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Locked and Loaded on the Border...

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posted on Nov, 23 2018 @ 08:41 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck


Show me where anyone with one foot across the border has such rights.


James Madison:

If aliens had no rights under the constitution, they might not only be banished, but even capitally punished, without a jury or the other incidents to a fair trial. But so far has a contrary principle been carried, in every part of the United States, that except on charges of treason, an alien has, besides all the common privileges, the special one of being tried by a jury, of which one half may be also aliens.
founders.archives.gov...


The illegal aliens who are ... challenging the state may claim the benefit of the Equal Protection clause which provides that no state shall 'deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.' Whatever his status under immigration laws, an alien is a 'person' in any ordinary sense of the term ... the undocumented status of these children does not establish a sufficient rational basis for denying benefits that the state affords other residents.
www.law.cornell.edu...


It must be concluded that all persons within the territory of the United States are entitled to the protection by those amendments [Fifth and Sixth] and that even aliens shall not be held to answer for a capital or other infamous crime, unless on presentment or indictment of a grand jury, nor deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law.
supreme.justia.com...

Watcha got?
 




Neither does it mean a higher court will not rule that the judge was out of his jurisdiction.
Or that the decision was incorrect. In the meantime the order stands. And this order does not change the status quo (contrary to your claim) while the president's proclamation would.
edit on 11/23/2018 by Phage because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 24 2018 @ 12:11 AM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TheRedneck




Congress makes the laws. That's what we're discussing: the laws Congress made.

Including a law that says someone can apply for asylum regardless of their status?

irrespective of such alien’s status, may apply for asylum in accordance with this section or, where applicable, section 1225(b) of this title.


Section 1225(b) does not provide authority to deny application for asylum. It provides authority to grant (or deny) asylum. Read it.



Well we aren't denying them application for asylum. They are welcomed to apply for asylum at a port of entry.

You are a smart person I presume, is it not obvious to you that these people are trying to enter the country illegally and then once caught they use a loophole in our system to apply for asylum of which they know they dont qualify which is why they tried to enter in a non port of entry in the first place?



posted on Nov, 24 2018 @ 12:19 AM
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a reply to: Phage

So , you lika da Riff Raff Mr. Bootae ? The Country has Enough of them Already .........



posted on Nov, 24 2018 @ 12:40 AM
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a reply to: Alien Abduct

The time has surely come.
But the president is not the one to do it. Only the Congress can.



edit on 11/24/2018 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2018 @ 12:57 AM
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a reply to: Phage

You mean Congress , the " Ball Less " Branch of the Federal Government acting on the Behalf of the Will of the American People ? Yeah , Good Luck with that ..........



posted on Nov, 24 2018 @ 12:59 AM
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a reply to: Zanti Misfit

I mean Congress. The body to which the Constitution grants sole authority to make law.



posted on Nov, 24 2018 @ 01:20 AM
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a reply to: Phage

I agree, it isnt the Presidents job to change laws and good thing we have these checks and balances. Wether I like the Presidents decision or not, the law is the law.

Another one that should change should be the catch and release. The only part about the catch and release i dont like is where they are releaseing them.

Honestly I believe President Trump is just trying to do his best to protect our border and also alleviate the massive influx of asylum applications overwhelming the system. It looks like President Trump should come up with a better idea to get that done.

Do you have any suggestions on how the President should be dealing with the border situation? Id like to hear everyone's solution, not just their gripe.



posted on Nov, 24 2018 @ 01:23 AM
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a reply to: Alien Abduct




Do you have any suggestions on how the President should be dealing with the border situation?
Not selling fear would be a good place to start.
Not putting all his eggs in his stupid wall would help.
www.nytimes.com...



posted on Nov, 24 2018 @ 02:00 AM
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a reply to: Phage

The one that really made me want me to slap President Trump upside the head is when he turned down funding for the wall because the deal included a path to citizenship for the dreamers. So far that is his biggest mistake.

WaPo



posted on Nov, 24 2018 @ 02:03 AM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Alien Abduct




Do you have any suggestions on how the President should be dealing with the border situation?
Not selling fear would be a good place to start.
Not putting all his eggs in his stupid wall would help.
www.nytimes.com...


But not doing something isn't a solution. What actions would you propose be taken?



posted on Nov, 24 2018 @ 03:05 AM
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a reply to: Phage

James Madison is talking about due process before denying life, liberty, or property. The 5th Amendment is clear there, that everyone qualifies. CBP cannot seize an illegal immigrant's property, execute them, or imprison them without due process. That is different than allowing them to break the law by crossing the border illegally.

The Equal Protection Clause is the 14th Amendment which applies to states. The United States is not a state.

The last excerpt is similar to the one by James Madison.


Or that the decision was incorrect. In the meantime the order stands. And this order does not change the status quo (contrary to your claim) while the president's proclamation would.

This decision was incorrect by a simple reading of the law. An injunction is supposedly only to be issued where there is both a strong likelihood the plaintiff will prevail and a demonstration that irreparable harm will be done to the plaintiff if forced to wait until the case is resolved for a decision. An injunction is not a judicial decision in itself, as it is issued by definition before the case is heard.

I see nothing that would suggest irreparable harm would be done to any immigrant by not allowing them to receive asylum along a 2000 mile stretch of mostly unguarded border. I do, however, see much potential for irreparable harm (as in injury or even death) to American citizens should someone with malicious motives be allowed to illegally cross into the US.

So far as the status quo changing, you are apparently basing this off the unsettled and disorderly immigration system that existed before Trump signed the Executive Order preventing asylum acceptance for those crossing illegally. I am using as a base the orderly system instituted by President Trump after the Executive Order.

