Russia Accused of Firing on Ukrainian Ship in Naval Standoff

a reply to: rickymouse

I am half Hungarian. I saw first hand what the Russian "puppet government" did to "my" people and I experienced the liberation. Hungary is still a country, it wasn't destroyed.
If one does not defy the oppressor one becomes the oppressor by default.
Thanks to the OP for this thread.

a reply to: WalkInSilence

Crimea is strategically important to Russia. They are not going to let that go. The people there voted to join Russia, there were lots of Russians living there and friends to those people. Keeping with the Ukraine was not beneficial to those Crimean people.

Joining the west was not favored by lots of Ukranians, they wanted to stay allies with the Russians. I do not automatically believe our propaganda spewed by the west, I like to research if it is true first.

Finland broke away from the Soviets too, my grandparents and great grandparents were there during that time. Jerked between Sweeden and Russia, they finally declared their independence. That was a different thing, Finland was not that strategic to Russia back then, neither was Hungary.

The deception and trickery used by the west to break away the Ukraine was not appropriate to me. A small amount of people who would benefit started that, the rest of their population was not that enthused with joining the west. Some group of people just seized control and we hear the propaganda that actually was created by the west. There is big money to be made in the Ukraine, the vast majority of which will not go to the people of that country. Big corporations want to rape their resources.

a reply to: rickymouse

Voting under gunpoint is not a free vote.

The problem isn't Russia, its Putin and political extremism in general. Russians aren't all bad people, I've partied with some of them before. If anything its the U.S. allowing big countries to run ramshackle all over and its no surprise that after Russia OPENLY ATTACKED Ukraine, NATO and the West have done nothing more than verbally reprimand the Kremlin. No further actions will be taken. Russia could actively annex the entire countries of Ukraine and Belarus and NATO wouldn't do anything. Not unless its a NATO country, and even then...

a reply to: IndyFront

You do realize that the days of America running another Boris Yeltsin in Russia are over right? Russian people will never accpet an Pro Washington Pro American puppet in their own country.

Russia could actively annex the entire countries of Ukraine and Belarus and NATO

But Ameirca's militarily occupation of Kosovo and telling Albanians what do agaisnt Serbs is completely ok?

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: rickymouse

Voting under gunpoint is not a free vote.

I could say the same thing about Kosovo ^

originally posted by: MindBodySpiritComplex
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Yeah, about the ramming of ships aka "accidents" and other incidents.


USS Donald Cook vs Sukhoi 24
USS McCain vs oil tanker
USS Fitzgerald vs container ship
USS Laboon vs scuba diver?
KNM Helge Ingstad vs oil tanker (Is it KNM or HNoMS?)

All of the above were equipped with the Aegis Combat System. With the exception of the norwegian frigate they also had Ballistic Missile Defense capabilities. Could be part of the same pattern. And those are only the incidents that became public. It might only be the tip of the iceberg. The USS Laboon incident is not very well known:

Mystery Persists Over Possible Incursion at Naval Station Norfolk

The Navy Is Still Baffled By The Mysterious Scuba Diver Reportedly Spotted At Naval Station Norfolk


This post will be debunked by "thread killers anonymous" in 3..., 2..., 1...

Not debunking, but after a read-through it seems they came to their own conclusion as to what it was with the last two words of the article:

waterborne drones.

So, now we just need a list of governments and militarys with access to said drones, and we'll narrow the possibilities down as to whodunit.

a reply to: WalkInSilence

"puppet government"

Just like every Eastern European Government is a puppet government to America and NATO always listening to NATO/America remember Libya?

The Hungarians had no problem accepting and rushing into the regime change bandwagon and in fact all those countries that are with NATO were in the regime change bandwagon. No refused or had second thoughts. And thus that makes you an NATO puppet.

originally posted by: AtlasHawk
But Ameirca's militarily occupation of Kosovo and telling Albanians what do agaisnt Serbs is completely ok?

Nope.
Just pointing out the hypocrisy of NATO.

What is America doing in Ukraine again? pretending to be fighting for Democracy and human rights again? Amercia is the one thats trying to stir up flares in the region by trying to provoke the Russians into responding, and judging from the videos of the accident.

It seems its the Ukrainian navy to be blamed here they are the ones trying to ram into the Russian navy ships going even as far by stopping in front of one those Russian ships.

What were the Ukrainians trying to achieve here by pulling this stunt? some kind of response? hoping that America jumps in?

originally posted by: AtlasHawk
What is America doing in Ukraine again? pretending to be fighting for Democracy and human rights again? Amercia is the one thats trying to stir up flares in the region by trying to provoke the Russians into responding, and judging from the videos of the accident.

It seems its the Ukrainian navy to be blamed here they are the ones trying to ram into the Russian navy ships going even as far by stopping in front of one those Russian ships.

Yeah, no good guys in this scenario, that's for sure.

What were the Ukrainians trying to achieve here by pulling this stunt? some kind of response? hoping that America jumps in?

