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people storming america boarders vs preacher trying to get on an island

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posted on Nov, 27 2018 @ 07:48 PM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Raggedyman

What if we're moving too fast? Should we civilize the whole world in the name of ethics?

Keep in mind estimates put native American deaths at 75% to disease alone.

We could easily wipe them out just by shaking hands. What's the point?

Let them live, it doesn't effect anyone for a tribe to live in the old ways on an isolated island. Maybe one day we can fly drones undetected and get samples to solve something.


And your opinion is valid, a little naive but valid


What's naive about saying it's 150-200 Natives on an island. We could make contact, most likely they're all dead if we do.

Europeans landing on the east coast set the stage to wipe out 75% of 300,000~ native Americans in what is now the US.

They would all die, and it would wipe out unique DNA that could solve problems for humanity.




posted on Nov, 28 2018 @ 03:40 AM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker

Europeans were always going to land, if not Europeans then Chinese or Japanese or someone same as the rest of America. It was always going to happen

That island will be exploited, it's human nature

I am not suggesting Christians are altruistic but when it comes to providing education and medical, they do a better job than most



posted on Nov, 28 2018 @ 04:32 AM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: SocratesJohnson

Border, not Boarder. A boarder is a renter who is staying in someone's home.
We defend our border to ensure that the US doesn't suddenly get overrun with foreign, illegal boarders.



I have a small house with a few metres all around it, fenced high at the back

and bordered at the front, bought and paid for.


I see this situation of country/states borders being infringed occurring all over

the planet, and wonder in a smaller context how long before it will be acceptable

for strangers to kick at my fences and doors to make an uninvited illegal entry for

themselves to enjoy my personal space ?



posted on Nov, 28 2018 @ 04:46 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

what if they dont want help? do we force " help" or "salvation" onto people that dont want it.



posted on Nov, 28 2018 @ 05:08 AM
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originally posted by: choos
a reply to: Raggedyman

what if they dont want help? do we force " help" or "salvation" onto people that dont want it.


You chose the word salvation not me

But beyond your baited question, if a tribe is killing people it's an indication that they don't value life

Hell, the US bombed countries into dust for simmilar, but what, don't care because there is no money in it or maybe because Christians don't have any value



posted on Nov, 28 2018 @ 05:12 AM
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a reply to: eletheia

So, guessing you don't leave the home, don't need assistance, medical, help from the outside world

Sounds like you should name your home South Korea

Seriously, your home is not the Stone Age or is it, computers, electricity, medical, food, health care.

I could only imagine you have cats



posted on Nov, 28 2018 @ 07:46 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman




In 1880, in an effort to establish contact with the Sentinelese, British naval officer Maurice Vidal Portman, who was serving as a colonial administrator to the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, led an armed group of Europeans to North Sentinel Island. Upon the group's arrival, the islanders fled into the treeline. After several days ashore, during which they found abandoned villages and paths, Portman's men captured six individuals, an elderly man and woman and four children.[27]

The man and woman died shortly after or before their arrival in Port Blair, likely from disease, and so Portman attempted to befriend the surviving children by giving them gifts before returning them to North Sentinel Island, in hopes that the children would help village elders realise the British were friendly. The attempt was unsuccessful, likely due to the aggressiveness of Portman's visit and the fact that his efforts resulted in the deaths of two Sentinelese people.[8][25] Additionally, due to differences in culture, the children might not have recognised the gifts as such

en.wikipedia.org...


maybe they just don't want their families and friends kidnapped again?
or maybe you should read about another tribe that lives on a neighboring island, the Jarawas. Read about the "human safaris", the disease, the exploitation of that tribe. and how they are having western civilization eating up more and more of their island, turning it into a tourist trap where the biggest draw is the hope of spotting some of these "primitive people".




What do your friends, family and elders think of outsiders like us?
We were scared when we first saw people. When Sahabs (Indians) used to come, I was scared. We were very young. They used to scare us with guns, which is why we used to attack. We were never angry when we attacked; we were just scared and used to think, 'Why are these people coming here?' They used to kill deer and set traps.

www.vice.com...


