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Social Justice Demands the Unequal Treatment of Individuals

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posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 05:53 PM
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I ran across this article today and I found it very interesting in the way it approached the whole subject.

There is a lot to digest here and is very very thought provoking in my opinion, I think Hayek is on point here, and if you watch (read) his comments , and are objective at all, it should stir some thinking in the ol noggin.....




Social justice is one of those squishy terms that is not easy to define. One thing we know for certain: social justice is not the same thing as justice, an age-old idea that was the focus of such thinkers as Aristotle, Plato, Augustine of Hippo, Aquinas, and Hume. (After all, if social justice meant the same thing as justice, the word “social” would be superfluous.)

Many years ago, while speaking to William F. Buckley, Jr. on the idea of social justice, the Nobel Prize-winning economist F.A. Hayek observed the “meaningless conception” of the term.


This quote to me, should really be taken in its entirety.....




Hayek knew very well. During his interview with Buckley (video below), he explained to a young Jeff Greenfield (13:00) that social justice demands treating people unequally.
The classical demand is that the state ought to treat all people equally in spite of the fact that they are very unequal. You can’t deduce from this that because people are unequal you ought to treat them unequally in order to make them equal.

And that’s what social justice amounts to. It’s a demand that the state should treat people differently in order to place them in the same position. . . To make people equal a goal of governmental policy would force government to treat people very unequally indeed.



And as an example heres just once case that was provided to lend some context to the arguement




During the trial, a dean of the school admitted that Harvard uses different admission standards based on the race and gender of the prospective students. Asians must receive an SAT score of at least 1350—250 points higher than the threshold for Native American, black, and Hispanic high school students—to receive a recruitment letter.


I will link the video and the full article, I put this in the mudpit because I wanted people to be able to speak freely and debate this subject and the points that are brought up.

Keep in mind this was done many many years ago before this whole social justice revolution we see now. I find it hard to argue his points, and if we look at the actions that have been taken in just the last few years on many campuses, schools, and even local gov entities, its pretty clear he was almost prophetic in his assessment.

The video is 15 min long but, to those who strive for a balanced view, its very much worth the watch


Source

Its the mudpit, but I beg of you, lets try and be as civil as we can, and really dig in here and have a conversation about this whole thing, the direction its going, the consequences , and how you feel about it.....are you ok with it? Is it a detriment? What if at some point its turned back on you or the people you support?

Thanks ATS, much love
MBTM

edit on 11/25/2018 by ManBehindTheMask because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 05:58 PM
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Jonathan Haidt gets it and has a nifty little graphic to show how it works out too.



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 06:04 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I have listened to his stuff as well......for me it seems just about as clear as the nose on ones face.....

We are already starting to see the consequences, and even those who are very pro SJ have seen backlash against their own.....



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 06:07 PM
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"social" justice forces one to stop seeing the individual and, instead, replaces with membership in whatever social/racial/economic/sexual group seems appropriate at that given moment.

It's cheap justice. Second rate justice. No justice at all.

The funny thing, though, is that the logical end point of dividing humans in to their respective groups ends up right back at the individual.



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 06:11 PM
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originally posted by: TheOnlyAnswer
"social" justice forces one to stop seeing the individual and, instead, replaces with membership in whatever social/racial/economic/sexual group seems appropriate at that given moment.

It's cheap justice. Second rate justice. No justice at all.

The funny thing, though, is that the logical end point of dividing humans in to their respective groups ends up right back at the individual.


Sounds a lot like segregation doesnt it? Backwards we go?



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 06:14 PM
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originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: TheOnlyAnswer
"social" justice forces one to stop seeing the individual and, instead, replaces with membership in whatever social/racial/economic/sexual group seems appropriate at that given moment.

It's cheap justice. Second rate justice. No justice at all.

The funny thing, though, is that the logical end point of dividing humans in to their respective groups ends up right back at the individual.


Sounds a lot like segregation doesnt it? Backwards we go?


What do you suggest we do with the libtards?



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 06:16 PM
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a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

It should be self-evident to anyone who simply thinks about it for a little while. Not every individual in the group comes from the same circumstance. In order to believe that all black people have the same oppressed and impoverished condition, you really have to boil them all down to a two-dimensional stereotype.

