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British Government on the Verge of Collapse.

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posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 03:42 AM
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a reply to: eletheia



Those businessmen are not employing people on zero hour contracts.

Oh really.
Wetherspoon boss defends zero-hours after profits leap to £77m

Lesson #1, never trust a businessman who meddles in politics. They are not meddling to benefit anyone but themselves. Lobbyists for their own personal gain. You say they are not politicians, The list you provide sees them deeply entrenched in politics. Lords, Tory party donors, CBE's etc etc.

They have our politicians in their back pockets but you're too stupid to notice.


edit on 11-12-2018 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 03:47 AM
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originally posted by: djz3ro
I wonder what the people who have become of voting age think of not being allowed a say in their future too.

Kinda tough luck I say, they were too young when we voted to leave. That's not how referendums work, having another just because more people have become of voting age.
Regardless, with the decision being January now there will be no second referendum unless in really exceptional circumstances, I personally don't see that, and I'm glad. I voted to leave not for another vote to determine the deal.

Heck you could have a referendum every year using your logic about people becoming of voting age, ridiculous argument.



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 03:50 AM
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a reply to: Soloprotocol
Business and money has always driven politics, on both sides of the spectrum.
That's nothing new and will never change.



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 04:01 AM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy
And therein lies the problem. Democracy?. yer having a laugh. Brexit for these guys means we will see deregulation in the workplace. A society of slaves. Work till you drop.

Yeah, Everyone will be employed, but you'll have just enough left at the end of the week to get to work the following week. rinse and repeat.



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 04:02 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin



The issue of a second referendum has came up quite a few times and its rather interesting. The PMs argument is that it would undermine peoples faith in politics and be a slap in the face to individuals who voted for the first time thus destroying faith in politics for a generation. Now regardless if you think we should go back the ballot box or not that argument is utter pish as we say up in part of the world. Firstly most people under the age of 50 voted remain, actually 70% of people under 25 voted remain so to say that she will destroy their faith in politics is utter crap. If anything it would strengthen it. Now she is talking about undermining peoples faith in politics, this is the same parliament that was fiddling expenses, rife with sexual assault, took us a illegal war in Iraq......Someone needs to tell mrs may that the peoples faith in politics was destroyed a long time ago.


This has got to be the most disturbing thing I've read in quite some time.

*keeps reading*

Nevermind, you topped it:


Its quite simple, you give the people a vote, you acknowledge that in the last two years things have changed and a second vote is required because this government can't make up their mind or negotiate a decent deal. The vote for Brexit was utter crap anyway it was a simple in or out it didn't bother asking about the common market place for example, it wasn't a vote on how the UK would look post-brexit.


If at first you don't get the result you want, negotiate a deal that screws the people and make them vote for a screwing that you want or a screwing that they want! What a system you've invented in your mind!

This debacle lies at the feet of the remainers and the voters when may had her little election a few months after the brexit vote. It's really that simple. Idiots voted on stupid issues other than who would be able to get the best deal for the country now that you were getting out of the EU (That question has been answered, you're leaving, any attempt to undo democracy only undermines it). Now, pray tell, what were those issues that idiots voted against may's party for in that election? And how much progress has been made on those issues and was it worth it to screw your country over entirely?

Democracy doesn't have do-overs. Do-overs cause permanent instability which would crash your economy all by itself. Is that a good enough reason to not ignore your democratic process simply because you don't like that you lost?

ETA:
This really points to the bigger issue. It seems we are no longer one people with one purpose in our countries. It used to be that we all wanted what was best for our country, we just had different ideas on how to achieve it. When we lost, we accepted that the other side had policy ideas that were more liked. Now we fight tooth and nail after losing to keep the more popular policies from getting implemented. In the case of brexit you're advocating a full on sabotage and undoing. Your country would be far better off if your people had respected that more than half of the voters wanted to leave and ensured the country would leave in the best position possible. Instead you guys voted to undo democracy. Enjoy the result.
edit on 11-12-2018 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 04:10 AM
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a reply to: Soloprotocol



Brexit for these guys means we will see deregulation in the workplace.


Oh noes! Freedom!?!? Dammit all!



A society of slaves. Work till you drop.