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 24 2018 @ 03:07 AM
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originally posted by: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Alien Abduct




Do you have any suggestions on how the President should be dealing with the border situation?
Not selling fear would be a good place to start.
Not putting all his eggs in his stupid wall would help.
www.nytimes.com...


But not doing something isn't a solution. What actions would you propose be taken?


I have never seen Phage answer a question like the one you posed.

He usually comes back with a question to avoid such answers.

The comment portion of, 'stupid wall' says it all in my opinion.

I disagree with him. The Wall is necessary and has been proposed by both parties in the past. Finally something will get done. He will need his second term to finish it.

What many do not understand is that the drug kings control much of Mexico and the military / militias can turn on the US in a heart beat if it suits the Cabal.

P



edit on 24/11/2018 by pheonix358 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2018 @ 03:07 AM
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a reply to: Phage


Not selling fear would be a good place to start.
Not putting all his eggs in his stupid wall would help.

Not doing something is not the same as doing something.

Alien_Abduct has a good point; why don't you answer his question? What would you do to solve the problem?

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 24 2018 @ 01:47 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Phage


Not selling fear would be a good place to start.
Not putting all his eggs in his stupid wall would help.

Not doing something is not the same as doing something.

Alien_Abduct has a good point; why don't you answer his question? What would you do to solve the problem?

TheRedneck


Put all asylum seekers in a large unused military base. Families together. Men and women seperate sleeping quarters. They can mingle if they want to later in the day out in the open and in community areas. Like in a college with mens and womens dorms and no visitation with the oppsits sex in sleeping quarters.

Gaurd the base with every provision to the military possible. If the poeple seeking asylum try to escape or do something illegal. Cerate a Military asylum tribunal with possibility of just deportation with fingerprints and dna taken to a year in jail with deportation after sentence is done. If it is murder, then I would be open to corperal punishment. Be leanient while they are still learning about the US, our laws, and our ways. All of this needs to be taught to them as much as possible.

If possible everyone will have a job to do while on base weather it is teaching, watching kids, cooking, planting a community food garden, get some farm animals a group can look after, mowing, preaching if there is a preacher, and etc. Turn it into a small community as much as possible.

Those who follow the rules have to learn English well enough to talk with a US citizen no matter how long it takes. I don't mean they know just enough to order fries at MC Donalds.

Once they can speak english their asylum status can be looked over by a judge. If asylum is granted, they can find a place in the US. I would say after a couple of years they will be able to apply for US citizenship. They will be able to get if they show that they have become productive members of society. Are able to get along and make friends with everyone, and not just those who speak their native language/ from their place of orgin.

If they commit a crime after being released on asylum, when they get arrested they will have to face the military asylum tribunal. All punishments will be double with the possibility of captical punishment. They came here for asylum. Then they have the gull to commit a henios act against us? No go. First they lied probably fleeing from crimes they did in their own country. Second some things should be considered traitorous such as murder of anyone. If only prison time, then deportation.

If they had kids. Try to contact realitives first in thier home country then in the US. If none can be found then they will be placed in foster homes. If they are adopted by US citizens they will become US citizens. If not they will become US citizens if they do not have a juvenile record. If they do, it will be up to a judge on what to do or make any provisions they have to meet to become a citizen.

I'm thinking along the line of deportation of a kid who is becoming an adult but not a citizen who has already commited murder, a string of robberies, and has a history of violent criminal behavior. I know nobody is beyond hope. Instead of being emotional, let the law do its job. By that time prison might be their home.

You asked. That is just my opnion with as large of a group that is headed our way right now.
edit on 24/11/2018 by Mystery_Lady because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2018 @ 01:53 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Alien Abduct




Do you have any suggestions on how the President should be dealing with the border situation?
Not selling fear would be a good place to start.
Not putting all his eggs in his stupid wall would help.
www.nytimes.com...


Military presence, and the increasing number of border guards, are not in the "Wall basket". A long/high/deep wall is the most important component, but it's not the only deterrent that's needed.



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 12:08 AM
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a reply to: [post=23982522]Phage[/post

Are you lost in your ignorance? I believe you are grounded enough to posit an explanation/answer in your head, however weak or strong that truth may come across to yourself, it is what it is. The law is the law...

I respectfully inquire your opinion on how we should approach the border situation.



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 12:35 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 12:43 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Federal Judge Blocks Trump’s Proclamation Targeting Some Asylum Seekers


“Whatever the scope of the president’s authority, he may not rewrite the immigration laws to impose a condition that Congress has expressly forbidden,” Mr. Tigar wrote in his order.


Key word: proclamation




...any judge who ignores Constitutional authority


What on earth are you even talking about? You gave away your hand the minute you gave in to incivility - you got nothing Mr. Neck

It seems like some of you guys are on board with a kind of unholy magical fusion that will allow for a federalist monarchy

Trump needs one buffalo - but he will drive the whole herd off the side of a cliff if he has to. You might feel OK about being part of that herd. I do not



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 06:22 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis


What on earth are you even talking about? You gave away your hand the minute you gave in to incivility - you got nothing Mr. Neck

There's 10 pages filled with what I'm talking about... you have to read it to get it though.

Yeah, sucks, I know...

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 25 2018 @ 06:41 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

I've read all your posts. You pretty much count on people not being able to wade through it all


Whatever the scope of the president’s authority, he may not rewrite the immigration laws to impose a condition that Congress has expressly forbidden,” Mr. Tigar wrote in his order.


It's a temporary ruling - and it's obviously going to end up back in court. Many people are predicting it will be overturned. We'll see I guess

So, how did this judge ignore: constitutional authority?

I'm guessing you not capable of explaining it




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