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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez makes a fool of herself yet AGAIN with tweet on single-payer

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posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 12:15 PM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

I get that you enjoy your National Health System.


Understood.

But we, in America, have a different view to healthcare.


It is not a right, granted by government, but a purchased service. Now government, our government, Is inept and corrupt.


So if we placed healthcare into the hands of our government, then we would have an inept and corrupt healthcare system.




posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 12:15 PM
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originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: ketsuko

I would wish you the healthcare version I grew up with lol, interesting points though.


I don't want it.

I know how well socialized health care works for people with chronic migraine. That is to say not well at all.

Chronic migraine is a highly individualized condition. There are hundreds of combinations of medications, many not really indicated for the treatment of migraine, and alternative therapies that have to be experimented with by specialized neurologists in order to really find a combination of both triggers and treatments that work on an individualized basis for each patient.

This is the sort of thing socialized care simply does not do well, and while you go through those years of trial and error to find what works for you, there are emergency room visits for IV therapy and drug treatment for attacks that won't stop, and in socialized care countries that can take forever and migraine sufferers often get turned away as drug seekers. I know of two or three such who died of strokes because the ER would not treat them in European countries and one in Canada.

And then you run into refusal to try alternative drugs because the socialized care committees will not approve them. As far as they're concerned, one drug works for most migraine patients and if it doesn't work for you, you're SOL despite the common knowledge that migraine is a highly individualized disease with a wide variance in what works and what doesn't from person to person.

So ... no. Thanks but no thanks. I'm just as glad I didn't have your country's standard of care. Mine found what works for me in a timely (for migraine) manner, and I have my life back now. Otherwise, I might still be in ball in a dark room attempting to sleep my life away to try to avoid the horrendous pain in my head.



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 12:21 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
Again, the problem with socialism is that it imagines that if people need $20 to get by and one guy has $40 while the other has nothing, the answer is to take $20 from the guy with $40 and simply give it to the guy with nothing and then everyone will be happy. They further think they can continue to do this day after day and nothing will ever change.

The guy with $40 will continue to have $40 and the guy with nothing will always have nothing.

They never imagine that humans being humans, behaviors will change. They never thing the guy with $40 might resent having half of his taken and simply decide not to bother and only come in with $35 or $25 or even just $20 to avoid having the excess taken.

They never stop to ask why it is the guy with nothing actually has nothing. Is it because he genuinely is not able to provide for himself? Is it because he has made poor choices in life or is it because he won't do for himself and prefers to be enabled by handouts from the system? Or is it a combination of the above? Is it actually possible this man could do for himself if the time and effort were made on his part? Instead of simply enabling him in his poverty through giving him the hard work of others, would it be possible to make him self-supporting so he could earn his own $20?

Socialism never addresses those questions. It's too busy making things fair to bother.


Although i agree, you forget that the reason the guy with no money, more than often doesnt have any money because of Capitalism. The game is rigged, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
The way things are now, people steal from you everyday.

a prostitute cant have a pimp, poor girl, but everybody else has to pay most of the money THEY earn, to some pos who owns everything allready. It is the same as socialism, it is just the rich who takes from the poor.

People should be able to keep what they earn, i agree. But they wont get that luxury with either socialism nor capitalism...
edit on 25 11 2018 by NoFearsEqualsFreeMan because: (no reason given)

edit on 25 11 2018 by NoFearsEqualsFreeMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 12:24 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Fair one, but the story sucks as a US story, you all speak in riddles, and I know us British people do, but your riddles are more like crazy riddles.



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 12:28 PM
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a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

So says the person who buys the lie that all wealth is a zero sum game with a finite pie.

Funny, but that's not quite how it works.

According to your warped view, if I have a tomato seed and spend the time and effort to plant it, nurture it, and bring the plant to maturity so that it bears fruit, I have somehow stolen those tomatoes from everyone else. They do have value after all.

Of course, nevermind that the only reason those tomatoes exist at all is because I spent a good deal of my own time and effort in making sure they exist. No one else did a thing to make them happen. Had I not take the initiative, there would be no tomatoes at all. So how do you "steal" things that wouldn't exist without your effort to make them happen?



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 12:30 PM
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a reply to: rollanotherone

It isn´t free at all, you´re going to pay for it with each paycheck.



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 12:30 PM
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originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: ketsuko

Fair one, but the story sucks as a US story, you all speak in riddles, and I know us British people do, but your riddles are more like crazy riddles.


In other words, you don't want to concede that there are points to what I say.

Look, your system does things for you and you find it adequate, but it has its flaws.

We all know our system has its flaws. You find us griping about them all the time.



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 12:32 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko
I am equally pleased you got outside today and found some friendly opinions of others



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 12:36 PM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Can you tell me that our government which cannot manage to educate our children or run a socialized system for just our veterans could actually run such a service for 350 million of us?

This is where our skepticism comes in. Most of the government-run services in this nation fail at a high level.