Is this how it was before the EU? Is the EU the only mechanism to influence change in the UK?



Yeah, Everyone will be employed, but you'll have just enough left at the end of the week to get to work the following week. rinse and repeat.

Maybe stop taxing people at 20-40% and they'll have enough to live on? Just a thought.



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 04:16 AM
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originally posted by: Soloprotocol

Oh really.
Wetherspoon boss defends zero-hours after profits leap to £77m



I did omit certain jobs did I not waiting on staff etc.?

It suits some people students, mothers etc who need the flexibility



Lesson #1, never trust a businessman who meddles in politics. They are not meddling to benefit anyone but themselves. Lobbyists for their own personal gain. You say they are not politicians, The list you provide sees them deeply entrenched in politics. Lords, Tory party donors, CBE's etc etc.



They are people, are they not? and as such are entitled to an opinion, a vote,

..... same as you. They dont all have the same opinions there are remainers too

in the business world, so it does balance out.


But they are different in that they are SUCCESSFUL.


There is a section of society that hate to see any one get on... I'm not one of them.

Is the MP in your constituancy not available to you?



They have our politicians in their back pockets but you're too stupid to notice.


I wouldn't be so rude as to call you stupid but

you're like the turkey who votes for christmas!!!!



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 04:18 AM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite
Is this how it was before the EU? Is the EU the only mechanism to influence change in the UK?

Before the EU, industry was run by the unions, nearly crippled the country with their strikes and demands for pay rises.
Why people think working conditions will suddenly become worse after Brexit I have no idea, just more fear mongering by the SNP...you will note it is mostly the Scottish members on ATS who are against Brexit, they are brainwashed by propaganda.

I'm optimistic for the future, I believe the UK will survive and come out stronger in the longer term, a true sovereign nation trading with the world like Canada, Australia, NZ, etc...
edit on 11-12-2018 by CornishCeltGuy because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 04:26 AM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

The scottish make me sad. They have such a history of greatness and independence. Now they're a bunch of nanny state wimps.

This idea that democracy is only right when it gets the "right" result is so sickening. I sure hope these people wake up one day. Until then I have a hard time being optimistic about any country with democratic processes.
edit on 11-12-2018 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 04:50 AM
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a reply to: Dfairlite
The Scots want to stay in the EU and they may be having yet another referendum soon to leave the UK...only to be ruled from Brussels instead and forced to use the Euro currency.
That ain't independence.



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 05:03 AM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

Sorry but that is utter nonsense.

The ability to change your mind of one of the fundamental pillars of democracy. If the majority of people now don't want to leave th EU the carrying on and leaving regardless would be incredibly undemocratic.



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 05:05 AM
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originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: Dfairlite
Is this how it was before the EU? Is the EU the only mechanism to influence change in the UK?

Before the EU, industry was run by the unions, nearly crippled the country with their strikes and demands for pay rises.
Why people think working conditions will suddenly become worse after Brexit I have no idea, just more fear mongering by the SNP...you will note it is mostly the Scottish members on ATS who are against Brexit, they are brainwashed by propaganda.

I'm optimistic for the future, I believe the UK will survive and come out stronger in the longer term, a true sovereign nation trading with the world like Canada, Australia, NZ, etc...


Ever occur to you that you are one being brainwashed by the leave propaganda?



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 05:06 AM
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originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: Dfairlite
use the Euro currency.
That ain't independence.


I agree with that part.



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 05:07 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot
Lol no, I read both sides and don't assert my hopes or fears as facts. That is what annoys me about the doom porn when it is posted on ATS as if it is a fact.
It's dishonest.



