Is it time to change the current limits of capital punishment in order to deter mass shootings?

a reply to: Enigma Publius

I'm personally opposed to the death penalty, so my opinion is clouded by that. I also believe life without parole is the harshest punishment there is. The death penalty is an easy out in my opinion.

We devolve, yes devolve, to the level of things like you're suggesting, the state becomes as bad as the criminals in my mind.

Then you have the fact that violent crime has fallen dramatically over the last quarter century, not risen. Since it has fallen, the so called mass shootings are an anomaly. An anomaly caused by the Internet and cable news creating so much competition that the media sensationalizes, romanticizes and even seems at time to be encouraging the crazies to surface for their fifteen minutes of fame.

From Pew Research.

Using the FBI numbers, the violent crime rate fell 48% between 1993 and 2016. Using the BJS data, the rate fell 74% during that span

We do need to drop the stupid PC garbage that led to us not addressing mental illness in a direct manner. No longer being able to commit people who pose a risk for their and societies own good. Facilities to deal with them no longer exist in any meaningful way and law enforcement hands have been tied. Let's face it, many of the protected class of the mentally ill are dangerous to us and themselves and as it is now, nothing can be done. If the social stigma were gone, parents and loved ones might just be quicker to seek help.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Enigma Publius

We need to look into ways to treat mental illness better.
In the past they just locked people in insane asylums or did horrible shock treatment or lobotomies.

I don't think they do anything now, people just fall in the cracks.
Mental health care will help solve some of these issues.

#2 fines for any news outlets that sensationalizes mass shooting.

Yes this is so true. In the other thread I have the example of how my blood sugar had bottomed out one day and my family called the police assuming it was drugs making me do erratic things even though I was supposedly clean as they understood, they assumed it must be a relapse. I was taken to the hospital by police and rescue services and they tested me for drugs and seeing that wasn't the case treated my blood sugar somehow and I talked to a judge right there in my hospital room and was released of my own care within six hours.
They while process worked just as it should and the people treating me only had my care in mind. No one was trying to say I wasn't okay by the time I WAS okay, the judge was so nice even though his personal life was interrupted by me. Even when it was still a possibility to them that I WAS in drugs I was being treated the same as when they found out it was my blood sugar. I wish the red flag law could work like that.

a reply to: Blaine91555

Wow that is very interesting! I'm going to look at your info more carefully for sure. so much to considering this topic and I do not want to come to a complete belief without being educated.
Thank you

a reply to: Enigma Publius

you mean take something illegal and make it more illegal?

nah. dont think it will work

people are never going to stop killing each other
having sex
gambling
drugs

just not happening

It's not cheap to put someone in prison for life. Having prisoners work to support them selves is cruel punishment now. How long before the huge prison base is going to cost much. Maybe if the drug sentences are done away with to free up space.

a reply to: roadgravel

I am conflicted on that somewhat also. I am Christian , have been most of my life now ,but I remember some of the things I said and did before I was. I am different now. I truly felt bad about some things id done and the person I was.
We always feel that we are "complete" or "evolved" to our current line of thinking and being when in reality we change so much over time. We are never done and each day I wake up I have the chance to be someone new, better, or to devolve into being someone worse.

a reply to: roadgravel

You recall the Movie "Escape from New York" Now that could be a deterrent . Put inside the walls and now fend for yourself .

a reply to: roadgravel

Yes drugs need to be addressed. I have stayed away from certain crimes out of fear of the punishment, but NEVER was so scared that it helped my addiction. For sure all minor drug offenses should be completely done away with. The war on drugs was over before it started.
I say that and I have a 16 years old young man. He's never tried drugs.lots of his friends do but partly just being a good kid with his head screwed on right, and partly from the pain I caused him and examples of me he saw as a outgrowing up with an addict for a father, he has no desire to experiment even and just views his friends with empathy and yes even pity. He personally doesn't understand how a person gets to the point that they are okay with drugs even though I'm his childhood I exposed him to VERY liberal beliefs about drug use. I'm so blessed that I don't have to watch him take that path despite my examples of nearly pushing him in the path.

When someone makes a decision to end another person's right to live, it should be a signal that they do not want to be a functioning part of society.

There are people killing a person for their car, life insurance or to save face in a divorce. Self centered garbage.

