Seperating Atlantis from reality

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

I'm not speculating many cultures took great care of their oral traditions.

a reply to: Hanslune

You DID have to write it in a foreign language.

Buzz Buzz wrong - very close and you don't seem to understand the most important aspect of mythology do you?

Very sad - so explain to me why knowledge is more correct versus absolute knowledge?

So what is the "most important aspect of mythology"?

That you used the word "aspect" rings alarm bells, the foul odor of "philosophy" is in the air. Where's my canary . . . .

"Absolute knowledge"? Does such a thing exist?

Gotta terrible feeling it is my canary who will be sad . . . .

originally posted by: [post=24005597]Whatsthisthen

You DID have to write it in a foreign language.

If you are going to bring up a question in ancient Greek its considered apropos.

So what is the "most important aspect of mythology"?

That you can make up whatever you want

That you used the word "aspect" rings alarm bells, the foul odor of "philosophy" is in the air. Where's my canary . . . .

"Absolute knowledge"? Does such a thing exist?

For Gods within mythology - yes - for us - not so much.

a reply to: Hanslune

That you can make up whatever you want

You should be more specific...

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: [post=24005597]Whatsthisthen

You DID have to write it in a foreign language.

If you are going to bring up a question in ancient Greek its considered apropos.

So what is the "most important aspect of mythology"?

That you can make up whatever you want

That you used the word "aspect" rings alarm bells, the foul odor of "philosophy" is in the air. Where's my canary . . . .

"Absolute knowledge"? Does such a thing exist?

For Gods within mythology - yes - for us - not so much.

Actually I said "She has a name from the old Greek mythology." - from.

So the gods had "aspects"? or is that a modern idea applied?

You can guess again, bet you get it wrong. English please . . . .

a reply to: Hanslune
Yes that's what I said. I dont see how this Gobekli Tepe has anything to do with any of that. It is quite obviously not located anywhere near sea level.

Just like the whale bones that just happened to die in a place which some 50 million years latter would become an arid desert. Perfect for preserving bone and fossils, there must have been billions or not even that trillions of there species that lived and died in there short few million year time span, yet only those few were found.

That place, gobkli Tepe is only around because of the same reasons, and I dont see what some stone and brick hut town has to do with Atlantis. Like I said its not even a port city.

So what is your point?

So what does Gobkli Tepe have to do with Atlantis or any of that stuff, or what is you point on this 12,000 year thing? Are you being redundant or do you actually have a point. You know while I do not bother wasting my time on such things, even I do occasionally have lead on sentences.

That is that sentence you quoted was post another sentence. I am to lazy to take the 2 seconds to scroll up, but pretty sure its what they would call taken out of context.

a reply to: toysforadults

They tried. And they could have passed down things word for word for thousands of years. Yet that is not good enough.

It can only be counted upon up to a point. Not beyond it.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

Hmmm. I think some truth did survive. The question is, what is it?

I’m of the opinion that the chances of finding a true Atlantis as described by Plato are incredibly slim.
However, if such a romantic notion inspires individuals to jump on a boat or a plane and start searching then it can’t be a bad thing.
Even Atlantis click bait articles can be a positive thing if it gets a person reading Timaeus rather than scrolling 9gag for cat gifs.
Romantic notions that lead to adventure have inadvertently led to discoveries in the past and will again no doubt.
It might put a prickle in some of the pragmatic minds but that’s not a bad thing sometimes either.

a reply to: Hanslune

Stone tool making is a technology as is fire making - it doesn't just apply to modern stuff.

Less technology does have its advantages it allows a much more rapid turn over of people and controls population remarkably well.

Hmmm.

Technology is a modern word and my usage is perhaps lacking.

However, our modern western thinking does tend to retrospectively acquire people and things to, shall we say; gild the lily..

After all, science is only a few hundred years old.

There is a saying; mutton dressed as lamb. That refers to an older woman dressing like a teenager.

I would suggest science is lamb dressed as mutton.

For example; Isaac Newton is renowned as a scientist, yet he, as I understand things, considered himself a Natural Philosopher.

Methinks modern western intellectualism is not being entirely honest with it's interpretation of historical fact.

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: toms54

for sure, I look at the formation of some of the stone/ material in many of the ancient megaliths and it really does look like cement/ poured mixture of some sort

actually a lot of it would make a lot more sense if it in fact was

....ah guys you do know they've found the quarries that these stones came from, they were cut/bashed out and left marks of this occurring - making gravel leaves a different set of marks in a quarry.

Here is one of the quarries for Puma Punku:





.....why would they cut out blocks THEN break them up?

They have found quarries. An entirely new set of mysteries. Just looking at the pics you posted; how did they cut those chunks out? Copper chisels?

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

I enjoyed that whale bone link. Very cool.

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
Well even then, you not bound to find much of things that were around 12,000 years ago, or even half that.

Er you've never heard of Gobekli Tepe then?



Presently dated to 10,000-12,000 years ago

whc.unesco.org...

Most of the earth has not even been dug up yet.