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 12:36 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I concede, I'm going to bed soon lol, riddles is all, word games, which is why politics is a laugh for me more than anything lol



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 12:38 PM
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I'm rooting for this girl. Not because I agree with her on anything but because I want to watch her beat all of your nastiness and the nastiness of the alt righters who hang on her everyword

Nasty group you people are



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 12:40 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

So says the person who buys the lie that all wealth is a zero sum game with a finite pie.

Funny, but that's not quite how it works.

According to your warped view, if I have a tomato seed and spend the time and effort to plant it, nurture it, and bring the plant to maturity so that it bears fruit, I have somehow stolen those tomatoes from everyone else. They do have value after all.

Of course, nevermind that the only reason those tomatoes exist at all is because I spent a good deal of my own time and effort in making sure they exist. No one else did a thing to make them happen. Had I not take the initiative, there would be no tomatoes at all. So how do you "steal" things that wouldn't exist without your effort to make them happen?


Wow


Didnt know i was talking with someone from kindergarden...

I didnt say that at all.

To use youre example. Someone grows and nuture the tomatoplant, and do all the work to make sure that tomato can be sold. Then SOMEONE ELSE, the guy who doesnt do anything to grow the tomato, earns all the money, and pays a little share of the profit to the worker, just enough to pay the basis needs, nothing more. Just like a pimp.

That guy, also spend his money on goverment, to make sure restrictions are put in place, to make it a lot harder for the worker, to start his own tomato farm, so he doesnt risk loosing his tomato empire to people who want to earn money for themself, and not give it away to others. Right, do you follow, or is it to hard?

if the worker somehow gets to build his own tomato farm, the rich guy who allready has more than enough money, just use his money/power/influence to undermine the market to make sure the worker fails. And that is the problem, the system is not fair at all.

Dont expect you to get it, you sound like someone not able to use youre brain.

Please dont answer this post, i DONT CARE what someone like you thinks, iam here to debate, not to fight someone from kindergarden, so i wont care to ever answer you again.
edit on 25 11 2018 by NoFearsEqualsFreeMan because: (no reason given)

edit on 25 11 2018 by NoFearsEqualsFreeMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 12:45 PM
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a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

So you are saying that capitalism isn't actually to blame, but the interference of our government is the reason for all of our woes?



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 12:48 PM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

What's your income and property tax over there look like?



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 12:48 PM
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originally posted by: ClovenSky
a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

So you are saying that capitalism isn't actually to blame, but the interference of our government is the reason for all of our woes?


Guess so, iam all for free market and the opportunity to build something up from the ground that will make you rich. But our system is corrupt and that is also part of Capitalism.

IMO we need a whole new system (or change everything in the old) for it to work
edit on 25 11 2018 by NoFearsEqualsFreeMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 12:50 PM
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originally posted by: verschickter

It isn´t free at all, you´re going to pay for it with each paycheck.


We already do that. My health insurance is just under $400 a month, about $600 on months with 3 pay periods, and I still have to pay to see a doctor. I find it hard to believe that the taxes for a universal system would cost me more than that.
edit on 25-11-2018 by LordAhriman because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 12:52 PM
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originally posted by: Mandroid7
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

What's your income and property tax over there look like?
Easy enough I only work 2 or 3 days a week, and I'm a scummy plasterer lol, my bills are covered and then I'm lazy as #, hence on ATS lots haha.



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 12:52 PM
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a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

Now we are getting somewhere. I kind of believe along the same lines. There is a great system potential in capitalism. But we always run into corruption. The ability to have true freedom and keep what you make/produce is one of the greatest incentives of all time. Also the freedom to enter into contract with one another without the interference of government basically made this country thrive.

Do you have any ideas of how to use the awesome structure of capitalism and prevent corruption that the concentrated wealth allows?



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 12:55 PM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Actually that sounds less like decency and more like enabling.



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 12:55 PM
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a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

Oh, I didn't realize that I was growing someone else's tomato seed. That's a different thing.

So the farmer pays me to grow his tomatoes?

Well then, I agree to the terms the farmer offers when I agree to become his employee. Generally, those terms are known beforehand. The negotiating power I have when we talk about the conditions of my employment are solely dependent on how rare the skills in question are, and I am not forced to accept those terms if I am not in favor of them.

How many other people are there who can the labor the farmer wants? If they are not difficult skills and just anyone can learn them with little effort, then I don't have much power as the farmer can just pay anyone else to do them, so he can more or less name his price. So long as even one other person is willing to do the job at that price, then it doesn't matter how highly I value my personal labor. The farmer doesn't have to pay me; he can pay the guy who will do it for less.

If I am part of a cadre of people who have a very rare skill and the farmer needs that skill though, I can ask a much higher rate. Usually, this is the value of education and training. This is where you get those better skills that command higher pay. Most people don't usually bother having neither the ability nor the inclination or discipline to submit to further training.

Of course, my use of the tomato example was to demonstrate that things of value are created all the time and wealth is not a fixed amount, and for the purposes of that example, I assumed that the tomato seed in question was mine.
edit on 25-11-2018 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)




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