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Canadian CF-18 fleet unable to meet NORAD and NATO commitments

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posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 08:32 AM
link   

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Fools
a reply to: jjkenobi

They should be ashamed of themselves. They spend about as much as Turkey on defense and yet in a head to head with Turkey they'd be wiped out in less than a week. If that.


You can't spend what you don't have.


You misunderstand. Actually Canada spends a bit more than Turkey and has nothing to show for it. Turkey has better everything than Canada and spends less. What are your politicians doing with the money would be a better question.

Keep in mind, Turkey is a NATO member and as such has access to all modern western equipment. Including the F-35. So how can Turkey have a larger, better trained, and better equipped army/navy/airforce than Canada? How does that happen?


We could, alternatively, ask your politicians anther question, why spend so much on military spending than all other countries?

en.wikipedia.org...


You could, but we are not completely unprepared for any military reality. So it's not an analogous question.




posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 08:41 AM
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originally posted by: penroc3
a reply to: Zaphod58

ha, beat ya.


but really, is it shocking with who is leading my beloved homeland(Germany)? no, not really.

i feel the need to put some dark humor in, but i wont.


Welcome to the "modern" west! Soft bellies we gladly show for you to sink your teeth into! Thank you! Please enjoy our entrails!"



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 08:41 AM
link   

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Fools
a reply to: jjkenobi

They should be ashamed of themselves. They spend about as much as Turkey on defense and yet in a head to head with Turkey they'd be wiped out in less than a week. If that.


You can't spend what you don't have.


There is a difference from being prepared and being overly paranoid prepared.
You misunderstand. Actually Canada spends a bit more than Turkey and has nothing to show for it. Turkey has better everything than Canada and spends less. What are your politicians doing with the money would be a better question.

Keep in mind, Turkey is a NATO member and as such has access to all modern western equipment. Including the F-35. So how can Turkey have a larger, better trained, and better equipped army/navy/airforce than Canada? How does that happen?


We could, alternatively, ask your politicians anther question, why spend so much on military spending than all other countries?

en.wikipedia.org...


You could, but we are not completely unprepared for any military reality. So it's not an analogous question.



Prepared or overly paranoid prepared?

sputniknews.com...
edit on 011CST08America/Chicago04680830 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 08:48 AM
link   

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Fools
a reply to: jjkenobi

They should be ashamed of themselves. They spend about as much as Turkey on defense and yet in a head to head with Turkey they'd be wiped out in less than a week. If that.


You can't spend what you don't have.


There is a difference from being prepared and being overly paranoid prepared.
You misunderstand. Actually Canada spends a bit more than Turkey and has nothing to show for it. Turkey has better everything than Canada and spends less. What are your politicians doing with the money would be a better question.

Keep in mind, Turkey is a NATO member and as such has access to all modern western equipment. Including the F-35. So how can Turkey have a larger, better trained, and better equipped army/navy/airforce than Canada? How does that happen?


We could, alternatively, ask your politicians anther question, why spend so much on military spending than all other countries?

en.wikipedia.org...


You could, but we are not completely unprepared for any military reality. So it's not an analogous question.



Prepared or overly paranoid prepared?

sputniknews.com...



Is the world a dangerous place? Yes or no? Is it dumb to be prepared for danger or threats? Yes or no? NATO is a joke, I really wish that the US would just pull out of it 100% so all of you people that say we are paranoid or whatever would just have to fend for yourselves. I really really do.



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 08:50 AM
link   

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Fools
a reply to: jjkenobi

They should be ashamed of themselves. They spend about as much as Turkey on defense and yet in a head to head with Turkey they'd be wiped out in less than a week. If that.


You can't spend what you don't have.


There is a difference from being prepared and being overly paranoid prepared.
You misunderstand. Actually Canada spends a bit more than Turkey and has nothing to show for it. Turkey has better everything than Canada and spends less. What are your politicians doing with the money would be a better question.

Keep in mind, Turkey is a NATO member and as such has access to all modern western equipment. Including the F-35. So how can Turkey have a larger, better trained, and better equipped army/navy/airforce than Canada? How does that happen?


We could, alternatively, ask your politicians anther question, why spend so much on military spending than all other countries?

en.wikipedia.org...


You could, but we are not completely unprepared for any military reality. So it's not an analogous question.



Prepared or overly paranoid prepared?

sputniknews.com...





Is the world a dangerous place? Yes or no? Is it dumb to be prepared for danger or threats? Yes or no? NATO is a joke, I really wish that the US would just pull out of it 100% so all of you people that say we are paranoid or whatever would just have to fend for yourselves. I really really do.


Is the world a dangerous place here in Canada and the U.S. - not so much. Over there! - yes.



