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British Government on the Verge of Collapse.

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posted on Dec, 7 2018 @ 09:14 AM
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originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: eletheia
I don't really think it is comparable to a divorce. With a divorce, you sign a marriage contract and obviously you have legal documents to sign regarding assets, housing, etc, but it is only a relative few documents.


I wouldn't have called it divorce either, more a club member. However it is

constantly being referred as a divorce, with a monetery settlement already

on the table..... unlike any divorce I know of.




With Brexit, we have over 40'000 legal acts to go through covering trade alone. Add to that the 40-50 years of social, cultural and political harmonisation, all covered by legal agreements, there is a huge amount to unpick.


When the leave vote came in, that should have been the start of the

unpicking instead of the two plus years that have been wasted in trying

to fathom a 'deal' that should have been the beginning of the transitional

period.

The EU was always going to drag it out..... a lesson to other dissatisfied

members waiting to leave, make an example of what would happen to

them!



It was never going to be a case of "Brexit has been voted so now we simply leave". If you think back to the monster thread over the last couple of years, i pointed this out very early on. It is a long and complicated procedure that will inevitably end up a lose lose situation for both us and the EU



It didn't have too It could have been amicable.

The EU sabre rattling ..... in front of the other members 'you will remain'




May's plan wasn't good but it at least was workable. I have yet to see an MP that is against this plan offer a viable alternative



Mays deal was highly deceptive and she sold out Northern Ireland.

How can you agree with the back stop when the untrustworthy EU has

the final say on it?




posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 05:05 AM
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a reply to: eletheia

The problem is that because the (40'000 plus) agreements are all legally binding agreements, you can't legally begin to unpick them until you have a replacement agreement in place. You could come up with proposals but nothing more. It's kind of a catch 22 and no, it wasn't designed that way just to trap member states! It's just one of those things.

As to the EU, i really do not think they have any other option than (publically) sabre rattling. They could be more conciliatory behind closed doors (and probably are) but publically they have to keep the stern face.



posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 05:30 AM
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originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: eletheia

It's kind of a catch 22 and no, it wasn't designed that way just to trap member states! It's just one of those things.



I dont believe anyone is that naive./smh



posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 05:46 AM
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originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: eletheia

It's kind of a catch 22 and no, it wasn't designed that way just to trap member states! It's just one of those things.



I dont believe anyone is that naive./smh

It is the way transnational legal agreements work - it is to stop one side exploiting any such agreements. You have to follow the legal framework. Honestly, why this a suprise to anyone demonstrates why the Brexit issue is such a mess.






posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 10:17 AM
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Because I am sad and lonely I am listening to the debate in parliament right now.

The issue of a second referendum has came up quite a few times and its rather interesting. The PMs argument is that it would undermine peoples faith in politics and be a slap in the face to individuals who voted for the first time thus destroying faith in politics for a generation.

Now regardless if you think we should go back the ballot box or not that argument is utter pish as we say up in part of the world. Firstly most people under the age of 50 voted remain, actually 70% of people under 25 voted remain so to say that she will destroy their faith in politics is utter crap. If anything it would strengthen it. Now she is talking about undermining peoples faith in politics, this is the same parliament that was fiddling expenses, rife with sexual assault, took us a illegal war in Iraq......Someone needs to tell mrs may that the peoples faith in politics was destroyed a long time ago.



posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 10:33 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

How many votes do you propose should be taken?
2?
5?
best of 7?



posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 10:38 AM
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a reply to: shooterbrody

Kind of a stupid argument that.

Its quite simple, you give the people a vote, you acknowledge that in the last two years things have changed and a second vote is required because this government can't make up their mind or negotiate a decent deal. The vote for Brexit was utter crap anyway it was a simple in or out it didn't bother asking about the common market place for example, it wasn't a vote on how the UK would look post-brexit. Other states have had multiple referendums to make decisions such as this.

I don't think many people voted to have the pound crash, hospital running out of meds, ripping up the good Friday agreement, economic collapse the list goes on.

If people believe so passionately in Brexit then what is the harm in a second referendum, if its such a good idea they should be able to make their case to the British people and get it through a second referendum.
edit on 10-12-2018 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 10:39 AM
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So the vote is delayed, possibly until January?. That'll give her enough time to buy the 100 votes she needs. Watch for many new Lords and ladies and palms creased. Democracy doesn't come free nor cheap in UK plc.



posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 10:40 AM
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a reply to: shooterbrody

It's always 3. There so will be riots...



posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 10:42 AM
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originally posted by: Soloprotocol
So the vote is delayed, possibly until January?. That'll give her enough time to buy the 100 votes she needs. Watch for many new Lords and ladies and palms creased. Democracy doesn't come free nor cheap in UK plc.


Nah she's screwed, honestly its just a matter of time before she's punted out.

I wouldn't be surprised if Labour try to push a no-confidence vote, really push her hard, just feels like something big is on the horizon she is a lame-duck pm just now. Something has to happen, don't know exactly what but its only a matter of time.



posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 10:43 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin




Kind of a stupid argument that.