All of the above.

originally posted by: IndyFront
The problem isn't Russia, ..... If anything its the U.S. allowing big countries to run ramshackle all over

....erm.......I think you'll find the US has a far longer list of countries that it has run ramshakle over since WWII than Russia.......I could be wrong......nope....don't think so....

originally posted by: angelchemuel

originally posted by: IndyFront
The problem isn't Russia, ..... If anything its the U.S. allowing big countries to run ramshackle all over

....erm.......I think you'll find the US has a far longer list of countries that it has run ramshakle over since WWII than Russia.......I could be wrong......nope....don't think so....

Yep, and my original point stands, since...

originally posted by: IndyFront
The problem isn't Russia

And I repeat myself.
BTW I love Wales. Went there back in 2005.

a reply to: rickymouse

The people there voted to join Russia, there were lots of Russians living there and friends to those people.

Even Russia's own Human Rights Council refutes this narrative. While the Kremlin's official claim is that something like 80% of the peninsula voted and of those 90% voted in favor of annexation, three actual numbers show only 25% of the peninsula voted and of those less than 50% voted in favor of annexation.

Joining the west was not favored by lots of Ukranians,

It was favored by the majority of the country. That's why Ukraine tried to join NATO in 2008, joined the Partnership for Peace program after they were denied, started passing legislation that would make them NATO compliant, and then started a nation wide protest when Yanukovych allowed himself to be bought by Putin.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: rickymouse

The people there voted to join Russia, there were lots of Russians living there and friends to those people.

Even Russia's own Human Rights Council refutes this narrative. While the Kremlin's official claim is that something like 80% of the peninsula voted and of those 90% voted in favor of annexation, three actual numbers show only 25% of the peninsula voted and of those less than 50% voted in favor of annexation.

Joining the west was not favored by lots of Ukranians,

It was favored by the majority of the country. That's why Ukraine tried to join NATO in 2008, joined the Partnership for Peace program after they were denied, started passing legislation that would make them NATO compliant, and then started a nation wide protest when Yanukovych allowed himself to be bought by Putin.

And yet none of this is relevant to the fact that Ukraine is a third-world corrupt #hole that just voted to become a military dictatorship under martial law. BOTH sides of this conflict are acting like #ing retards and refusing to speak to one another, ergo, they're both equally oppressors and both equally at fault, all the while the Ukrainian and Russian people suffer as their overlords seek to divide and conquer them.

a reply to: IndyFront

My apologies, I totally misunderstood you then
Rainbows
Jane

originally posted by: angelchemuel

originally posted by: IndyFront
The problem isn't Russia, ..... If anything its the U.S. allowing big countries to run ramshackle all over

....erm.......I think you'll find the US has a far longer list of countries that it has run ramshakle over since WWII than Russia.......I could be wrong......nope....don't think so....

Yeah, there are a real lot of countries out there that do not like the US because of this kind of stuff happening in the past. We got our noses in everyone's business and if they do not accept our bribe money...humanitarian support...for some reason war breaks out in their countries, by groups with financial support supplied by untraceable money.

originally posted by: IndyFront

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: rickymouse

The people there voted to join Russia, there were lots of Russians living there and friends to those people.

Even Russia's own Human Rights Council refutes this narrative. While the Kremlin's official claim is that something like 80% of the peninsula voted and of those 90% voted in favor of annexation, three actual numbers show only 25% of the peninsula voted and of those less than 50% voted in favor of annexation.

Joining the west was not favored by lots of Ukranians,

It was favored by the majority of the country. That's why Ukraine tried to join NATO in 2008, joined the Partnership for Peace program after they were denied, started passing legislation that would make them NATO compliant, and then started a nation wide protest when Yanukovych allowed himself to be bought by Putin.

And yet none of this is relevant to the fact that Ukraine is a third-world corrupt #hole that just voted to become a military dictatorship under martial law. BOTH sides of this conflict are acting like #ing retards and refusing to speak to one another, ergo, they're both equally oppressors and both equally at fault, all the while the Ukrainian and Russian people suffer as their overlords seek to divide and conquer them.

OOOh, I totally agree with that last part, two irrate rams butting heads.

originally posted by: rickymouse

OOOh, I totally agree with that last part, two irrate rams butting heads.

Not to mention that over the past 4 years culminating in this most recent spat, Ukraine has held strong against protracted endurance-based conflict in the East, whilst simultaneously dealing with right-wing ultranationalists in the West, whilst simultaneously dealing with Russia directly here, the largest country on Earth and one of the most powerful military. Ukraine seems capable of holding its own fairly well without US intervention or NATO. Perhaps those offering only a slap on the wrist for Russia know what they're talking about. Still only a matter of time before someone that makes Poroshenko look like a newborn kitten gets into office and starts pushing some incredibly xenophobic Russophobia and far-right ultranationalism, and before we know it they're making a nuke North Korea-style.

originally posted by: AtlasHawk

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: rickymouse

Voting under gunpoint is not a free vote.

I could say the same thing about Kosovo ^

Well when you tried to ethnically cleanse the other group you lost the moral high ground. The vote was fair and not co ersed that time because the UN ovrrsaw it.