In reality, there are some black people who are very, very wealthy and privileged. In order to make policies designed to advantage all blacks to level the playing field, you are doing a few things. You are advantaging some way more than you intended because they were already at or above the targeted level of improvement, and you are disadvantaging others in order to advantage your target group.

And what will happen because not all of that target group is the same in the same circumstances, is that some of them will be disadvantaged much much more than you ever intended because they may have been just as oppressed and disadvantaged as the poor blacks you sought to help, but because you knocked down their group, you just knee-capped even more than they already were by being in their bad circumstances to begin with.

EDIT

And this reasoning and reality applies out to any so-called victim group you care to think about. We are all individuals with differing experiences in our lives and differing circumstances. There is just no way to create equal outcome through for of law for that reason. You will help those who don't need it and hurt those you never intended to and equality will never, ever arrive.
edit on 25-11-2018 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 06:17 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: TheOnlyAnswer
"social" justice forces one to stop seeing the individual and, instead, replaces with membership in whatever social/racial/economic/sexual group seems appropriate at that given moment.

It's cheap justice. Second rate justice. No justice at all.

The funny thing, though, is that the logical end point of dividing humans in to their respective groups ends up right back at the individual.


Sounds a lot like segregation doesnt it? Backwards we go?


What do you suggest we do with the libtards?


Well we won't kill them off like that poster in the other thread was suggesting he would have absolutely no trouble doing with each and every conservative down the least little child.

I'd like to find a way to let them live as they wish without giving them the power to force me to go along.



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 06:19 PM
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a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Social justice is justified injustice.




posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 06:20 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: TheOnlyAnswer
"social" justice forces one to stop seeing the individual and, instead, replaces with membership in whatever social/racial/economic/sexual group seems appropriate at that given moment.

It's cheap justice. Second rate justice. No justice at all.

The funny thing, though, is that the logical end point of dividing humans in to their respective groups ends up right back at the individual.


Sounds a lot like segregation doesnt it? Backwards we go?


What do you suggest we do with the libtards?


Ummmm. . . .

Equal treatment under the law.



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 06:22 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: TheOnlyAnswer
"social" justice forces one to stop seeing the individual and, instead, replaces with membership in whatever social/racial/economic/sexual group seems appropriate at that given moment.

It's cheap justice. Second rate justice. No justice at all.

The funny thing, though, is that the logical end point of dividing humans in to their respective groups ends up right back at the individual.


Sounds a lot like segregation doesnt it? Backwards we go?


What do you suggest we do with the libtards?


Ummmm. . . .

Equal treatment under the law.


Some here on ATS are calling for a purge and stocking up on ammo... Sounds reasonable...
edit on 25-11-2018 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 06:30 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: TheOnlyAnswer
"social" justice forces one to stop seeing the individual and, instead, replaces with membership in whatever social/racial/economic/sexual group seems appropriate at that given moment.

It's cheap justice. Second rate justice. No justice at all.

The funny thing, though, is that the logical end point of dividing humans in to their respective groups ends up right back at the individual.


Sounds a lot like segregation doesnt it? Backwards we go?


What do you suggest we do with the libtards?



I don't know. Maybe we could send them to North Sentinel island so they can explain to the tribe why they should let people on their island.



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 06:30 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: TheOnlyAnswer
"social" justice forces one to stop seeing the individual and, instead, replaces with membership in whatever social/racial/economic/sexual group seems appropriate at that given moment.

It's cheap justice. Second rate justice. No justice at all.

The funny thing, though, is that the logical end point of dividing humans in to their respective groups ends up right back at the individual.


Sounds a lot like segregation doesnt it? Backwards we go?


What do you suggest we do with the libtards?


Libtards? I dont think anyone is a "Libtard"

What I do think we should do is to actually look at the direction that such things tend to go, and possible solutions.....

I think we need to stop self segregating, and start talking......I think we need to stop inventing things that separate us , and stop seeking SO HARD to see injustices where many times there arent any.

