It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Poll: Where are we all on lethal force to prevent anyone from stepping foot in the USA?

page: 2
5
<< 1    3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 27 2018 @ 03:55 PM
link   
here is a thought, what if climate change is the reason fleeing, like starvation and drought, volcano or wildfire... the countries that are to blame the most for climate change could be forced to accept them or pay for their new refugee camp and food expenses, etc,. is okay with me.

Though were it is directly shown that they are fleeing as a result of a crisis that was a result of US intervention...for sure tend to lean the way, that the US needs to pay to fix it....shooting any of them, who were not a threat and unarmed,...would be cold blooded murder.




posted on Nov, 27 2018 @ 03:58 PM
link   
If they are acts of violence and hostility to get into the US, then I'm at 'Yea' on deadly force. Defend the nation's borders at whatever cost because we cannot afford the alternative. Treat them the same as we would any invading force because that is what they are.



posted on Nov, 27 2018 @ 04:01 PM
link   
If these immigrants were illegally attempting to break into your home what would your appropriate response be?

Let them in?

Offer them food, shelter, healthcare, education, access to your transportation all at your expense?

How is the above any different except for scale to what is happening at the border now?

There are hundreds of criminals among them, you don't know these people, but would you let them in?



posted on Nov, 27 2018 @ 04:04 PM
link   

originally posted by: dojozen
Not saying granting everyone that applies for refugee status asylum...or anyone for that matter, just that they should be allowed to present their case and especially if the reason they are fleeing is a result of US intervention and/or regime change.


You seem to have failed to do your homework here. They all have the undisputed right to apply for asylum and can right now providing they use the legal means already in place. Nobody is stopping them from applying.

It's a bit like when someone knocks on the door of your house. You look at them through the peephole and if you know them, let them in. If not you ask questions before letting them in. If they don't want to answer and kick your door in, you protect your home.

I don't think anyone is saying anything about shooting anyone other than for self-defense or defense of others, or would you have the Border Patrol not protect themselves and others? I think you are being way to hyperbolic here.

You do your argument no favors by pretending anyone is talking about killing them.

Where did you get the idea they can't apply for asylum now? You may want to question your sources since they do now and have had all along the right to apply. It would be a lie to say otherwise. We let many people in every year via the legal means.

Do you really mean you want open borders with no restrictions? If so why not argue that instead of using the theatrics based on falsehoods?



posted on Nov, 27 2018 @ 04:09 PM
link   
a reply to: dojozen

Nay.

We already have laws in place to handle asylum cases and immigration (though they could be vastly improved upon).



posted on Nov, 27 2018 @ 04:11 PM
link   
a reply to: six67seven


Think the US has been intervening in all of Latin America, so none of them are really safe havens of consideration, especially neighboring ones, where no doubt the US has been backing dictators and nefarious covert and overt ops for decades.

History of US intervention in Honduras





Fruit corporations from the US turned Honduras, an impoverished tropical backwater, into a huge banana plantation at the start of the 20th century. They dominated its economy and politics, making it the original "banana republic".

The US intervened in numerous military coups to protect its commercial interests, embedding a conservative, Americanised elite. Contra guerrillas backed by President Ronald Reagan used Honduras as a base to attack Nicaragua's Sandinista government in the 1980s.

The current US president, Barack Obama, showed a desire to end the "gringo bully" image by condemning the June coup which ousted the leftist leader, Manuel Zelaya. But the White House backtracked when congressional Republicans supported the de facto government as a bulwark against Venezuela's Hugo Chávez.



www.theguardian.com...
The superpower was behind the rise of the original banana republic – and the fall of its latest president



El Salvador

1932: A peasant rebellion, led by Communist leader Farabundo Martí, challenges the authority of the government. 10,000 to 40,000 communist rebels, many indigenous, are systematically murdered by the regime of military leader Maximiliano Hernández Martínez, the nation’s acting president. The United States and Great Britain, having bankrolled the nation’s economy and owning the majority of its export-oriented coffee plantations and railways, send naval support to quell the rebellion.

