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Is it time to change the current limits of capital punishment in order to deter mass shootings?

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posted on Nov, 19 2018 @ 03:10 PM
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I read and participated in a forum recently about this new red flag law where the gentlemen was shot a police tried to take away his guns and i posed the question was the law a decent compromise on gun rights even though that situation ended so horribly. I don't feel that any action on either side of this issue will be clean ( you know the whole breaking eggs to make an omlet arguement)
I have a genuine fear that as these mass shootings get to be more and more common, it could reach a tipping point where progressives and hardcore liberals are able to push through a dramatic and restrictive law on guns that overshadows all previous concessions on the part of fun owners. I live in an area where most of the people own guns, but ones even, and they are responsible and good people that I WANT owning those guns because the issue has nothing to do with hunting and is about protecting the people from a tyrannical government. I hate it when someone enters the argument with something similar to: " what individual needs thirty rounds in a scary black gun like this one? " (pointing to an AR-15)
the answer is EVERYONE who can handle a weapon and is responsible needs a weapon like that when you are facing a power with way bigger guns than you have. Every time one of our overseas cousins is having a revolution against a tyrannical government the best way we help them is with guns and equipment to face their government. It could get that bad here and I want those guns ready to go if it ever did.
But I realize I share my country with people I do not agree with who are very scared. They will need the protection of guns just like anyone else someday maybe, but at this moment they are only worried about this moment. They have fear when they go out in public. They may not have ever been in favor of banning guns, but the people that are may get them to you on the issue of it continues to get worse.
In the red flag forum I eventually had to agree that compromises have completely been in the side of gun OWNERS and that one more inch of compromise is too much. I happen to agree with that and at the same time I want these shootings to decrease and I brainstorm so much in areas where I see such a deep divide because I am not conservative in all issues, I lean progressive on issues of finance for example,and many people who would normally be more open to ideas that are in both sides drops in numbers as we become polarized. I think this hurts our nation deeply. I want to find band aids.
So my question is: does anyone have ideas to put forth on decreasing these shootings, making people feel safer? My best idea is in the opening line: I think the best way is to make the punishment much worse if someone does this. If they believe they will only receive life in jail or even the electric chair they don't have a lot to fear. It's over fast if they are executed, and they know heading into the shooting that they are giving their life up anyway. So I strongly believe we should come up with a punishment that IS cruel and possibly unusual. I won't suggest any ideas as to what that would be, but I wanted to see how people (on both sides) feel about that. And I am being for real. I think it should not be some big public thing like hangings were or anything. It should not be enjoyed in our part. It should be done behind closed doors and should be only viewable to the people performing the punishment. But it should be filmed to ensure it is still a strict procedure performed within set guidelines so that no one can go rogue and do whatever they want if they are sadistic. I find no joy in proposing this idea but after a lot of thought I feel it's one idea that doesn't get talked about in a serious manner. Like sex offender crimes someone often says "rape them and hang them...eye for an eye " and similar things but although many of us think nothing short of painful and awful death is too nice, we need to recognize that some standard must be set. I am not proposing the question with other crimes in mind. I would prefer we focus this topic to only mass shootings and the penalty for them.But one other thing to consider is stricter laws and punishment for knowingly selling or giving access to those weapons used by someone who didn't do the actual shooting as well. If a kid has been saying in Facebook he wants to kill everyone at his school for weeks,yet no one said it did anything, make them an accessory possibly. Lock up the principal or parent who knew something was possible and never said so. It's time for SOMETHING that may help and I want to hear other ideas about this.
Thank you




posted on Nov, 19 2018 @ 03:14 PM
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a reply to: Enigma Publius

I doubt that it would have any meaningful effect. Though if it deters even one prospective spree killer, then it's worth it.

But for the most part, they're mad, as in insane, and angry--a horrible combination, obviously--and a mere law will not deter.

Since that sort of crime is worthy of capital punishment...it's something to think about, at the least.



posted on Nov, 19 2018 @ 03:23 PM
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a reply to: Enigma Publius

Punishing people with death doesn't stop them from committing crimes. Never has, never will.

In this country we have a giant fetish with violence in our media. You can show people being blown away on tv and no one bats an eye. It should not be normal to watch people die, even if it's fake, and say, "this is entertaining". We should be horrified each and every time.

IMHO, you wanna fix the mass shooting problem. We need to change what people watch. If anyone dies in a movie or show. It needs to be rated r. show blood and realistic shooting. rate it x. Killing other humans should not be entertaining. It just desensitizes us to it.




edit on 19-11-2018 by grey580 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2018 @ 03:24 PM
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a reply to: seagull

Thanks for your input! I also feel it may be quite limited in actual statistics, but like you said: if it stops one it is worth it. I completely agree with that. If the laws allow us to even TRY IT we may be surprised, but as it is now the entire idea seems to be off the table



posted on Nov, 19 2018 @ 03:32 PM
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originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: Enigma Publius

Punishing people with death doesn't stop them from committing crimes. Never has, never will.

