russian press email.

That would be the same email you or me could look up on Russia's state webpage and email.

Why would this be the communication channel that two parties involved in a secret deal to steal an election would use? In fact, not only has their been no evidence whatsoever presented thus far of Trump contacting any Kremlin official, but when we do see any attempts, its low level Trump people meeting Russians that aren't high level officials at all.

In fact, the only high level Russian officials involved at all are those Hillary Clinton intermediary Fusion GPS employee, former British spy Christopher Steele, met with to get dirt on Trump. But I guess Mueller is too busy looking at decades old tax crimes to look into Democrat dealings with Kremlin officials.

Mueller is counting on the establishment mouth pieces, the MSM, to conflate a legal business deal Trump attempted in Russia with nefarious proof of collusion. And to some degree, that is working.

But for those of us actually concerned with seeing proof of Russian collusion, we have still been presented with absolutely nothing, and just propagandists spinning that nothing like its a big deal.


edit on 3-12-2018 by Grambler because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 12:59 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler


Why would this be the communication channel that two parties involved in a secret deal to steal an election would use? In fact, not only has their been no evidence whatsoever presented thus far of Trump contacting any Kremlin official, but whne we do see any attempts, its low level Trump people meeting Russians that aren't high level officials at all.



If Mueller had the very evidence you mention above, what legal or strategic reason would he have to share it with you and the world early rather than keep it in his pocket to further complete his case? Is it standard operating procedure on investigations to disclose whatever you've got as soon as you get it to the world and the very people you may be investigating?



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 01:03 PM
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originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Grambler


Why would this be the communication channel that two parties involved in a secret deal to steal an election would use? In fact, not only has their been no evidence whatsoever presented thus far of Trump contacting any Kremlin official, but whne we do see any attempts, its low level Trump people meeting Russians that aren't high level officials at all.



If Mueller had the very evidence you mention above, what legal or strategic reason would he have to share it with you and the world early rather than keep it in his pocket to further complete his case? Is it standard operating procedure on investigations to disclose whatever you've got as soon as you get it to the world and the very people you may be investigating?


Well two answers to this.

First, anything remotely to make Trump look bad has been leaked to the press so that the could discuss it endlessly, and despite that we have seen nothing leaked remotely close to what I mentioned above.

Second, sources with access to the material claim that in this instance particularly, which the media is making a big deal about, Cohen emailed the general press account of the Russian government, which all but shows he had no secret nefarious back channel.

Even if you overlook both of those things, my question to you would be if it turns out that all cohen did was email the russia press email when Mueller releases all of his findings, would that be considered somehow nefarious or indicative of a russian deal to help trump steal the election?



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 01:07 PM
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I've been saying this for over a year now. If Trump really had some kind of secret back-channel to Putin, why would Trump Jr. need to meet that lawyer at Trump Tower?

The Cohen plea demonstrates the same thing: clearly they didn't have any Russian connections, because if they did Cohen wouldn't have been trying to get their attention by e-mailing some low-level official.



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 01:11 PM
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originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan
I've been saying this for over a year now. If Trump really had some kind of secret back-channel to Putin, why would Trump Jr. need to meet that lawyer at Trump Tower?

The Cohen plea demonstrates the same thing: clearly they didn't have any Russian connections, because if they did Cohen wouldn't have been trying to get their attention by e-mailing some low-level official.


I wonder if Hillary employee Christopher Steele had to email the russian press account to get the dirt he got on trump from Kremlin officials?

Oh wait, thats right, he met with those Kremlin officials in person.

But sorry, I forget Mueller, the FBI, the democrats, and the msm formula.

Trump connected people talk to any russian = horrible crime which must remove trump from presidency.

Hillary connected people meet with russians = perfectly fine and no reason to look at whatsoever, even if it is the exact same russians that trump's people are guilty for talking with.
edit on 3-12-2018 by Grambler because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 01:12 PM
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originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan
I've been saying this for over a year now. If Trump really had some kind of secret back-channel to Putin, why would Trump Jr. need to meet that lawyer at Trump Tower?

The Cohen plea demonstrates the same thing: clearly they didn't have any Russian connections, because if they did Cohen wouldn't have been trying to get their attention by e-mailing some low-level official.


🤔By God Watson, I think you've got it !!!😎



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 01:20 PM
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I read from National Review that Mueller is, essentially, building a report, not a case.