History of Ukraine - Wikipedia
"Settlement in Ukraine by members of the genus Homo has been documented into distant prehistory. The Neanderthals are associated with the Molodova archaeological sites (43,000-45,000 BC) which include a mammoth bone dwelling.[11][12] Gravettian settlements dating to 32,000 BC have been unearthed and studied in the Buran-Kaya cave site of the Crimean Mountains.[13][14]"

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: toysforadults

They tried. And they could have passed down things word for word for thousands of years. Yet that is not good enough.

It can only be counted upon up to a point. Not beyond it.

When you think seriously about history, nearly all of it older than 600 - 700 years old is mythology. We don't have any original sources, only copies of copies, etc. It could have been changed over and over. The ancient peoples did not even record history like we do today. It was often fabricated to justify some king.

It was recorded in poems and explained by superstition. We don't even know if ancient authors like Homer actually existed. There are people today that don't believe Shakespeare existed.

All we have is Archeology. Once someone looks at that and offers an opinion, it is written in stone, so to speak, and very difficult to revise. In effect, a new myth.

originally posted by: SLAYER69
a reply to: toysforadults

From my research, remote Pacific islands, Easter Island, Tonga etc and South East Asian submerged coastal areas should be looked at and researched closely. Remember the oceans were up to 350 feet lower during the Ice Age. Much of the islands bases and coastal areas were exposed dry land

When we have more advanced underwater archeology, I think there will be countless thousands of discoveries waiting to be made.

This will probably require advanced drones and some hi tech imaging systems that can see what's under the sand, silt, mud at the bottom of the ocean.

There are probably SO many things that are less than 1-2 feet under, that you could dig with your bare hands, in relatively shallow water, if you only knew where to dig. Some things like shipwrecks are just sitting there on the seafloor...

Then again there are probably some structures that got flooded, and then through some other event, like a series of mudslides or landslides, earthquakes, hurricanes, human activity, etc, got buried under 50-100 feet of mud and rocks and debris and sand and stuff... imagine excavating that underwater.

Some stuff was just too fragile and too biodegradable and will never be seen or detected again in any meaningful way connected to its original form.

Just imagine much of the north American continent, the entirety of canada and then some, scraped clean by glaciers and flooding. Or imagine anything on the actual land of antarctica, crushed by the weight of a million tons of ice. Even if there was no human habitation, it wouldve been nice to know Something about life on Antarctica. Even plant life, they couldve had some amazing plants.

Like SuperMarijuana that grows giant SUV sized buds, and you dont even harvest the buds, you just take a jar full of sticky crystals off the living buds and thats all you need for a long time...

Too bad the ice pulverized its atoms into nothingness, its molecular structures are no longer recognizable and, like Humpty, cannot be pieced together again.

However, there is SURELY much to be found Still! Just mere inches below the sea floor...some of it may be preserved by its entombment. Maybe... there might even be Underwater SuperSeaWeed Marijuana...Living Underground...Under The Sea. It's been hiding in plain sight this whole time!


I want someone like Elon to work on making it safer and easier for humans to go to deep depths and develop everything we need for a proper underwater archeology team. This is all going to he relevant for space travel/exploration and we have PLENTY of work to be done (work translates into: experience to be gained, practice to be had, lessons to be learned, technology to be developed) right here on Earth.

There is so much to be gained with such a Little effort... a lot of stuff is just sitting on the seafloor and we ARE on a deadline since much of these items will deteriorate, sea storms can cause damage to them or scatter them across the planet.

But all you stupid sonofabitches care about is War and Power!! (not You stupid sobs reading this, I was talking to those Other stupid sobs over There...😉)

originally posted by: SLAYER69
I am not one who believes "Atlantis" existed as described by Plato, however...

I'm a firm believer of submerged coastal areas hiding unknown early cultures and Civilizations in prehistory. For example, The Iberian Peninsula may yet yield more information along these lines. One area in particular may be of interest to some here and may show signs of being wiped out in Prehistory by a Tsunami.

High-tech search company claims to have found Atlantis

If there’s one archaeological find that would turn the world on its head it would be the discovery of the lost city of Atlantis. Many have looked for the remains of the mythical locale, but nobody has come close to actually finding it and researchers claiming to have found it in the past have all ultimately been proven wrong.

Now, with a suite of high-tech hardware at its disposal, a company called Merlin Burrows believes it might have finally pinpointed the location where the city once stood. Needless to say, you should take everything you read from this point on with a huge grain of salt.

They were on the Atlantic side, could have sailed to the new world and had left the Relic known as the Lady of Elche which may have been recovered and later found in another location?

If we can separate the name "Atlantis" from other possible submerged real finds we may be onto a great revelation of unknown/forgotten human history. The stigma of "Atlantis" ruins open mindedness in considering tantalizing albeit circumstantial evidence for lost and unknown coastal ice aged cultures and civilizations located all around the Globe. I also do not proscribe to Graham H or other Youtube giants that proclaim an Ancient Lost Global Civ. I'm of the belief that each in their own time frame and possibly contemporary to each other rose independently and may have been in limited contact from time to time.

