Stossel: Socialism Leads To Violence

We have seen how "democrats" (in the U.S.) are turning more and more far left-wing to the point that they are voting for socialists, or whatever they want to call themselves now.

But has history shown that "socialism is good" like so many people, including in the U.S., are claiming?

The following short video shows what socialism really does to nations, and to people. The video includes interviews of people from different Latin American countries, Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, who had to flee the rise of socialism.

One of those people interviewed is Ramon Muchacho, the former mayor of Chacao district, Caracas. In the interview he states how "the Minister of internal affairs" in the government of Chavez would constantly call him to use the police against protestors. He did not agree with this and disobeyed the orders, and for this he was threatened with jail and had to flee Venezuela.



What makes socialism preferable to capitalism when history has shown that in capitalism more people are able to succeed, meanwhile in socialism or under a socialist economy more people and in fact entire nations, except the leaders, become poorer and are oppressed?

As a Cuban who was interviewed in the video states:

...
Michel Ibarra, who escaped Cuba, says: "Socialism is the perfect excuse for someone who wants to rule an authoritarian regime."
...

www.youtube.com...

Socialism is communism which is murderous

a reply to: GBP/JPY

Socialism does lead to communism more often than not. As Karl Max stated, socialism is a stage to turn a capitalist nation into the final goal of communism.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Socialism is a white washed form of arrogance, but it's also an ideology, and most people who believe in socialism are ideologues, so it's unlikely that this video will have any effect on them. The best bet is that fresh undecided individuals have an opportunity to learn about the true evil nature of socialism.

Although you are 100% correct, socialism leads to violence, This argument is moot.

It’s the low iq, and ONLY the low iq who are calling for socialism to be given another try.
Every single one of them are calling for this fascist, oppressive system of governance while enjoying the fruits of capitalism.
They do not know what they’re calling for, all they know is what their low-iq peers are echoing back to them: ‘Western Civilisation is bad’.

You’ll notice that it’s these people who are openly violent and fascist as well. “Think how we think or we’ll attack you”, the very definition of fascism.

But they’re the morally-high ‘peaceful’ ones.

Yeah, right.

It’s not going to happen. Not enough thickos to make it happen.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

The Democrats turning more and more far left, almost as socialists. The Republicans turning more and more far-right, almost as fascists.

Which one is the action and which one the reaction?

Does it matter?

a reply to: Breakthestreak

I don't think IQ has much to do with it. There are plenty of scientists and geniuses who subscribe to some really stupid political ideas.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Breakthestreak

I don't think IQ has much to do with it. There are plenty of scientists and geniuses who subscribe to some really stupid political ideas.

Usually that comes from their experiences working within an academic environment or in whatever field they work in.
They will always believe that academic research is underfunded. Any biologist would see preserving the lesser spotted mud toad as more important than the expansion of the tourism industry through construction of new marinas.

For science deparrtments, trying to get bits of hardware to work together with applications. Because applications were closed source and licensed, it was impossible to adapt them to a new bit of kit, since the drivers/software interface didn't exist. That open source and standards becomes the ideal.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

What makes socialism preferable to capitalism when history has shown that in capitalism more people are able to succeed, meanwhile in socialism or under a socialist economy more people and in fact entire nations, except the leaders, become poorer and are oppressed?

Yes, free market capitalism is the only appropriate economic system for a free people.... Which the USA is supposed to be and is supposed to have, but our political critters on both sides have sold us out.

The operable word is "free". And it's the lack of freedom and personal autonomy which is the problem. Call it whatever one will -- socialism, fascism, communism, whatever -- but when some folks are forcing their will on others, there is no peace.... And no prosperity.

We have totally and completely screwed up our free market economy -- both sides are guilty of this -- and we regularly try to force our will on others in a plethora of ways -- again, both sides are guilty of this.

I honestly don't see anyone trying to fix what's really broken. It's just a power struggle at this point among the elites, with the peasants taking sides. Folks are choosing their own poison.

