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Study shows 63% of non citizens on welfare.

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posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 03:09 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: interupt42

One side loves it for votes and the other loves it for business.

American citizens never factor in.

The cynic in me says this is true, but there will be a point when American citizens, as a whole, will have had enough.

That will be a truly ugly day.




posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 03:12 PM
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a reply to: interupt42

The politicians on the left sure don't seem to care about the immigrants or they would try and make a Visa program so they can go back to central America and come for the work.

They get stuck here not wanting to have to cross over and over.

Imagine if they could go back with the money and invest in their country.

This problem isn't a problem to the people who are in power.

It's basically which lie do you like better. Then people argue about the lie.



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 03:19 PM
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originally posted by: Mach2

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: interupt42

One side loves it for votes and the other loves it for business.

American citizens never factor in.

The cynic in me says this is true, but there will be a point when American citizens, as a whole, will have had enough.

That will be a truly ugly day.


It would appear people are more fixated on the immigrants than the cause of the problem. They are filling voids in labor. Literally millions of jobs like roofing, framing, electricians, plumbers, concrete workers, masons.

Not all trades require advanced math or physics.


And in reality central American farmers desperate to learn a skill like carpentry are easier to teach than many young Americans.
edit on 3-12-2018 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 03:23 PM
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a reply to: luthier

Jobs that used to pay well, and people used to want. Why is it the wages decreased so much when there is a shortage of workers?



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 03:25 PM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

They haven't.

Trade wages are the highest they have ever been in many sectors.

I get paid so much for what I do I turn down work all the time.



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 03:26 PM
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a reply to: luthier

The problem is that even when Americans are willing to do those trade jobs at the rates illegals make, the employers can't make a living with those employees. Legal employees cost way more for employers to hire then just paying them wages. An illegal paid under the table doesn't incur those extra costs, so the employer pays the illegal $15/hour and that's it. He cannot hire the legal worker $15/hour and only pay $15/hour. So the illegal is still the more desirable worker to employ.

It is highly illegal for the employer to do that, but so many contractors can get away with it that it doesn't matter. It makes a serious impact into the labor market and legal workers have trouble finding work.



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 03:27 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko


Well I have been a carpenter for 22 years.

Wages have never been higher.

Read some articles on it.
edit on 3-12-2018 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 03:38 PM
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a reply to: luthier

Average wages

Construction
1973: $32
Today: $26



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 03:46 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: ketsuko


Well I have been a carpenter for 22 years.

Wages have never been higher.

Read some articles on it.


Still cheaper to pay an illegal even if they pay them the average wage. You weren't paying attention. The legal worker has hidden costs that make them ore expensive and that have nothing to do with actual wages.

money.cnn.com...


For Jim Garland, who owns a corporate aircraft cleaning and support services company, a $14 per hour worker has a true cost of $19.63 per hour, or about 40% more than base pay. This so-called "loaded rate" includes fixed expenses -- federal and state taxes, health insurance, workman's compensation, uniforms, and paid time off -- along with soft costs like the time spent training a new hire.


Since illegal employees are off the books, a lot of the legally mandated hidden costs are not incurred. So even if your wages are the same as an illegal employee's, they are still cheaper for your employer to pay.



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 03:58 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: ketsuko


Well I have been a carpenter for 22 years.

Wages have never been higher.

Read some articles on it.


Still cheaper to pay an illegal even if they pay them the average wage. You weren't paying attention. The legal worker has hidden costs that make them ore expensive and that have nothing to do with actual wages.

money.cnn.com...


For Jim Garland, who owns a corporate aircraft cleaning and support services company, a $14 per hour worker has a true cost of $19.63 per hour, or about 40% more than base pay. This so-called "loaded rate" includes fixed expenses -- federal and state taxes, health insurance, workman's compensation, uniforms, and paid time off -- along with soft costs like the time spent training a new hire.


Since illegal employees are off the books, a lot of the legally mandated hidden costs are not incurred. So even if your wages are the same as an illegal employee's, they are still cheaper for your employer to pay.


I am paying attention. I literally made this same point pages ago.

It isn't relevant to the jobs sitting unfilled or why the system is in this mode.


Let's look at this figure.


Average Carpenter Yearly Salary in New York. Carpenters earn an average yearly salary of $57,083. Salaries typically start from $29,946 and go up to $98,646.

edit on 3-12-2018 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 04:00 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: luthier

Average wages

Construction
1973: $32
Today: $26


You can not use inflation as an indicator alone. Our national debt creates most of that issue.



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 04:08 PM
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a reply to: luthier

My best friend works for IBM. Lot of jobs are unfulfilled. It's done on purpose. They then replace the US workers with foreign workers for much less pay. My friend was basically the only one left at IBM that understood a certain product that IBM acquired with the purchase of a company (my friend was at a different company and was ported over with the product). They fired all the other people who knew the product, hired people for cheaper who didn't, and expected my friend to do the work of about 5 people. When he had enough and put in his notice they told him he had to train others in the product first, he laughed in their face and left. They are so invested in removing US workers they were willing to go so far as to force out someone that was critical to them.