Pouching on thier land, throwing food at them like they are animals, forcing them to dance for your cameras...
just who is not valuing who's lives here??? Heck even insisting that you go and preach about your god to them, all the while risking spreading a disease they have no immunity to, is degrading their lives by making the assumption that their is something wrong with the way they are living them currently!!!

It is quite possible that the Sentinelese aren't as hostile to the neighboring island's natives as they are to the Indians and may have contact with them. Considering the history they have had with these strange people, if they are in contact with the jarawa tribe and know how their great experiment is going with the western world...
I can see why they would be rather insistent on being left alone, how they might see is as a matter of self preservation.
Besides if there is contact with the sentinelese, it should be the anthropologists that have first crack at it, not missionaries who primary objective is to change the core essence of who they are by insisting that they adopt a different god. which, by the way, the jarawas have lived all this time without the need for a god!!! Something which I kind of think might be a tad bit unusual and rare and would peak the interests of many anthropologists.



posted on Nov, 28 2018 @ 08:05 AM
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a reply to: Middleoftheroad

first, it's the danged rhetoric that is making it sound racist more then anything else. instead of portraying the refugees as people fleeing from areas that in such chaos and violence that they believe it is safer to travel across such a vast distance, what is trump and the right's media doing? they're bad humbres, rapists, gang members, heck, they are infected with diseases that don't even exist, like small pox!!! Demonizing them. sounds kind of racist to me, sorry, just my opinion.

and no, I wasn't talking about regime change, and I agree about what you said about war just displacing the masses and causing such migrations. but well, we have done plenty of that also, and europe is doing it's best to cope with the problems our wars have caused, are causing in that area of the world.
what I meant was doing more to try to stabilize that area if at all possible. heck, quit providing a market for the drug lords... that is something every drug user in this country could be doing!!! helping farmers find crops that are lucrative to grow instead of the drugs. assisting the gov'ts there to get things under control...
heck I don't know, but keeping the refugees just outside our border isn't gonna help much.
and well, if you don't like how the law is written, change the danged laws and realize, that laws need compromise to be written and passed. the my way or the highway bit just doesn't work when it comes to our gov't. the best laws are written when the two sides work together and usually have ideas that come from both sides.



posted on Nov, 28 2018 @ 08:22 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman



Lets just dont help anyone, good plan


They dont need our help, they have survived there for apparently 30,000 years. In the 13th Century, explorer Marco Polo described the island's residents as "a most violent and cruel generation" and indicated that they were cannibals, yet they are still there today, they must be doing something right to survive that long.

Why do you suggest they need OUR help?

Leave them alone, they dont want or need help.



posted on Nov, 28 2018 @ 09:00 AM
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a reply to: dawnstar

You just supported my whole argument
These people are not isolated, the will be integrated at some point

You know what a cargo cult is



posted on Nov, 28 2018 @ 09:01 AM
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a reply to: Moohide

So killing each other, eating each othe is fine
Do you think before replying



posted on Nov, 28 2018 @ 09:10 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

Yes i do think, but it seems you want to force yourself and your ways upon them, just like the missionary who was not invited to the island and paid with his life, which they did to protect themselves. They didnt eat the guy, they buried him, and anyone that goes to try to find the body is a fool and should suffer the same fate. The island is Out-of-Bounds with a 1km restriction zone around it for a reason.

Do you think you could succeed where many have failed over the centuries? Good luck with that, let us know here on ATS how you get on, we look forward to your success.