Someone should tell China how bad Communism is, I'm sure they'll be fascinated!
Every political system, past present and future has one huge flaw....
Human nature, and as much as I live in hope that we will all wake up and the scales will fall from our eyes I'm pretty sure that fantasy exists only in works of fiction.
Sadly the fact is that with political opportunists in charge, if greed and corruption doesn't corrode society, hyperbole and fear will.
It seems the corporate propagandists have been successful in their takedown of the idea that the workers can also be the owners of the means of production, companies can only be trusted in the hands of men with proven capitalist principles.
Create a simple, hint of truth narrative... "All socialists are baby killing, freedom hating, death loving subhumans with smelly feet".
Then use any opportunity presented to randomly insert narrative, regardless of context or relevance.
The fact is this revisionist fantasy has nothing to do with real, actually read and understood history or current reality, if enough people are beholden by the subversion the truth will be buried under tonnes of misdirects(its the leftists, they want to give your money to sick people!/praise Jesus for he blesseth the rich!) and anyone left that attempts to defend that nasty, freedom hating(remember repetition works) abomination can expect to be told just how mistaken they are, everyone knows that community co-operatives and collective ownership only work by taking money from the pockets of those those need and deserve it most, I.e billionaires!(swoon!).
(Disclaimer. The above is satire and is not meant to be taken seriously. I believe all the same things you guys do. Everyone here knows that both socialism and communism âre térrible and that only capitalism provides the means to endlessly consume unneeded crap using usury and a compliant media conglomerate. Because memes are awesome the author agrees entirely with whatever opinion is currently popular(remember the more words they use the more they hate you!).

+We're all friends here right? Lol, at the end of the day political beliefs are only a fraction of what makes us who we are as people.
We are more alike than not un the tgings that matter and I've read heaps of great, non political posts by people whos politics and political comments I completely disagree with.
Generally I stay well away from these discussions but like to throw a spanner in on occasion.
Peace!

originally posted by: Osirisvset
Someone should tell China how bad Communism is, I'm sure they'll be fascinated!

They can't. China censors and persecutes political dissidents.

originally posted by: Mahogany
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

The Democrats turning more and more far left, almost as socialists. The Republicans turning more and more far-right, almost as fascists.

Which one is the action and which one the reaction?

Does it matter?

Fascists, the original ones, were socialists. Their party wasn't called "National Socialist" just for show. The nazis implemented left-wing/socialist policies in Germany including redistribution of wealth, the "communalization of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small tradespeople", that "all unearned income be abolished", etc.

If you read the 25 points of Hitler's nazi party you can find all of the above and more.
www.historyplace.com...

Mussolini was also a lifelong socialist who like Hitler invented a new branch of socialism know as "national socialism/fascism".

I have pointed out the fact how Gandhi himself was a "national socialist" and in fact there is a branch of national socialism that has his name. Gandhian socialism.

Gandhian socialism
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Gandhian socialism is the branch of socialism based on the nationalist interpretation of the theories of Mahatma Gandhi. Gandhian socialism generally centres on Hind Swaraj or Indian Home Rule authored by Gandhi.
...

en.wikipedia.org...

Like Hitler, Gandhi fought only for Indians to live in their nation and to expel all foreigners who were not indigenous people of India, mainly the British.

a reply to: Osirisvset

"corporate propagandists"?... LOL... i was born in Cuba, my family was poor in Cuba. When we were able to leave for Spain, thanks to our family there, we were still poor in Spain as well as for a long time in the U.S. When finally arrived in the U.S., after almost 10 years later, our application was granted to immigrate LEGALLY to the U.S. For a long time even in the U.S. we were poor. To the point that I slept in a mattress on the floor, and we could only afford to have our wall AC only for a few hours when we went to sleep.