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 04:10 PM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

What does that have to do with inflation.

Construction jobs are not purposely unfilled.



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 04:28 PM
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a reply to: Asktheanimals

Well, let's not forget they had the Natives to help them out to, you know, survive.

Native Americans played crucial role in settlers' survival

Not only did Native Americans bring deer, corn and perhaps freshly caught fowl to the feast, they also ensured the Puritan settlers would survive through the first year in America by acclimating them to a habitat they had lived in for thousands of years.

"It's well documented that the first Europeans who settled in the New World could not have made it through the first few winters without the assistance and knowledge of American Indians," said Dick Ropp, of Edinboro, chairman of the French Creek Living History Association, a group formed in 2003 to research and disseminate information about the French and American Indian presence in Western Pennsylvania.

"The Wampanoag who lived in the area taught the Pilgrims how to smoke and dry indigenous meat and fish and how to plant the three sisters -- corn, beans and squash -- in mounds fertilized by fish and blessed by powdered tobacco, which is also a natural insect repellent," said Kinorea "Two Feather" Tigri, a cultural practitioner and educator from Chippewa.

"They also taught how to navigate from place to place by water and over land, how to tan hides used for clothing, how to identify toxic plants and berries and explained the medicinal and culinary use of indigenous herbs."


So yes, the early settlers did indeed accept welfare from the people who already inhabited this land so let's just say America helping the new settlers as paying it forward, shall we? No? Yeah, I thought so.
edit on 3-12-2018 by Swills because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 04:37 PM
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originally posted by: network dude
www.washingtonexaminer.com...

Our nation was built by immigrants. BUT, those who came, did so legally, and brought skills and ambition with them.They didn't plop down in a chair in some government office waiting to be called to collect their benefits they busted their asses after risking their lives to get here. They built all that we enjoy today.

We need to encourage those who bring skills and ambition, and deny those who seem to want nothing but handouts.



^^^^That^^^^ is the difference the early immigrants who worked and

pulled together and become American and before the advent of benefits and

human rights



Now everyone has an entitled attitude, and a 'human right'



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 05:02 PM
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a reply to: eletheia

Those Mexicans laying shingles in 100 degree South West, landscaping, framing?

Sorry but people came and went across the border all the time without papers until a couple generations ago.



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 05:13 PM
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a reply to: luthier

So is it your opinion that welfare should be handed to any and all illegals since some of them do work you don't want to do?



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 05:37 PM
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a reply to: network dude

Did the illegal workers make it illegal to work legally or make laws loose for them to collect welfare?


Misplaced anger.

My position is that nobody is telling the truth. From trump to the Democrats as to why flocks of labor come here.


As a person who values personal liberty more than the nation I live (as was written many times by our founders as well) I think making it illegal to work because you came from another part of land is ridiculous.

We should be able to make work visas work.

If they did we wouldn't have the problem.



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 05:47 PM
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I just posted this in another thread and then saw this thread, thought maybe I would also post it here.


Illegal immigrants already in America cost American tax payers 6o billion dollars per year, so they say. Not a drop in the bucket by any stretch.

So please answer these questions, anyone.

Do you think it's right that struggling US taxpayers should bear the burden of their cost and the additional cost of even more immigrants, illegal or not?

Should the huge population of homeless and hungry vets as well as US citizens that are not getting help continue to be ignored so that we may fund and support immigrants from other countries (regardless of legality)?

Why would you want to add to our existing problems that are currently going unresolved and ignored?

How logical is it to compound our existing problems in order to support people from other countries that want our jobs?

Curios of anyones thoughts on these concerns many of us have.



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 06:02 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: network dude

Did the illegal workers make it illegal to work legally or make laws loose for them to collect welfare?


Misplaced anger.

My position is that nobody is telling the truth. From trump to the Democrats as to why flocks of labor come here.


As a person who values personal liberty more than the nation I live (as was written many times by our founders as well) I think making it illegal to work because you came from another part of land is ridiculous.

We should be able to make work visas work.

If they did we wouldn't have the problem.


Did you miss this, or are you not of the same opinion?


a reply to: ausername Hell no, you can't blame them. If I was told I could to live in Cancun, be given housing and money and food, all for nothing, I'd be there tomorrow. It's not their fault at all, it's the system that is ripe for abuse by design. The system needs to be fixed. In the past, it was politically expedient to kick this particular can down the road for the next guy. Whomever tackles it, will be hated by most today, due to political rhetoric, but history will smile on them if it works. Part of me really wants Trump to do something spectacular that even the haters have to admire. If for nothing else, to see the meltdowns.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you disagree, please explain why.




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