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 05:17 AM
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It's been two and a half years since the Brexit vote. If we are going to split hairs that's a quarter of a decade. The fact remains that the referendum was conducted under two appalling main campaigns. Cameron's 'Remain' team basically screwed things up from start to finish and relied on outdated tactics of demonising their opponents (because that's what Cameron did best). As for the 'Leave' campaign, words fail me - a vast swathe of lies about how we could get great trade deals from the Commonwealth. FFS, we are a small offshore island in Europe. Europe is literally right on our bloody doorstep, it's a natural place to do business. Enough of all this rubbish about trading on a large-scale basis with Australia, that's on the other side of the damn planet. France is 20 miles away!
If there is one thing that the recent polls have shown, it's that a lot of people have changed their minds about Brexit, they agree that it's not an easy issue to solve and they remain deeply unimpressed with Theresa May's approach.
This is also the most divisive issue I have ever seen in British politics. Yes, I want a second referendum. This is because it's been two and a half bloody years since the last one, which was screwed up beyond belief. And I want it to be based on facts. Not histrionics, lies, vague assumptions and anything that emerges from the mouth of Jacob Rees-Mogg (the member from the 16th Century as some in Parliament call him) or Boris Johnson (who has become a bloviating imbecile).



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 05:21 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

LMAO, Changing your mind isn't even a pillar of democracy, certainly not a fundamental one.

The fundamental pillars of democracy are equity, representation, freedom and justice.

What you suggest is the most instable form of government one could ever invent. Where you just vote on things endlessly and whipsaw back and forth. It's amazing how sore of losers you guys are.



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 05:23 AM
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a reply to: AngryCymraeg
Your username seems appropriate reading that mate.
I don't want a second referendum, just leave the EU and continue trading as a sovereign nation.
We'll never find agreement on this of course but interesting reading your passionate opinion.



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 05:27 AM
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a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Two months after barack obama's re-election in the US everyone regretted it. Polls showed romney would win in a landslide. Guess we should have just had one of those slick do-overs, huh? Or how about prop 8 in california, amending their constitution to prevent gay marriage. That nearly succeeded. Guess we need a do over.



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 05:32 AM
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originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: AngryCymraeg
Your username seems appropriate reading that mate.
I don't want a second referendum, just leave the EU and continue trading as a sovereign nation.
We'll never find agreement on this of course but interesting reading your passionate opinion.



Agreed about the chances of finding agreement about this - it's always good to have a reasoned debate though, so your comments are always worth reading!
I genuinely don't know what the endgame is going to be on this. The level of division and confusion is worrying me a lot and the financial implications are beyond terrifying.
What astonishes me is how badly May's Government are screwing everything up. Governments are not normally found to be in contempt of Parliament. What else are they holding back?



posted on Dec, 11 2018 @ 05:40 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin



Its quite simple, you give the people a vote, you acknowledge that in the last two years things have changed and a second vote is required .....


Why is a second vote required because 'things have changed'?

Things have changed since the last general election....should we have another one of them as well?



The vote for Brexit was utter crap anyway it was a simple in or out.....


That's what referendum's are - a simple yes/no or A/B.
Two options and you select which one you prefer.



.... it didn't bother asking about the common market place for example,


Sorry, I don't understand you?

If you mean a Free Trade Agreement I think you'll find that's what the British people voted for in 1975, no mention of political union....I think support for a Free Trade Agreement is still quite strong.



....it wasn't a vote on how the UK would look post-brexit.


That's for us to influence through the ballot box and for politicians to implement.
We don't have referendums on every single aspect of government policy.....if we did then there's be no need for parliament.....oh, hang on a minute, not a such a bad idea after all.




Other states have had multiple referendums to make decisions such as this.


Yes, because the people have had the audacity to vote against government and establishment wishes.....same as is happening here; the people voted for Brexit and everything possible has been done to delay and derail that process.
All the 'major' political parties, the political elite and the establishment wish to remain in the EU....and so their will must be obeyed and another referendum will take place to ensure their will is enforced and the status quo remains and their control and power over us is stronger than ever.



I don't think many people voted to have the pound crash, hospital running out of meds, ripping up the good Friday agreement, economic collapse the list goes on.


Project Fear has worked its magic on you my friend.



If people believe so passionately in Brexit then what is the harm in a second referendum, .....


Because the result of the first one hasn't been enacted yet.

We don't have a second general election to verify the results of the first one just to make sure do we, so why should it be any different with a referendum?
We haven't had a second referendum after any previous referendums, so why should it be any different with this one?



if its such a good idea they should be able to make their case to the British people and get it through a second referendum.


Hand on heart, would you say that if the people had voted Remain?


edit on 11/12/18 by Freeborn because: (no reason given)







 
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