posted on Nov, 28 2018 @ 10:16 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman
sorry don't really see where I proved your point.
the civilized world may have turned the jarawa tribe something similar to what you refer to a cargo cult. but the jarawa tribe is not the Sentinelese. they live on different islands and have different languages, although they both seem to arrive to that area around the same time. They might share some of the same oral histories and remember a time when they were one people and therefore might be more inclined not to see them as outsider. also, the jarawa were also pretty isolated till recently. that doesn't mean that they might not have had a history of trade between themselves over the centuries and shared knowledge and experiences of those strange men that were beginning to come to their islands. they might know how the civilized world arriving to the island of the jarawa has effected the tribe, how it's eating away their open lands, affecting their hunting, ect and it's just reinforcing their idea that they don't want anything to do with it!!!
just like stories from the eastern tribes in the US about the white man with their forked tongues may have made the western tribes more hostile against the invasion of the white man into their lands.
you claim that because they kill the strange outsiders, they must not value life as much as we do. but, well, we have large areas of land fenced off with "Trespassers will be shot" signs every few yards and "stand your ground" laws and seem to have no problem sending our bombers halfway around the world to bomb and irradiate someone else's villages, killing their men, women and children... to protect our "way of life".. I don't see any difference as far as how much, or how little we value life as you put it. the difference is that our weapons are so much better, we could wipe the whole tribe out in an instance and take their island from them quite quickly and not suffer any casualties whatsoever. heck we've probably killed more people in just the latest iraqi war than the number of natives living on this island! all to protect the supremacy of our dollar!!! which we managed to just about destroy through our own greed and corruption anyways.. so, that's alot of men, women, and children killed for no gd dagned reason whatsoever!!
lol...

www.cnn.com...

www.nbcnews.com...

it seems that these primitive tribes fared much better than their civilized counterparts...
like.. gee.. god warned them... or maybe they have ears that can hears god's message better.
so, can't help but ask..
what do they need our gods for??



posted on Nov, 28 2018 @ 08:16 PM
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a reply to: Moohide

I live in australia, have a job and I want to force myself on them from here, doesnt that sound a bit stupid to you?

Moo, everybody will get exploited, your report indicates tourists are already exploiting these people.
One day they will kill the wrong person and someone is going to seek vengeance
That is life



posted on Nov, 28 2018 @ 08:17 PM
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originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Raggedyman

what do they need our gods for??


I am assuming comprehension not your strong suite

Medical, healthcare, education and protection

Didnt you say these people are already being exploited

What is it with ats and ignorance



posted on Nov, 28 2018 @ 09:56 PM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: choos
a reply to: Raggedyman

what if they dont want help? do we force " help" or "salvation" onto people that dont want it.


You chose the word salvation not me

But beyond your baited question, if a tribe is killing people it's an indication that they don't value life

Hell, the US bombed countries into dust for simmilar, but what, don't care because there is no money in it or maybe because Christians don't have any value


so its perfectly ok to do something that was done in the past?

but why do you want to force your help on people that do not want your help?



posted on Nov, 28 2018 @ 10:00 PM
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a reply to: Breakthestreak


How could any "intellectual" not spell "border(s)" correctly? The message kinda loses it's grip when the author cannot spell the topic correctly.. How do We know She didn't mean a 'boarder' who is late paying their rent?



posted on Nov, 28 2018 @ 11:24 PM
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a reply to: choos

What does that have to do with me saying every one needs salvation, just setting up strawmen to fight claiming I believe that

I cant explain my contempt towards the ignorance you show or your argument

Never said or have said I want to force my beliefs on anyone here, ever, that was your strawman

"Do something", what like provide protection, medical and education.
Thats bad isnt it protection, medical and education, I bet you dont like protection, medical and education in your life, do you live in a cave?

"Do something" what does that even mean

Force help, so no education, no medical no protection.
Seriously, engage your brain
Think before speaking

Eventually someone will bring a disease to these people and they will all die, but hey, hey dont need help
Contempt, look it up.



posted on Nov, 28 2018 @ 11:48 PM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

sure one day that might happen and they might want help then.. maybe it will be too late maybe it wont, but atleast it was their choice.

you are just trying to force your unwanted help onto them.

so i wonder when it is ok for you to decide when to "liberate" a country? when you think it is oppressed or when you think it needs liberating or when they ask for help?



posted on Nov, 29 2018 @ 12:13 AM
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originally posted by: choos
a reply to: Raggedyman

sure one day that might happen and they might want help then.. maybe it will be too late maybe it wont, but atleast it was their choice.

you are just trying to force your unwanted help onto them.

so i wonder when it is ok for you to decide when to "liberate" a country? when you think it is oppressed or when you think it needs liberating or when they ask for help?


Unwanted help?
Really?
You know history?

Didn't think so

Another strawman, "liberate a country" that's pure stupidity and an argument you have made up
when did I say liberate as opposed to provide medical education and health care

You are just boxing shadows and claiming how tough you are.



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