In this country we have a giant fetish with violence in our media. You can show people being blown away on tv and no one bats an eye. It should not be normal to watch people die, even if it's fake, and say, "this is entertaining". We should be horrified each and every time.

IMHO, you wanna fix the mass shooting problem. We need to change what people watch. If anyone dies in a movie or show. It needs to be rated r. show blood and realistic shooting. rate it x. Killing other humans should not be entertaining. It just desensitizes us to it.




I grew up playing Grand Theft Auto and listening to Marilyn Manson. It may surprise you to know I cannot recall a single "evil thought" or intention yet my notebook was covered in pentagrams and goat heads. It was awas. defense mechanism for me. I was intimidated and insecure and by screaming "back off!" in the outside I protected my inside in a way. As for the games, and by the way my favorite movie was Natural Born Killers, they were fun and not once did I want to go emulate what they showed.
But I'll say this: if I were inclined to.do something drastic like a shooting, I would never do it if I thought it were possible to receive the same pain. And I will say that when it comes to punishment for crimes I have considered, I didn't do them because jail is a scary place. I used to do drugs, but I behaved in them didn't make a scene, and never sold them because....jail is a scary place. Not because I had moral issues with commuting those crimes. I was scared of the punishment. So I disagree with you. There are many crimes not commuted because the person doesn't want to live in jail or what have you. Can I get a witness in that? I've heard many people say what you just did and I've always instantly thought: "well it made ME behave" death as the punishment is the increase in severity proportional to the crime IMO
edit on 19-11-2018 by Enigma Publius because: Adding a point



posted on Nov, 19 2018 @ 03:35 PM
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a reply to: Enigma Publius

Um yeah... I highly doubt the threat of harsher penalties would have any effect on the rate of mass shootings.

Since the kind of people who generally carry out mass shootings, usually intend on being dead themselves by the time its over... or they're so far gone, that they really haven't given much thought to the prospect of 'what comes next', in the first place.


edit on 19-11-2018 by Subaeruginosa because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2018 @ 03:35 PM
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The death penalty doesn't deter anyone I'm sure there's not been any killer stopped because they all of a sudden thought to themselves "Hey if I do this I'm going to get the death penalty" ....
edit on 11/19/2018 by Gargoyle91 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2018 @ 03:36 PM
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a reply to: Enigma Publius

There was a time when serious offenders were hanged until nearly dead then dragged through the street and publicly chopped up. The fact that this even occurred indicates it had a limited deterrent effect. Public floggings, burnings and so on kept happening because crazy people do crazy things.



posted on Nov, 19 2018 @ 03:37 PM
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a reply to: grey580

That has, other than in a very limited sense, little to no effect on these sorts of events. MHO, of course.

I've watched violence on TV, and in movies, my entire life, beginning with Gunsmoke, through the current John Wick franchise of movies...add to that I'm a past victim of bullying, and you'd think I'd have gone postal a long while back. Hasn't happened, not even the remotest temptation--even in the darkest, blackest moments of anger--occurred.

No, it's something else that's the key trigger. I suppose it's possible that a particular movie/program could be a deciding factor...Taxi Driver/John Hinckley/Jodie Foster, as an example.



posted on Nov, 19 2018 @ 03:38 PM
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a reply to: Subaeruginosa

That's probably very true. It's effectiveness, the death penalty, would be impossible to prove, however, since you can't prove a negative.



posted on Nov, 19 2018 @ 03:43 PM
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originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: Enigma Publius

Punishing people with death doesn't stop them from committing crimes. Never has, never will.

In this country we have a giant fetish with violence in our media. You can show people being blown away on tv and no one bats an eye. It should not be normal to watch people die, even if it's fake, and say, "this is entertaining". We should be horrified each and every time.

IMHO, you wanna fix the mass shooting problem. We need to change what people watch. If anyone dies in a movie or show. It needs to be rated r. show blood and realistic shooting. rate it x. Killing other humans should not be entertaining. It just desensitizes us to it.





Another thing I consider is this example: I do not watch porn. I have a fulfilling relationship with my wife and I feel it is the same as cheating to have that list in my heart for someone else. If I didn't have this relationship, I would probably watch porn. It's not being against pork that keeps me from watching it, it's the fact of having my wants and needs fulfilled.
Is it possible I stayed away from having thoughts of violence against the people who picked on me and humiliated me BECAUSE I had access to violent movies and games? Yes it is possible. I cannot say that it was so now that I'm grown up, have a wife, am a believer in Jesus Christ, etc. I'm too far removed from what I was to say so with complete honesty (something i hold above every other thing)
It's that love of honesty and not being tied to my past because I can wake up tomorrow a better, different person than I was today that makes me speak so candidly about my past. I am not ashamed that I did drugs or had three copies of the satanic bible in my youth, that's not who I am today.
But I can remember my mindset and I know the thought of punishments kept me from certain crimes. I don't see why the more extreme examples of death should be different even though I didn't consider worse crimes.



posted on Nov, 19 2018 @ 03:45 PM
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originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: Enigma Publius

Um yeah... I highly doubt the threat of harsher penalties would have any effect on the rate of mass shootings.