Is it?
I was under the assumption the really big issues went to a public vote? Now that kind of vote is stupid?



Its quite simple, you give the people a vote, you acknowledge that in the last two years things have changed and a second vote is required because this government can't make up their mind or negotiate a decent deal.

Will this be required for every issue "this government cant make up their mind"? Or every issue "this government can't negotiate a decent deal"?
Who decided the govt cant make up their mind?
Who decides what is a decent deal?



If people believe so passionately in Brexit then what is the harm in a second referendum, if its such a good idea they should be able to make their case to the British people and get it through a second referendum.

Whats the harm in best of 3?
or best of 7?

Votes until your side wins? Is that the standard?



posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 10:46 AM
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a reply to: shooterbrody

Ireland had a second referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.

Second referendums are not some massive democratic crisis, they are how you fix these kind of problems.

Parliament is at grid-lock, May might want to delay the vote but it doesn't change a thing, it will never pass, it will leave us with only two options. Revoke article 50 through a peoples vote or to crash out with no-deal and face a crisis.

I can't see any good counter argument for a second referendum, honestly I don't know of one good reason behind it other than that we are running out of time fast to have one.



posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 10:46 AM
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a reply to: Zanti Misfit

Accept that the "Evil Ones" are the culprits that propose and enforce the laws these days.

Nothing will be undone, all "They" do is spin the bottle, thus establish the next scapegoat.

It's a neverending round of bull crap really with the only purpose of maintaining the status quo.

Democracy is as much of a prison as any other form of gooberment we have devised, the only difference being we cannot see the bars.



posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 10:47 AM
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originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: shooterbrody

It's always 3. There so will be riots...


No there won't.

Nobody will riot, at least not like they are in France right now.

If anything the country will breath a collective sigh of relief with a few member of the ERC trying to spin it.



posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 10:49 AM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: shooterbrody

Ireland had a second referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.

Second referendums are not some massive democratic crisis, they are how you fix these kind of problems.

Parliament is at grid-lock, May might want to delay the vote but it doesn't change a thing, it will never pass, it will leave us with only two options. Revoke article 50 through a peoples vote or to crash out with no-deal and face a crisis.

I can't see any good counter argument for a second referendum, honestly I don't know of one good reason behind it other than that we are running out of time fast to have one.

So when the government refuses to implement the will of the people the answer is to take a vote and hope the government likes the outcome?
Why vote in the first place?



posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 10:52 AM
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Since the Brexit vote was so close may i propose we just fight it out? A good old fashioned punch up.

Remainers against Bretiteers. Taps aff situation. face pummelling permitted.

Howz about St Paddy's day 2019? Then we can all go for a pint of the black stuff together afterwards. I'm in.



posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 10:55 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Blessed be you with your optimism. There will be a second referendum, it will go remain and a lot of people won't be willing to accept that. That's what I think could happen.
Or there will be no deal and chaos breaks out which will also lead to riots.
Or they will accept this deal and more people will demand May's resignation and there will be riots.
There will be riots, the question is really just when not if.



posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 10:56 AM
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originally posted by: shooterbrody

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: shooterbrody

Ireland had a second referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.

Second referendums are not some massive democratic crisis, they are how you fix these kind of problems.

Parliament is at grid-lock, May might want to delay the vote but it doesn't change a thing, it will never pass, it will leave us with only two options. Revoke article 50 through a peoples vote or to crash out with no-deal and face a crisis.

I can't see any good counter argument for a second referendum, honestly I don't know of one good reason behind it other than that we are running out of time fast to have one.

So when the government refuses to implement the will of the people the answer is to take a vote and hope the government likes the outcome?
Why vote in the first place?


No the issue is much more complex than that.

Parliament is at grid-lock in a way that is almost unprecedented in British politics. She has very few options under UK law and actually the only option is to have a peoples vote. A General election requires a 2 thirds vote and I doubt that the conservatives would want that because they know they would lose so thats out. May could quit but that doesn't change anything really just adds more instability. Ok so she could go back to the EU to renegotiate but they have said they're not really up for that regardless of what she said...... that leaves two options.

No-Deal, which is disaster for the UK, its not project fear, its reality, no deal is economic and political crisis on the scale we have not seen in this country for generations. Its massive interruption to food supplies, pound crashing, medication interruptions, chaos at transport hubs the list goes on we are just so deeply ingrained in the EU that to just pull the band-aid off would cause serious long term damage.....so in my view thats out.

Which leaves us one final option, the peoples vote, let the people decide, now Brexit reality is clear and lets remember that Vote Leave have faced several serious accusations around their actions back then. They one with a little over 1% of the vote. They won despite having al of Scotland, Ireland and London screaming that they want to remain in the EU.

So go back to the polls, call it a "confirmation vote". Let the people decide, when parliament can't, which, make no mistake is the situation right now then let the people decide.

Again I see no sound argument to the argue otherwise.



posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 10:56 AM
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a reply to: Peeple

Will the people of the uk allow the govt to NOT implement their vote?



posted on Dec, 10 2018 @ 10:58 AM
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a reply to: Peeple

meh am a little bit more optimistic I don't think there would be riots.



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