Genetics don't lie. They tell us that not much mixture occurred. However, artifacts don't lie either but in what context were they discovered and then it needs to be asked were they created in those locations or simply transplanted in prehistory and assumed to be part of any nearby known culture or Civs?. Be that as it may. The minute someone mentions the dreaded "A" word. Eyes roll and for many in academic circles minds simply shut down. Objectivity is required obviously, but so does a fair bit of open mindedness as well in my opinion.

I personally would like people to start refraining from using "Atlantis" with any and all new discovery and simply state.. "Hey check this out"

I'm convinced that there are unknown locations all around the globe yet to be discovered, Off coast lines, Submerged in Marshlands, Central Eurasia, Under vast tracks of deserts, North Africa and the Gobi. Not to mention all the now extinct dry river valleys that were for hundreds if not thousands of years sources of fresh water for thriving cultures and possibly Civilizations as the ice age melted and receded and that then went extinct and were simply covered by sand & time as humanities life blood in those areas dried up.

Coastal areas flooded, River valleys dried up, Sands covering vast areas, Mankind may have had to transplant several times around the globe. Starting over each time. In some locations it appears that some remnants may have been preserved, or venerated which became part of the roots of known cradle civilizations. Out of place artifacts may be evidence of either cross contact or remnants of an unknown time. Wild speculation is unleashed.

In the end for those on the fence I'd suggest go into any new read or discovery claiming to be "Atlantis" to mentally delete the name from it. Then explore the topic with fresh eyes towards new discovery of unknown Human history. If however, you're a staunch believer then you may have to deal with each new discovery of Atlantis popping up continually all over the globe.

If you ATS search Vlar Global Continental Displacement Wave you will discover an answer to why there is a discombobulation trying to parse Atlantis from within the group of submerged cities and also the ELEVATED ones we find on mountain tops....Atlantis has as much a chance of being atop a mountain range as it does of being submerged off a coastline.Yes many 3657 year long cycles of Civilised Humanity have existed and their histories ….2.bp.blogspot.com... the evidences of such are all intertwined .www.bing.com... rl=http%3a%2f%2ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2f8373%2f8532040475_67e4f48a27_z.jpg&exph=500&expw=500&q=tangled+slinky&simid=608009987094282343&selectedIndex= 2&ajaxhist=0

edit on 3-12-2018 by one4all because: (no reason given)

extra DIV

a reply to: schuyler

Thank you for interjecting some logic into something that was starting to get way too uselessly mystical. I was waiting to start reading about someone harmonizing with their energy crystals....

Mystic = Anti Social Obtuse person

originally posted by: toms54

All we have is Archeology. Once someone looks at that and offers an opinion, it is written in stone, so to speak, and very difficult to revise. In effect, a new myth.

The archaeological consensus view of the world constantly changes, some things don't change over time because the evidence itself doesn't change just the interpretation.

originally posted by: toms54

Most of the earth has not even been dug up yet.

History of Ukraine - Wikipedia
"Settlement in Ukraine by members of the genus Homo has been documented into distant prehistory. The Neanderthals are associated with the Molodova archaeological sites (43,000-45,000 BC) which include a mammoth bone dwelling.[11][12] Gravettian settlements dating to 32,000 BC have been unearthed and studied in the Buran-Kaya cave site of the Crimean Mountains.[13][14]"

Yep we have centuries of work before us however at present the oldest site that shows organization, large stone working and signs of a mythos is GT....lots of stuff older but at present GT is the best site we have for an advanced culture arising out of nomadic HG's.

originally posted by: toms54

They have found quarries. An entirely new set of mysteries. Just looking at the pics you posted; how did they cut those chunks out? Copper chisels?

The precise manner is unknown as they didn't have writing. However one unfinished stone was found:

The people of this region were conquered by the Inca and became their stone workers so the fine technique of the Inca is thought to be the same as these folks.



Jean-Pierre Protzen was the archaeologist who studied the Andes stone working technique.

digitalassets.lib.berkeley.edu...

• Protzen, Jean-Pierre; Stella Nair, 1997, Who Taught the Inca Stonemasons Their Skills? A Comparison of Tiahuanaco and Inca Cut-Stone Masonry: The Journal of the Society of Architectural Historians. vol. 56, no. 2, pp. 146-167

• Protzen, J.-P., and S.E.. Nair, 2000, On Reconstructing Tiwanaku Architecture: The Journal of the Society of Architectural Historians. vol. 59, no. 3, pp. 358-371.

"Garcilaso de la Vega wrote in 1609 that the Incas ‘had no other tools to work the stones than some black stones ... with which they dressed the stone by pounding rather than cutting’. Jose de Acosta, a Jesuit priest travelling with the conquistadors, wrote in 1589: ‘All this was done with much manpower and much suffering in the work, for to fit one stone to the other, until they were adjusted, it was necessary to try the fit many times."