I lived YOUR fantasy of "the people owning the means of production" which is false... In socialism the STATE owns and controls the means of production, just like in communism.

a reply to: Osirisvset

This false claim by people like you that "corporate propagandists are attacking socialism" is simply false... Just like those people interviewed in the video I lived YOUR fantasy, which in reality is a nightmare...

Some retard left-wingers have even tried to claim in the past in this forum that "you must be a CIA spook"... lol The CIA spouts the same claims that the Cuban dictatorship claims because it has been turned into yet another "left-wing tool." Which lately has been trying to go after the duly elected POTUS.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Socialism leads to this


She will destroy the Democratic party FOREVER.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest

originally posted by: Osirisvset
Someone should tell China how bad Communism is, I'm sure they'll be fascinated!

They can't. China censors and persecutes political dissidents.

Occasionally they "disappear forever" as well. But lets just act like that doesn't happen.

a reply to: Breakthestreak

I know a lot of people with extremely high IQs who vote Democrat. In fact, research actually shows that the higher the education you have, the more likely you are to vote Democrat.

I went to a liberal arts school in a conservative state. There were lots of high IQ liberals. Smarter than many of us on here, I'd be willing to wager.

Honestly I used to be a leftist or socialist until very recently. They all still consider me so in my personal life lol.

But I’m also heavy research and historically inclined. Socialism doesn’t seem to work in its pure form.

However, there are extremes the other direction. Do you really think it works to have some complete deregulated environment without social net or services?

1) level one: are you guys really against socialized roads, police, military, fire, education, etc? We have that to a degree. Some maybe...

2) level 2: I think that pursuant to above there is an argument for universal healthcare.


a reply to: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
...
However, there are extremes the other direction. Do you really think it works to have some complete deregulated environment without social net or services?

1) level one: are you guys really against socialized roads, police, military, fire, education, etc? We have that to a degree. Some maybe...

2) level 2: I think that pursuant to above there is an argument for universal healthcare.


a reply to: ElectricUniverse

What makes "roads socialist"?...

What makes the "military socialist"?...

What makes the "fire department socialist"?...

If the above was true then "all forms of government are socialist." Which sorry to say is false.

This is similar to claiming that being in a group of people makes you socialist...

This is like claiming that breathing air is socialist, after all it is free and everyone needs it and uses it right?...

I am sorry but this argument is simply wrong.

Taxes in and of themselves are not socialist. However, "progressive taxes" are socialist because "progressive taxes" aim to increase the percentage of taxes if a person earns more than others, which is a socialist belief. These sort of "progressive taxes" are part of the reason why so many small businesses fail. Notice I wrote "is part of what makes them fail." I didn't write "they are the only reason why small businesses fail."

originally posted by: darkbake
a reply to: Breakthestreak

I know a lot of people with extremely high IQs who vote Democrat. In fact, research actually shows that the higher the education you have, the more likely you are to vote Democrat.

I went to a liberal arts school in a conservative state. There were lots of high IQ liberals. Smarter than many of us on here, I'd be willing to wager.

Really? As a matter of fact "most people who are/vote democrat" have degrees such as in "liberal arts." Meanwhile most conservatives, or those who vote conservative have degrees such as in engineering, math, etc.

After all, isn't it true that conservatives are more logical meanwhile democrats/liberals tend to go along with their emotions? This is not to say that conservatives have no emotions. However, when conservatives make an argument our arguments tend to weight in the cost, and the effects of policies.

Heck, look at today's democrat leaders. How many of them are making arguments like Warren claiming that "people will die because of Donald Trump's tax cuts." Or "People, mostly women, will die if Kavanaugh is confirmed?" Or what about that "ahem-bright-ahem" Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who like so many democrats is now claiming that if we don't implement the policies she has in mind, socialist policies to combat climate change, that "people will die...

This argument that "democrats are smarter" is simply untrue.

BTW, I am not saying that there are no conservatives who have degrees in "Liberal arts," because there are. Just like there are democrats/liberals with degrees in engineering, math, etc.