I think the more we SEEK to find issues , the more we often we find perceived injustices where there arent any......much like hypochondriacs will take on symptoms of illnesses they dont have.......

Not to say there arent problems, of COURSE there are........but I think there needs to be more conversations than brow beating and accusations.

I think there needs to be a lot less labeling from both sides........

I think there needs to be a lot less "im right and youre wrong" and a lot more "I dont agree with you but heres where we have common ground, how do we meet there"

Thats what I think........

Polarization is good for magnets and compasses.........not so good for societies



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 06:31 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: TheOnlyAnswer
"social" justice forces one to stop seeing the individual and, instead, replaces with membership in whatever social/racial/economic/sexual group seems appropriate at that given moment.

It's cheap justice. Second rate justice. No justice at all.

The funny thing, though, is that the logical end point of dividing humans in to their respective groups ends up right back at the individual.


Sounds a lot like segregation doesnt it? Backwards we go?


What do you suggest we do with the libtards?


Ummmm. . . .

Equal treatment under the law.


Some here on ATS are calling for a purge and stocking up on ammo... Sounds reasonable...


Are you advocating for that?



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 06:46 PM
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originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: TheOnlyAnswer
"social" justice forces one to stop seeing the individual and, instead, replaces with membership in whatever social/racial/economic/sexual group seems appropriate at that given moment.

It's cheap justice. Second rate justice. No justice at all.

The funny thing, though, is that the logical end point of dividing humans in to their respective groups ends up right back at the individual.


Sounds a lot like segregation doesnt it? Backwards we go?


What do you suggest we do with the libtards?


Ummmm. . . .

Equal treatment under the law.


Some here on ATS are calling for a purge and stocking up on ammo... Sounds reasonable...


Are you advocating for that?


Not me, I'm all for more dialog as well but these guys have other ideas.

newsone.com...



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 06:50 PM
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Social Justice as it is described in your OP is plain evil. While everyone deserves equal opportunity we cannot be in the business of guaranteeing equal outcomes regardless of where someone starts.

Free men are not equal and equal men are not free.


edit on 2018/11/25 by Metallicus because: Eta



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 06:53 PM
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I doubt too many social justice people could actually know what the Declaration if Independence actually is, much less know of anything writen whiten the document. But unknown to them, part is actually what they falsely believe.


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,


Not only is this statement about as far from the actual truth as it could possibly get taken out of context, it's meaning is strictly defined. Reading that statement in it's entirety,


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


But these types think they are equal in every way and deserve all things others strive to posses through their labors. In actuality, SJW's are, in my opinion, the spoiled underachievers that deserve little attention and should to be ignored for the most part. But truth is that the baby that screams the loudest usually gets the most teat.
edit on 25-11-2018 by CharlesT because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-11-2018 by CharlesT because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-11-2018 by CharlesT because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 06:56 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: TheOnlyAnswer
"social" justice forces one to stop seeing the individual and, instead, replaces with membership in whatever social/racial/economic/sexual group seems appropriate at that given moment.

It's cheap justice. Second rate justice. No justice at all.

The funny thing, though, is that the logical end point of dividing humans in to their respective groups ends up right back at the individual.


Sounds a lot like segregation doesnt it? Backwards we go?


What do you suggest we do with the libtards?





Have them Neutered . God knows the Planet Will Thank Us for that ....



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 06:56 PM
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a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

This is why we have some liberals saying free speech is a tool of oppression. When we all have freedom we are equal. They claim to end oppression some must have less freedom. They need to be less than equal.



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 07:00 PM
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If a person accepts that some races or cultures must receive special treatment to be socially equal, it seems to me that is definitive racism. It assumes they are inferior to begin with.

Success in life is directly related to motivation which is in no small part determined by how we view ourselves. Tell a person their whole lives they are inferior and need special treatment, it amounts to abuse.

Harvard policies are racist policies and there is no way to argue around that. Harvard is a racist institution who's elite pat themselves on the back for helping out the inferior races and cultures due to their own racist beliefs. The sad part is, they actually think they are helping people and are blissfully unaware they are part of the problem.

Sadly an elite is developing within races, who are racist against their own race or culture.



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