1944: Martínez is ousted by a bloodless popular revolution led by students. Within months, his party is reinstalled by a reactionary coup led by his former chief of police, Osmín Aguirre y Salinas, whose regime is legitimized by immediate recognition from the United States.

1960: A military-civilian junta promises free elections. President Eisenhower withholds recognition, fearing a leftist turn. The promise of democracy is broken when a right-wing countercoup seizes power months later. Dr. Fabio Castillo, a former president of the national university, would tell Congress that this coup was openly facilitated by the United States and that the U.S. had opposed the holding of free elections.

1980–1992: A civil war rages between the military-led government and the leftist Farabundo Martí National Liberation Front (FMLN). The Reagan administration, under its Cold War containment policy, offers significant military assistance to the authoritarian government, essentially running the war by 1983. The U.S. military trains key components of the Salvadoran forces, including the Atlacatl Battalion, the “pride of the United States military team in San Salvador.” The Atlacatl Battalion would go on to commit a civilian massacre in the village of El Mozote in 1981, killing at least 733 and as many as 1,000 unarmed civilians, including women and children. An estimated 80,000 are killed during the war, with the U.N. estimating that 85 percent of civilian deaths were committed by the Salvadoran military and death squads.

1984: Despite the raging civil war funded by the Reagan administration, a mere three percent of Salvadoran and Guatemalan asylum cases in the U.S. are approved, as Reagan officials deny allegations of human rights violations in El Salvador and Guatemala and designate asylum seekers as “economic migrants.” A religious sanctuary movement in the United States defies the government by publicly sponsoring and sheltering asylum seekers. Meanwhile, the U.S. funnels $1.4 million to its favored political parties in El Salvador’s 1984 election.

1990: Congress passes legislation designating Salvadorans for Temporary Protected Status. In 2018, President Trump would end TPS status for the 200,000 Salvadorans living in the United States.

2006: El Salvador enters the Dominican Republic–Central America Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA-DR), a neoliberal export-economy model that gives global multinationals increased influence over domestic trade and regulatory protections. Thousands of unionists, farmers, and informal economy workers protest the free trade deal’s implementation.

2014: The U.S. threatens to withhold almost $300 million worth of Millennium Challenge Corporation (MCC) development aid unless El Salvador ends any preferences for locally sourced corn and bean seeds under its Family Agriculture Plan.

2015: Under the tariff reduction model of CAFTA-DR, all U.S. industrial and commercial goods enter El Salvador duty free, creating impossible conditions for domestic industry to compete. As of 2016, the country had a negative trade balance of $4.18 billion.


medium.com...
edit on 27-11-2018 by dojozen because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-11-2018 by dojozen because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2018 @ 04:14 PM
link   
a reply to: dojozen

I take no responsibility for the actions of Clinton and Obama. I didn't vote for them.

I'm in favor of extraditing them to Honduras so the people there can get justice.



posted on Nov, 27 2018 @ 04:17 PM
link   
Where do I stand?

Lethal force is the very last resort...if it's possible to be after a last resort, it should be there.

That being said? If the Border Patrol officers, or the military, are endangered by the actions of these people.

There are a plenitude of less than lethal ways to prevent folks from crossing where they shouldn't. Some of 'em are, as I understand it, damned uncomfortable.

So...

It's the very last resort.



posted on Nov, 27 2018 @ 04:18 PM
link   
a reply to: watchitburn

that might be a fair deal for their part and involvement,...though not the rest of the others...we may need to add some refugee tax to start footing the bill for all the damages done.



posted on Nov, 27 2018 @ 04:19 PM
link   
Nay. Jesus would be foaming at the mouth by government actions resulting in people's death. It's cruel and unusual punishment to have the death penalty for people who are just looking for a better life.

The refugees probably exists because of US military adventurism anyway. Selling arms to thugs, criminals, and organized crime has consequences.



posted on Nov, 27 2018 @ 04:21 PM
link   
a reply to: dojozen

If the real American history were ever told:

"Probably the best documentary ever made about American foreign policy".



posted on Nov, 27 2018 @ 04:30 PM
link   
en.wikipedia.org...