I think it's possibly a better deterrent to deny some of these psychopaths the fame or infamy they seek and are inspired to achieve by other famous or infamous psychopaths in past mass killings. I think some of them assume that regardless of the outcome for them, their act of mass killing will make the entire world know them and remember them, and they way the media provides coverage for these killers makes that a near certainty.

If there was only a way to deny them this "fame" I think it could deter or at least make some future mass killer less inspired, or perhaps to think twice if there's no reward of fame or infamy for them afterward.

Just a thought.

a reply to: Gargoyle91

Yes I thought about that. Only bad thing there is that people who are predisposed to bring good at violence may reign as a king there. I feel that many options should exist, but have standards in those options,so that case by case could be decided on with logic applied to their crime. It's tempting to also say that ONLY the families should have the right to decide what happens to the killer, but that could get so out of hand so freaking fast.
So yeah I'm open to the style you proposed but only for the pimply armed little cowards that do shootings, if they are obviously some career criminal or look like The Rock, don't send them to a place like that. I'm their case maybe a '___' induced daily trauma to their body and mind for say, one month for each victim before being shot by a firing squad. So if a guy shoots 12 prople, torture him for a year before killing him.
Absolutely serious here I'll add.

a reply to: ausername

Yes that's part of the problem I feel.that's why I think the punishment should be done behind closed doors where they cannot be a martyr or whatever. Not viewed publicly like some other things we've seen. Saddam Hussein's hanging is one example of a more public death that I would wish to avoid.

a reply to: Enigma Publius

Going to jail for pot is wrong. If people can drink, they should be able to smoke. The police can do different work then shake down drivers for pot. Tax pot and the police force could be funded all or in part with the tax money.

originally posted by: Gargoyle91
a reply to: roadgravel

You recall the Movie "Escape from New York" Now that could be a deterrent . Put inside the walls and now fend for yourself .

Yeah, that would be a much better solution.
Throw people who cant follow the rules out of society. Give them an island somewhere, and just leave them alone. Only have ships guarding the island, to ensure they never leaves again, and they can do whatever they want, the importen thing is they are not around us when they do it.

But everybody in this society, would have to agree on the rules, and sign a paper that they agree on this and will be thrown out if they dont keep up the contract.

Make different islands. One for small crimes, where people have an opportunity to come back. And one for hardcore criminals, where serial killers and rapist can get to play with each other. Who cares if they dont know how to get food on the table, get close on their body or can figure out how to build a decent home. That is no longer the societys problem.

Thing that would make most people think twice about doing crimes. But everybody in this example of an society, would have to agree on the rules to get in, in the first place. Now we are just born into it, and we all had/have no real saying in how the rules are...

a reply to: roadgravel

Not disagreeing here. But I am putting forth mass shootings and their punishment only. The topic of murder is so briad, just this one issue is plenty for thousands of threads. I am concerned that my right or my neighbors right to protect the country are going to be destroyed if mass shootings continue to rise. This thread is only about decreasing the number of shootings.

a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

A good idea for those who would be scared of such an island. I still believe some would love the idea of a place like that. I do however also feel that we as a society should all agree on this. I think we should have multiple options available that we agree on and maybe even vote on.

a reply to: Enigma Publius

I've thought that way but I'm totally against the death penalty I think it's very arrogant We in no way know what happens after death for all we know we could be doing them a favor sending them to a better place . So the torture must go on for the rest of their natural life . But Now you have to do something about the truly mentally ill ..

I can only say to Americans look to other nations, we have the same media, same medical prescriptions, same poor/rich divides, same music and so on

So I will put forth my idea (and get called a dumb democrat/ even though I vote conservative in UK), access to guns is the only real difference, you cant blame the TV, games, music , social media, drugs (legal/illegal) as every other country has the same influences.

Pick it apart, call me crazy, you asked for ideas, remove your guns from society

a reply to: Enigma Publius

Mass shootings are a drop in the bucket. People make it sounds as a giant problem when it is a small part of the killing each year.

I see no difference if a child is killed at school or on the street corner or their yard.

most mass shooters end up dead, so they go into not expecting to live. so killing them won't work.

stop making the *ATS Edits* famous would help more than laws. STOP using their names their images.