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 08:52 AM
link   

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Fools
a reply to: jjkenobi

They should be ashamed of themselves. They spend about as much as Turkey on defense and yet in a head to head with Turkey they'd be wiped out in less than a week. If that.


You can't spend what you don't have.


There is a difference from being prepared and being overly paranoid prepared.
You misunderstand. Actually Canada spends a bit more than Turkey and has nothing to show for it. Turkey has better everything than Canada and spends less. What are your politicians doing with the money would be a better question.

Keep in mind, Turkey is a NATO member and as such has access to all modern western equipment. Including the F-35. So how can Turkey have a larger, better trained, and better equipped army/navy/airforce than Canada? How does that happen?


We could, alternatively, ask your politicians anther question, why spend so much on military spending than all other countries?

en.wikipedia.org...


You could, but we are not completely unprepared for any military reality. So it's not an analogous question.



Prepared or overly paranoid prepared?

sputniknews.com...





Is the world a dangerous place? Yes or no? Is it dumb to be prepared for danger or threats? Yes or no? NATO is a joke, I really wish that the US would just pull out of it 100% so all of you people that say we are paranoid or whatever would just have to fend for yourselves. I really really do.


Is the world a dangerous place here in Canada and the U.S. - not so much. Over there! - yes, so why not limit your involvement over there?




posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 09:12 AM
link   

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Fools
a reply to: jjkenobi

They should be ashamed of themselves. They spend about as much as Turkey on defense and yet in a head to head with Turkey they'd be wiped out in less than a week. If that.


You can't spend what you don't have.


There is a difference from being prepared and being overly paranoid prepared.
You misunderstand. Actually Canada spends a bit more than Turkey and has nothing to show for it. Turkey has better everything than Canada and spends less. What are your politicians doing with the money would be a better question.

Keep in mind, Turkey is a NATO member and as such has access to all modern western equipment. Including the F-35. So how can Turkey have a larger, better trained, and better equipped army/navy/airforce than Canada? How does that happen?


We could, alternatively, ask your politicians anther question, why spend so much on military spending than all other countries?

en.wikipedia.org...


You could, but we are not completely unprepared for any military reality. So it's not an analogous question.



Prepared or overly paranoid prepared?

sputniknews.com...





Is the world a dangerous place? Yes or no? Is it dumb to be prepared for danger or threats? Yes or no? NATO is a joke, I really wish that the US would just pull out of it 100% so all of you people that say we are paranoid or whatever would just have to fend for yourselves. I really really do.


Is the world a dangerous place here in Canada and the U.S. - not so much. Over there! - yes, so why not limit your involvement over there?



I think we have a president (the first one in my lifetime) that is actually attempting that but all I ever hear is scorn. If I was king, you would lose all American military support instantly. Including Canada.



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 09:16 AM
link   

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Fools
a reply to: jjkenobi

They should be ashamed of themselves. They spend about as much as Turkey on defense and yet in a head to head with Turkey they'd be wiped out in less than a week. If that.


You can't spend what you don't have.


There is a difference from being prepared and being overly paranoid prepared.
You misunderstand. Actually Canada spends a bit more than Turkey and has nothing to show for it. Turkey has better everything than Canada and spends less. What are your politicians doing with the money would be a better question.

Keep in mind, Turkey is a NATO member and as such has access to all modern western equipment. Including the F-35. So how can Turkey have a larger, better trained, and better equipped army/navy/airforce than Canada? How does that happen?


We could, alternatively, ask your politicians anther question, why spend so much on military spending than all other countries?

en.wikipedia.org...


You could, but we are not completely unprepared for any military reality. So it's not an analogous question.



Prepared or overly paranoid prepared?

sputniknews.com...





Is the world a dangerous place? Yes or no? Is it dumb to be prepared for danger or threats? Yes or no? NATO is a joke, I really wish that the US would just pull out of it 100% so all of you people that say we are paranoid or whatever would just have to fend for yourselves. I really really do.


Is the world a dangerous place here in Canada and the U.S. - not so much. Over there! - yes, so why not limit your involvement over there?



I think we have a president (the first one in my lifetime) that is actually attempting that but all I ever hear is scorn. If I was king, you would lose all American military support instantly. Including Canada.


Then why did your President raise the military budget?



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 09:23 AM
link   
a reply to: Fools


NATO is a joke, I really wish that the US would just pull out of it 100% so all of you people that say we are paranoid or whatever would just have to fend for yourselves. I really really do.


You want the US to pull out of NATO to prove a juvenile point?

What mandatory obligations are other NATO members not meeting? Which country called on NATO before?

You know what I really really wish for? Sound decision making.

a reply to: InTheLight

It doesn't matter what dollar value is spent on defense relative to other countries, since those countries have different cost of labour, different threats, different geography, and different sizes. What matters is the goals of the defense policy and how much they are willing to spend to reach those goals. The US military is actually over-committed relative to its current size, so either its defense ("defense") ambitions must be decreased or it must increase spending. Or both.