1912–1933: Nicaragua
Nicaragua in its region.svg

The U.S. government invaded Nicaragua in 1912 after intermittent US military landings and naval bombardments in the previous decades. The U.S. was providing political support to conservative-led forces who were rebelling against President José Santos Zelaya, a liberal. U.S. motives included disagreement with the proposed Nicaragua Canal, since the U.S. controlled the Panama Canal Zone, which included the Panama Canal, and President Zelaya's attempts to regulate access by foreigners to Nicaraguan natural resources. On November 17, 1909, two Americans were executed by order of Zelaya after the two men confessed to having laid a mine in the San Juan River with the intention of blowing up the Diamante. The U.S. justified the intervention by claiming to protect American lives and property. Zelaya resigned later that year. The U
1941: Panama

The United States government used its contacts in the Panama National Guard, which the U.S. had earlier trained, to orchestrate a coup against the government of Panama in October 1941. The U.S. had requested that the government of Panama allow it to build over 130 new military installations inside and outside of the Panama Canal Zone, and the government of Panama refused this request at the price suggested by the U.S.[22] President Arnulfo Arias fled the country and Ricardo Adolfo de la Guardia Arango, the leader of the coup and a friend of the US government, became president.[23]


1954: Guatemala

In a CIA operation code named Operation PBSUCCESS, the U.S. government executed a coup that was successful in overthrowing the democratically-elected government of President Jacobo Árbenz and installed Carlos Castillo Armas, the first of a line of brutal right-wing dictators, in its place.[60][61][62] The perceived success of the operation made it a model for future CIA operations because the CIA lied to the president of the United States when briefing him regarding the number of casualties.[63]



1971: Bolivia

The U.S. government supported the 1971 coup led by General Hugo Banzer that toppled President Juan José Torres of Bolivia.[137][138] Torres had displeased Washington by convening an "Asamblea del Pueblo" (People's Assembly or Popular Assembly), in which representatives of specific proletarian sectors of society were represented (miners, unionized teachers, students, peasants), and more generally by leading the country in what was perceived as a left wing direction. Banzer hatched a bloody military uprising starting on August 18, 1971 that succeeded in taking the reigns of power by August 22, 1971. After Banzer took power, the U.S. provided extensive military and other aid to the Banzer dictatorship as Banzer cracked down on freedom of speech and dissent, tortured thousands, "disappeared" and murdered hundreds, and closed labor unions and the universities.[139][140] Torres, who had fled Bolivia, was kidnapped and assassinated in 1976 as part of Operation Condor, the US-supported campaign of political repression and state terrorism by South American right-wing dictators.[141][142][143]

1973: Chile
The democratically elected President Salvador Allende was overthrown by the Chilean armed forces and national police. This followed an extended period of social and political unrest between the right dominated Congress of Chile and Allende, as well as economic warfare waged by the U.S. government.[150] As a prelude to the coup, the chief of staff of the Chilean army, René Schneider, a general dedicated to preserving the constitutional order, was assassinated in 1970 during a botched kidnapping attempt backed by the CIA.[151][152] The regime of Augusto Pinochet that came to power with the coup is notable for having, by conservative estimates, disappeared some 3200 political dissidents, imprisoned 30,000 (many of whom were tortured), and forced some 200,000 Chileans into exile.[153][154][155] The CIA, through Project FUBELT (also known as Track II), worked secretly to engineer the conditions for the coup. The U.S. initially denied any involvement however many relevant documents have been declassified in the decades since.[156]