Since the kind of people who generally carry out mass shootings, usually intend on being dead themselves by the time its over... or they're so far gone, that they really haven't given much thought to the prospect of 'what comes next', in the first place.


That's what I mean. They are already giving up their life. Make that end that awaits them awful, horrible, and full of pain.
I can't think of any other changes proposed that will help.



posted on Nov, 19 2018 @ 03:45 PM
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a reply to: Enigma Publius

Harsher punishment is a great thought for normal people, but obviously the people who commit these shootings aren't normal. They already don't plan on living past the crime, since they almost always kill themselves after the massacre, right there on the spot.



posted on Nov, 19 2018 @ 03:45 PM
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Use a gun to commit murder or felony homicide and automatic death penalty within one year. Same for those who molest children.

Once it is seen in action I believe it will deter some. If not, at least those with no respect for other's rights will be gone.
edit on 11/19/2018 by roadgravel because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2018 @ 03:46 PM
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a reply to: Enigma Publius

That is just crazy!
It wont stop anybody, and if you want to torture someone, it means you will need people willing to torture other people. Thought the goal was to get less crazy people like that in society.

Take a look at our leaders, and take a look at society.
It is all about hate. Youre hated if youre a trump supporter, youre hated if you vote democrat, youre hated if youre an immigrant, youre hated if you are born citizen, you hated if you white, youre hated if you black, youre hated for being a man. It is just pure hate everywhere!!!

What is our solution? To hate the opposite site, it is ALL their fault! Ying and Yang hate each other at the moment, but what people fail to realize is that you cant have one without the other.
Their is no light, if there is no dark - that is just how it is.

But we all hate each other, and nothing is one owns fault. That seems to be the norm in society.
But when youre hated, and got nothing left to loose, things like this happens.

We all have to take a deep hard look inside ourself, and figure out how WE OURSELF can be better persons and dont bring so much hate in to the world. If you want harder punishment for what happens out there in the world, then start by punishing yourself, cause we all got a share in how this world has turned out. But like i said, punishment will change NOTHING!. It is just more hate...



posted on Nov, 19 2018 @ 03:49 PM
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a reply to: Enigma Publius

if you shoot more than 2 people, you won't have your name mentioned again ever, your existence on this earth is scrubbed, you are put to death, and nobody, lest your family, will ever know you breathed air on this earth. Take away the incentive, and you will save lives.



posted on Nov, 19 2018 @ 03:51 PM
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originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: grey580

That has, other than in a very limited sense, little to no effect on these sorts of events. MHO, of course.

I've watched violence on TV, and in movies, my entire life, beginning with Gunsmoke, through the current John Wick franchise of movies...add to that I'm a past victim of bullying, and you'd think I'd have gone postal a long while back. Hasn't happened, not even the remotest temptation--even in the darkest, blackest moments of anger--occurred.

No, it's something else that's the key trigger. I suppose it's possible that a particular movie/program could be a deciding factor...Taxi Driver/John Hinckley/Jodie Foster, as an example.



We agree here for sure.I've been exposed to violent movies and online videos my whole life and can't recall a single example of wanting to do those things that was seriously considered.
When I was a bullied kid I would have thoughts like "someone shou!d show THEM what it's like to be humiliated" or whatever but even in those moments I recall thinking "maybe they do, I don't know know what they deal with at home that may make them pick on me"
So I've always had empathy even for my oppressors. It definitely takes someone without empathy to blue that dude and go do something life a shooting probably.
But I stlll think they may "chicken out" similar to what kept me from certain drug crimes that would have been felonies and stuck to misdemeanors because I was frightened out the consequences.



posted on Nov, 19 2018 @ 03:51 PM
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a reply to: Enigma Publius

We need to look into ways to treat mental illness better.
In the past they just locked people in insane asylums or did horrible shock treatment or lobotomies.

I don't think they do anything now, people just fall in the cracks.
Mental health care will help solve some of these issues.

#2 fines for any news outlets that sensationalizes mass shooting.



posted on Nov, 19 2018 @ 03:53 PM
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I also think we need to put more technology into civilian weapons right now they are still very primitive , If there was some kind of shut off switch or stress detection incorporated it would save life's . That's the future but we need to start now .
edit on 11/19/2018 by Gargoyle91 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2018 @ 03:53 PM
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There won't be repeat offends for murder and sex crimes. But feeling sorry leaves the door open and many have stepped through it in the past.



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