That's why the US is putting pressure on allied nations to increase defense spending by threatening to pull out of NATO. Russia of course is working to break NATO apart by sowing internal division. Therefore, although there are similarities between the two approaches but they have two very different results, one that is aligned with US interests, the other that probably isn't. The US is also trying to sell weapons (which is a perversion of how national security should work, that is, flowing downwards, not upwards) and NATO was going to increase defense spending anyway.

Trump threatening to pull out of NATO to sell more weapons and to goad others into increasing defense spending is playing with fire. Other NATO members need to start taking defense seriously much more quickly to put this discussion to an end.
edit on 21/11/18 by C0bzz because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 09:39 AM
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a reply to: Fools

i was thinking about a time when the world crushed germany economically and the result of that was Germany almost taking over the world. im not saying im a fan of fascism, just an observation.

Germany is one of the most prosperous places in Europe, but i feel like parts of the government were willing to give their own defense away to the US, and with that giving the US a lot more control.

i could understand when the Germans were making the budget deciding where to spend their money, that they would let defense slip, after all America has a large presence there. An attack on germany is by proxy(bombing out bases) an attack on the US.

any real attack on germany would have to take out the US bases first, so i could see a politician asking why they should spend all this cash when they could just leave it to the americans.



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 09:40 AM
link   

originally posted by: C0bzz
a reply to: Fools


NATO is a joke, I really wish that the US would just pull out of it 100% so all of you people that say we are paranoid or whatever would just have to fend for yourselves. I really really do.


You want the US to pull out of NATO to prove a juvenile point?

What mandatory obligations are other NATO members not meeting? Which country called on NATO before?

You know what I really really wish for? Sound decision making.

a reply to: InTheLight

It doesn't matter what dollar value is spent on defense relative to other countries, since those countries have different cost of labour, different threats, different geography, and different sizes. What matters is the goals of the defense policy and how much they are willing to spend to reach those goals. The US military is actually over-committed relative to its current size, so either its defense ("defense") ambitions must be decreased or it must increase spending. Or both.

That's why the US is putting pressure on allied nations to increase defense spending by threatening to pull out of NATO. Russia of course is working to break NATO apart by sowing internal division. Therefore, there are similarities between the two approaches but with two very different results, one that is aligned with US interests, the other that isn't. The US is also trying to sell weapons (which is a perversion of how national security should work, that is, flowing downwards) and NATO was going to increase defense spending anyway.



Yes, I think we should pull out of NATO. 100 percent. And to be honest, we didn't really "call" on NATO - the whole Iraq debacle was obviously a globalist work and when I look back at it - all of the politicians in NATO (with the exception of Turkey for obvious reasons) couldn't wait to get in their and bomb the crap out of people either.

So maybe if the USA wasn't in NATO that wouldn't have happened. WIN WIN in my mind.



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 09:45 AM
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originally posted by: penroc3
a reply to: Fools

i was thinking about a time when the world crushed germany economically and the result of that was Germany almost taking over the world. im not saying im a fan of fascism, just an observation.

Germany is one of the most prosperous places in Europe, but i feel like parts of the government were willing to give their own defense away to the US, and with that giving the US a lot more control.

i could understand when the Germans were making the budget deciding where to spend their money, that they would let defense slip, after all America has a large presence there. An attack on germany is by proxy(bombing out bases) an attack on the US.

any real attack on germany would have to take out the US bases first, so i could see a politician asking why they should spend all this cash when they could just leave it to the americans.





I agree with you. I spent a good amount of time in Germany in the late 1980's and I love Germany and Germans and in fact it is my favorite country in the world aside the US just based on the friendliness of the German people I met at the time.

Germany might be the only one that gets a pass since the national culture there is "anti-war" because of the collective guilt the Germans feel if even on a subconscious level. Also the Germans faced the worlds worst diaspora after WW2 because of the Soviet Union and no one gave a damn at the time because of what Hitler had caused.

So yeah, Germany will always have a problem with defense, what its role is and what is going to far. However, every other member of NATO does not have that problem and are free loading.



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 09:48 AM
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a reply to: Fools


It has been invoked only once in NATO history: by the United States after the September 11 attacks in 2001.[12][13] The invocation was confirmed on 4 October 2001, when NATO determined that the attacks were indeed eligible under the terms of the North Atlantic Treaty.[14] The eight official actions taken by NATO in response to the 9/11 attacks included Operation Eagle Assist and Operation Active Endeavour, a naval operation in the Mediterranean which was designed to prevent the movement of terrorists or weapons of mass destruction, as well as enhancing the security of shipping in general. Active Endeavour began on 4 October 2001.[15]

en.wikipedia.org...