"The real flaw was the assumption that Special Counsel Mueller is lining up witnesses and building a criminal case, as prosecutors do." Et al.

Which goes hand in hand with a report.

"Mueller did not charge them as crimes because they are not crimes. Papadopoulos, Cohen, and the rest got jammed up, not for what they did, but for lying about what they did." Et al.

All part of the optics.

"That brings us to the “where there’s smoke, there must be fire” talking-point Mueller fans have been trying out: If all these people are lying to cover something up, that something must involve some egregious criminality. That’s ridiculous. We know from our own daily lives that crimes account for only a very small percentage of the things people lie about." Et al.


Source:https:
//www.nationalreview.com/2018/12/robert-mueller-plan-trump-russia-investigation-report-not-case/

--

Awesome thread Gambler, Star plus Flag.

Mueller is something that most people assume to know. We shall see in the end of it all.



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 01:21 PM
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originally posted by: Wayfarer
If Mueller had the very evidence you mention above, what legal or strategic reason would he have to share it with you and the world early rather than keep it in his pocket to further complete his case? Is it standard operating procedure on investigations to disclose whatever you've got as soon as you get it to the world and the very people you may be investigating?

Well, of course not, but it's also not SOP to base an overreaching investigation on unsubstantiated peepee dossiers and have them run by people with an open political disdain for the (supposed) person being investigated.

Standing (which is what the "S" actually stands for) Operating Procedure has been jettisoned long ago and replaced (or started with, I suppose) political conspiracy theories wholly unsubstantiated at the time or since.

And the fact that six undercover moles were planted in Trump's campaign isn't SOP, either.

But like Grambler already noted, this investigation has been full of leaks--many of which have been unsubstantiated lies--so to assume that Mueller has magically mustered the willpower to keep indictable evidence against Trump up his sleeve and securely against his vest is a rather silly proposition. I may have bought into that insinuation at the start of the investigation, but history shows that this most likely is not be the case.

I guess that it's always possible, though, however slight the possibility may be, but I doubt that it's probable.
edit on 3-12-2018 by SlapMonkey because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 02:06 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

Yes.

Fruit of the poisoned tree. Most people have lost sight of this.

The catalyst used for investigation is blatantly false and funded by political opponents. That alone nullifies anything that comes from it, and the judges and government officials that have acted upon this obviously false document are going to be in big trouble. John Roberts, I'm looking at you.



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 02:08 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Grambler


Why would this be the communication channel that two parties involved in a secret deal to steal an election would use? In fact, not only has their been no evidence whatsoever presented thus far of Trump contacting any Kremlin official, but whne we do see any attempts, its low level Trump people meeting Russians that aren't high level officials at all.



If Mueller had the very evidence you mention above, what legal or strategic reason would he have to share it with you and the world early rather than keep it in his pocket to further complete his case? Is it standard operating procedure on investigations to disclose whatever you've got as soon as you get it to the world and the very people you may be investigating?


Well two answers to this.

First, anything remotely to make Trump look bad has been leaked to the press so that the could discuss it endlessly, and despite that we have seen nothing leaked remotely close to what I mentioned above.

Second, sources with access to the material claim that in this instance particularly, which the media is making a big deal about, Cohen emailed the general press account of the Russian government, which all but shows he had no secret nefarious back channel.

Even if you overlook both of those things, my question to you would be if it turns out that all cohen did was email the russia press email when Mueller releases all of his findings, would that be considered somehow nefarious or indicative of a russian deal to help trump steal the election?


But making the claim that 'all or most of the damaging information to Trump has been leaked' infers that you have some knowledge of the sum total of what Mueller has. Isn't it possible that there is still more Hyper-Critical information that neither you nor I are aware of but that may be driving Mueller's decisions?

I surmise the fact that the email is not a specific 'back-door' channel can be used to diffuse some of the heat of the situation from outward appearances, but the morass that Cohen finds himself in is also partially driven by him lying previously and the uncertainty of his truthfulness moving forward.