1980–1992: El Salvador

The government of El Salvador fought a bloody civil war against the Farabundo Martí National Liberation Front (FMLN), an umbrella organization of leftist political opposition groups, and against leaders of agricultural cooperatives, labor leaders and others who advocated for land reform and better conditions for "campesinos" (tenant farmers and other agrarian laborers) that supported the FMLN. The Salvadoran army organized military death squads to terrorize the rural civil population to cease its support for the FMLN.[175] Government forces killed more than 75,000 civilians during the war 1980–1992.[176][177][178][179][180][181] The U.S. government provided military training and weapons for the Salvadoran military. The Atlacatl Battalion, a counter-insurgency battalion, was organized in 1980 at the US Army School of the Americas and had a leading role in the "scorched earth" military policy against the FLMN and the rural villages that supported it. Atlacatl soldiers were equipped and directed by U.S. military advisers operating in El Salvador.[182][183][184] The Atlacatl battalion also participated in the El Mozote massacre in December 1981.[185] By May 1983, US officers took over positions in the top levels of the Salvadoran military, were making critical decisions and running the war.[186][187][188][189] A US Congressional fact finding commission found that the Salvadoran military's "drying up the ocean" policy of repression entailed eliminating "entire villages from the map, to isolate the guerrillas, and deny them any rural base off which they can feed."[190] The "drying up the ocean" or "scorched earth" strategy was based on tactics similar to those being employed by the junta's counter-insurgency in neighboring Guatemala and were primarily derived and adapted from U.S. strategy during the Vietnam War and taught by American military advisors.[191][192]
1982–1989: Nicaragua
Nicaragua in its region.svg

The U.S. government attempted to topple the government of Nicaragua by secretly arming, training and funding the Contras, a millitant group based in Honduras that was created to sabotage Nicaragua and to destabilize the Nicaraguan government.[193][194][195][196] As part of the training, the CIA distributed a detailed "terror manual" entitled "Psychological Operations in Guerrilla War," which instructed the Contras, among other things, on how to blow up public buildings, to assassinate judges, to create martyrs, and to blackmail ordinary citizens.[197] In addition to orchestrating the Contras, the U.S. government also blew up bridges and mined Corinto harbor, causing the sinking of several civilian Nicaraguan and foreign ships and many civilian deaths.[198][199][200][201] After the Boland Amendment made it illegal for the U.S. government to provide funding for Contra activities, the administration of President Reagan secretly sold arms to the Iranian government to fund a secret U.S. government apparatus that continued illegally to fund the Contras, in what became known as the Iran-Contra affair.[202] The U.S. continued to arm and train the Contras even after the Sandanista government of Nicaragua won the elections of 1984.[203][204]



posted on Nov, 27 2018 @ 04:33 PM
link   
a reply to: dfnj2015

Thanks, the Banana Republic and what all was carried out for united fruit company and cronies, is a good prerequisite for those who only got history in school.

edit on 27-11-2018 by dojozen because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2018 @ 04:33 PM
link   
calm down cowboy we don't need to just go off shooting people without a trial please go move to North Korea



posted on Nov, 27 2018 @ 04:38 PM
link   
We should line the border with abortionists and rename the illegal aliens as "fetus's"


Or line the border with leftists and rename the illegals as "Conservatives".


Either way, it'll be a blood bath.



posted on Nov, 27 2018 @ 04:46 PM
link   
a reply to: dojozen


I say drop sharks with frickin' lasers on them from orbit. Particularly the children.



posted on Nov, 27 2018 @ 04:46 PM
link   
Not needed. Snatch 'em up, throw them on a bus, send 'em back with instructions on how to be a citizen the right way.

Done and done.

Doctors need to inspect each one for 3rd world diseases before consideration at a minimum.

Any party found flooding a country for votes, or any reason needs treason charges.

Beyond that, no one else in until taxes and gibs are ended.

The people benefiting from this invasion need to pay for their supoort, not me.



posted on Nov, 27 2018 @ 04:46 PM
link   

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Either way, it'll be a blood bath.


What good is a bath without blood?



posted on Nov, 27 2018 @ 04:48 PM
link   
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Isn't that how baths generally work?

What else would you use? Tears maybe...

edit on 27-11-2018 by watchitburn because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2018 @ 04:48 PM
link   
a reply to: ausername

But the msm is launching smoke bombs at them and filming it.

Do you have no heart?




top topics



 
5
<< 1    3  4 >>

log in

join