As far as Iraq goes, that was solely the fault of elected officials of the United States. The United States dragged its allies along. The solution isn't for the United States to remove itself from defence treaties, the solution is for the United States to not drag its allies into pointless wars.


Yes, I think we should pull out of NATO.


Okay, and why?



However, every other member of NATO does not have that problem and are free loading.


What mandatory obligations are other NATO members not meeting?
edit on 21/11/18 by C0bzz because: (no reason given)

edit on 21/11/18 by C0bzz because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 09:54 AM
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originally posted by: C0bzz
a reply to: Fools


It has been invoked only once in NATO history: by the United States after the September 11 attacks in 2001.[12][13] The invocation was confirmed on 4 October 2001, when NATO determined that the attacks were indeed eligible under the terms of the North Atlantic Treaty.[14] The eight official actions taken by NATO in response to the 9/11 attacks included Operation Eagle Assist and Operation Active Endeavour, a naval operation in the Mediterranean which was designed to prevent the movement of terrorists or weapons of mass destruction, as well as enhancing the security of shipping in general. Active Endeavour began on 4 October 2001.[15]

en.wikipedia.org...


As far as Iraq goes, that was solely the fault of elected officials of the United States. The United States dragged its allies along. The solution isn't for the United States to remove itself from defence treaties, the solution is for the United States to not drag its allies into pointless wars.


Yes, I think we should pull out of NATO.


Okay, and why?



However, every other member of NATO does not have that problem and are free loading.


What mandatory obligations are other NATO members not meeting?


Let me ask you this question, what is NATO protecting people from? Is the network of nations needed to protect anyone from anything in realistic terms.

I agree with the Frenchy PM, Europe should form your own EU defense organization. Leave us out of your nonsense.



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 09:55 AM
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My apologies to the OP on this for thread drift. I will start my own NATO sucks thread at a later date.



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 12:54 PM
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originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Fools
a reply to: jjkenobi

They should be ashamed of themselves. They spend about as much as Turkey on defense and yet in a head to head with Turkey they'd be wiped out in less than a week. If that.


You can't spend what you don't have.


News flash: the US is broke, too.

So,.no. I don't think asking countries with large GDP's (like Canada and Germany) to field a credible defensive force is out of line if they expect us to use our wealth (and worse, our blood) on their defense. I'm fairly sure Greece could overrun Germany right now. I don't think 2.5-3% is out of line.

They all want to spend that money elsewhere, but so do we. We have our own domestic programs short on cash, or better yet cut spending drastically across the board.

It's one thing to help a neighbor fight his house fire, and another thing when the neighbor let's the tinder pile up around his house and won't buy a hose and won't be willing to participate because he figures you'll buy all the hoses and extinguishers he needs because you make more and won't want your own house to burn down.



posted on Nov, 22 2018 @ 05:30 AM
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a reply to: Fools


Let me ask you this question, what is NATO protecting people from? Is the network of nations needed to protect anyone from anything in realistic terms.

I agree with the Frenchy PM, Europe should form your own EU defense organization. Leave us out of your nonsense.


I asked you a question twice and you failed to answer. So I'm not going to answer your question, I'm just going to repeat what you said because you're contradicting yourself.


Is the world a dangerous place? Yes or no? Is it dumb to be prepared for danger or threats? Yes or no? NATO is a joke, I really wish that the US would just pull out of it 100% so all of you people that say we are paranoid or whatever would just have to fend for yourselves. I really really do.



Also only time Article V was invoked was by the United States, but I'm repeating myself here. More often than not, it's the US dragging others on with its nonsense.

There are no mandatory obligations for other NATO members to spend a certain amount on defense at this time. In addition, the US spends 3.1% but much of that is aimed at the Pacific and South America, not defending Atlanticism.

NATO is almost always considered critical.

Should Europe spend more on defense? Yeah, and they are starting. Of course, the dotard criticizes them for that when they start.
edit on 22/11/18 by C0bzz because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2018 @ 08:40 PM
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a reply to: Fools

No realism here, perhaps paranoid...so approve those military budgets...pronto.



posted on Nov, 23 2018 @ 08:50 PM
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If you want to have a modern military and want to be able to project power for what ever reason tickles your pickle you have to spend the money.
It is not possible to keep weapon systems modern and able to function in a war time environment you need to keep them updated.



posted on Nov, 23 2018 @ 08:52 PM
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originally posted by: Irishhaf
If you want to have a modern military and want to be able to project power for what ever reason tickles your pickle you have to spend the money.
It is not possible to keep weapon systems modern and able to function in a war time environment you need to keep them updated.



Updated equals big bucks. What about peace and love?



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