As you posit if all Cohen did was send an email and nothing more, then no, I wouldn't think that nefarious at all. I will be supremely shocked however, if that's all that comes to light of this though.
edit on 49pm18fpmMon, 03 Dec 2018 14:14:31 -0600America/ChicagoMon, 03 Dec 2018 14:14:31 -0600 by Wayfarer because: grammar



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 02:13 PM
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originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: Wayfarer
If Mueller had the very evidence you mention above, what legal or strategic reason would he have to share it with you and the world early rather than keep it in his pocket to further complete his case? Is it standard operating procedure on investigations to disclose whatever you've got as soon as you get it to the world and the very people you may be investigating?

Well, of course not, but it's also not SOP to base an overreaching investigation on unsubstantiated peepee dossiers and have them run by people with an open political disdain for the (supposed) person being investigated.

Standing (which is what the "S" actually stands for) Operating Procedure has been jettisoned long ago and replaced (or started with, I suppose) political conspiracy theories wholly unsubstantiated at the time or since.

And the fact that six undercover moles were planted in Trump's campaign isn't SOP, either.

But like Grambler already noted, this investigation has been full of leaks--many of which have been unsubstantiated lies--so to assume that Mueller has magically mustered the willpower to keep indictable evidence against Trump up his sleeve and securely against his vest is a rather silly proposition. I may have bought into that insinuation at the start of the investigation, but history shows that this most likely is not be the case.

I guess that it's always possible, though, however slight the possibility may be, but I doubt that it's probable.


Hot damn learn something new every day. To think I've been misusing SOP for this long.... Thanks for the education!


I can sympathize with the feeling like its drug on too long or that there's nothing more to be leaked (heck, the fact that human beings are so awful at keeping secret things actually secret is my main argument against most of the conspiracy theories on this forum, so I'd be a hypocrite if I said that argument was faulty), but ultimately until the report comes out we can't do much more than conjecture on it ourselves. Whether its wishful thinking on my part or some other psychological foil that's driving my intuition, but my own gut feels like Mueller has more than we think he does. Perhaps I'll be coming back to this thread in month's to congratulate you on getting it right.



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 02:38 PM
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originally posted by: Wayfarer

Hot damn learn something new every day. To think I've been misusing SOP for this long.... Thanks for the education!


When a drill sergeant corrects you, you tend to remember that lesson for life



... but ultimately until the report comes out we can't do much more than conjecture on it ourselves. Whether its wishful thinking on my part or some other psychological foil that's driving my intuition, but my own gut feels like Mueller has more than we think he does. Perhaps I'll be coming back to this thread in month's to congratulate you on getting it right.

Meh, I agree with you (and repeat the same thing constantly, like I did to you) that wait-and-see is the name of the game. However, with all of my professional history in the legal field and understanding of how investigators and prosecutors tend to act, I have a differing conclusion than you.

But, I don't think that congratulations are in order either way, other than to celebrate the end of this debacle when it's over. Even then, though, we'll have to hear one or the other "side" drone on about what is wrong about the findings, so even then, we'll still be in the land of Mueller Misery.



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 02:41 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Funny what I see is proof that the white house and client#1 knew that Cohen was going to lie to congress before he did and sent him in there knowing that.
I see more obstruction of justice. I bet Robert Mueller sees that too.



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 02:48 PM
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by the time it's all over, the trump organization will be no more, once they find out about the bank fraud and money laundering among other felonies from that family....it's only a matter of when, not if.



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 02:56 PM
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a reply to: Grambler


The horrible contacts his former lawyer Cohen had with Russia, that the MSM has breathlessly been discussing how it may be the end for Trump, was really just Cohen sending unanswered emails to the general Russian press email.

That would be the same email you or me could look up on Russia's state webpage and email.


Actually, they received a response.

Putin official confirms Cohen contacted Kremlin over Trump Tower Moscow


“There were only these two emails. And we called them back in response,” Mr Peskov said. “We called them back and asked what the presidential administration has to do with that and whether they are aware who they contacted.”

Mr Cohen and a member of Mr Peskov’s office had a 20-minute phone call regarding the project, Mr Cohen said this week.

“We told them that the Presidential Administration doesn’t build houses, and if they want to invest in Russia that we will be happy to see them at the St Petersburg Economic Forum,” Mr Peskov said.



but when we do see any attempts, its low level Trump people meeting Russians that aren't high level officials at all.


Except when it was Flynn assuring Kislyak that Trump would roll back sanctions imposed because of Russian meddling? In fact, how many high level Trump people did Kisylak have contact with? Kushner met with him a few times, including for the express purpose of setting up a back channel. Kislyak setup themeeting between Kushner and Sergey Gorkov, President of state-run bank VEB. Speaking of central bankers, Don Jr met with Torshin (Butina's old boss) and both Erik Prince and Scaramucci met with Kirill Dmitriev, head of RDIF (state-run investment fund). If I'm not mistaken that was arranged by George Nader, Elliot Broidy's pederast partner and aide to MBZ (who apparently also represented the interests of MBS).

Oh, and Roger Stone though no longer part of the campaign formally, had direct communication with both "Guccifer 2.0" and WikiLeaks. Oh and Don Jr had communications with WikiLeaks.

That's off the top of my head. And let's not kid ourselves here, no matter what actually took place in that Trump Tower meeting, Don Jr was under the impression that he, Kushner and Manafort were meeting up with somebody important to get dirt straight from the Kremlin as part of their efforts to help his father's campaign. It was right in the email.

I'm not saying that any of those communications prove anything re "collusion" but your assertion isn't accurate.


In fact, the only high level Russian officials involved at all are those Hillary Clinton intermediary Fusion GPS employee, former British spy Christopher Steele, met with to get dirt on Trump. But I guess Mueller is too busy looking at decades old tax crimes to look into Democrat dealings with Kremlin officials.


I'd guess that Mueller actually did look into these dealings. Also, decades old tax crimes isn't really the case either? Sure, some of the crimes are 10+ years old but for instance, Manafort and Gate's criminal activities extended well into the election and at least Manafort's, past the election.


Mueller is counting on the establishment mouth pieces, the MSM, to conflate a legal business deal Trump attempted in Russia with nefarious proof of collusion. And to some degree, that is working.


I don't think Mueller is counting on any such thing. Though I agree in general that too much is being made of this re "collusion." On the other hand, it's another instance of Trump and his associates lying repeatedly and in particular, lying about things related to Russia.

But I suppose we shouldn't be suspicious about all the lying? Doesn't it ever bother you that all of these people in Trump's inner circle are liars and crooks? Also, Trump is the establishment now. The fact that he's an obnoxious asshole who can't comport his behavior doesn't change the fact that he's the President, his party has had unilateral control of the legislature for two years (and despite the early rumblings, the GOP has fallen in line behind him), executive branch agencies are all run by his appointees and he's appointed all sorts of judges including two SCOTUS justices.
edit on 2018-12-3 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 02:59 PM
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a reply to: jimmyx

Do we have to wait for years like we did with the Russia lie?

Because if we do, I will call BS and just wait for your evidence to never show up.

You guys make some big claims. I'm fine with that. I just don't think you should insist when guessing.


edit on 12 3 2018 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 02:59 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Julian Assange told a reporter that he did not leak anything negative or derogatory about President Trump and his campaign because Wikileaks could never find anything negative or derogatory.



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 03:34 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

The assumption here is that Cohen didn't have an e-mail address for Putin.

But Trump had already tried to get some face time with Putin back in 2013 and had communicated with Putin.

Trump was trying to get the Trump Tower Moscow deal happening and was talking to Aras Agalarov who was to facilitate the meeting between Trump and Putin through inviting Putin to the 2013 Miss World beauty pageant (run by Trump).

The letter inviting Putin is a matter of record.

Here's a promo photo of Trump, in Moscow at the beauty pageant with Agralov:

So, I'd suspect that Trump did have a direct contact address for Putin.



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 03:35 PM
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originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Grambler

Funny what I see is proof that the white house and client#1 knew that Cohen was going to lie to congress before he did and sent him in there knowing that.
I see more obstruction of justice. I bet Robert Mueller sees that too.


A little early in the day for using your special Lib glasses isn’t it?



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 03:39 PM
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originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Grambler

The assumption here is that Cohen didn't have an e-mail address for Putin.

But Trump had already tried to get some face time with Putin back in 2013 and had communicated with Putin.

Trump was trying to get the Trump Tower Moscow deal happening and was talking to Aras Agalarov who was to facilitate the meeting between Trump and Putin through inviting Putin to the 2013 Miss World beauty pageant (run by Trump).

The letter inviting Putin is a matter of record.

Here's a promo photo of Trump, in Moscow at the beauty pageant with Agralov:

So, I'd suspect that Trump did have a direct contact address for Putin.


Under which section of the US Code is any of that a crime?




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