Brussels tells Theresa May - delaying Brexit will cost UK £10bn

a reply to: [post=23970896]ScepticScot[/po

oh, come on!
" You have failed repeatedly to explain what you think european debt of 10 years ago has got to do with brexit ( the topic). I suspect because you haven't got a clue."

thats just puerile. brexit is an issue because of sovereign and financial concerns.
the video was there to illustrate the financial aspect
i thought a little levity might be welcome, but obviously not

originally posted by: username74
a reply to: [post=23970896]ScepticScot[/po

oh, come on!
" You have failed repeatedly to explain what you think european debt of 10 years ago has got to do with brexit ( the topic). I suspect because you haven't got a clue."

thats just puerile. brexit is an issue because of sovereign and financial concerns.
the video was there to illustrate the financial aspect
i thought a little levity might be welcome, but obviously not

No problem with levity, problem with the lack of relevance.

a reply to: sapien82

and just in case you miss the link heres the conclusion

Finally, let’s add one more factor: while there might be peace in Europe (some parts of it), that does not mean European countries are not at war. In fact, many EU-members have been involved in a series of interventions abroad, including the Korean War (involving numerous EU countries), the Algerian War (involving France), the Ifni War (involving France and Spain), the Portuguese colonial wars, the Falklands War (involving the UK), the War in Iraq (involving the UK), the War in Afghanistan (involving numerous EU countries), the military interventions in Iraq and Syria in the fight against ISIS, the military intervention in Libya, and Operation Barkhane in Mali (mostly involving France).

If anything, Western Europe has exported its war efforts abroad while tapping itself on the back for how peaceful their own region has been.

In Conclusion

The answer to ”Has the European Union Maintained Peace in Europe?” is, objectively, “No.” What is true is that Europe has maintained relative peace since 1945 by providing incentives for countries to peacefully cooperate. The political union that is the EU has only existed since 1993 and is not necessary for the existence of treaties fostering trade relations.

Additionally, the EU cannot claim to be a force for stability in the world because its members are either constantly involved in military conflicts abroad, or practicing a US-like foreign policy of interventionism that is supposed to defend "European interests and values.”

True Pax Europaea has yet to be achieved.

a reply to: ScepticScot

just cling to that relevance mantra then.

originally posted by: username74
a reply to: ScepticScot

just cling to that relevance mantra then.

How many times does the EU actually get mentioned in that video?

a reply to: ScepticScot

well its entitled "european debt crisis" and european economies is mentioned 5 times which isnt bad for a 2m 36 sec vid.
but i imagine thats probably irrelevant /sarc

a reply to: ScepticScot

heres another skit, for greece.
for a laugh
www.youtube.com...

and another
www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: username74
it maybe a ridiculous arrangement to you , but its the first time since Europe has seen no conflict between its member states!

So why are they talking about a 'security council' and an 'EU army'

Perhaps its to keep peace with all the problems of the immigrants?

so despite your opinion on the EU being ridiculous it's actually on paper a really great idea to co-operate for the mutual benefit of all rather than fight and bicker over wealth and status

40 years ago the UK joined the EEC, a common market which was to promote

effective and cheaper trading. Now we are having trouble leaving a bloated

money absorbing, largely unelected EU which has its own flag, anthem, currency

and President.

Last week Angela Merkle put forward the need for a *security council* and French

President Macron is calling for an *EU army* to defend itself against the US, Russia

and China.... (how far away from a trading is that?)

I also heard somewhere when we fully leave and are no longer restricted by the

clauses the EU is trying to stick us with, we will be able to lower our cost of

living by lowering tariffs imposed on us by the EU for imports.


Figures released last week show that Germany's GDP is down, mostly due to a

motor sector slump, only a small drop but .... the first drop in their GDP in three

years. (Thats most of the time we have been trying to leave) Its no wonder they

are screwing us for money at every turn.

We are trying to leave a failing project when 17 of the 27 members (more than

half) have economies that are in decline.


Where are the ATS members now who keep deriding the UK's imperial past with

this modern imperialist EU.

Last week the democratically voted in government of one member (Italy) voted in

a budget that went against EU dictats...... They have been informed by the

EU IF they go ahead with it, they will be hit with a series of hefty fines .....

Does anyone need reminding about Greece

IS THE EU REALLY THE FUTURE? ...... Not in my book.

a reply to: username74

and one for the us in the u.k
www.youtube.com...
reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
www.youtube.com...
lawi.org.uk...

originally posted by: The GUT

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

You raise some very good points Eletheia and you are obviously very clued up on the EU situation, probably far more than muggins here and the legal side you mention I know nothing really so thanks for that heads up there.

Yes she does. Intellect, logic, and balls (metaphorically of course.) Now you, Orb, your bollocks...sigh...

She fights the good fight with some might. Here's to you, eletheia. I'd take her on my team any day.

Hahhhaaa Dream on all you like...................... Also this team thing well that is exactly what we in Europe have been trying to throw off for the past 70 years, we have slowly moulded to become a singular unit for the first time since the Roman Empire and its all been going rather well as we stopped warring and massacrieng for the first time since that time way back when. Why risk economic prosperity and impending war and mass slaughter just to appease a few drunken jingoistic Dam Busters loving ethno nationalists

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: eletheia

What? You would counter that with hearsay from your family in the colonies, but without hearsay?

How so? And more importantly, why?

Not all hearsay..... I was there when my father was on 20 hour shifts trying

to keep the peace and stop the two main religious factions from killing each

other..... Not the Brits murdering the natives.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter
"Also this team thing well that is exactly what we in Europe have been trying to throw off for the past 70 years, we have slowly moulded to become a singular unit for the first time since the Roman Empire and its all been going rather well as we stopped warring and massacrieng for the first time since that time way back when. Why risk economic prosperity and impending war and mass slaughter just to appease a few drunken jingoistic Dam Busters loving ethno nationalists"

whos we, paleface?
you clearly have almost no knowledge of history!
didnt watch the earlier video on ideological subversion, did you?
or read this
"The answer to ”Has the European Union Maintained Peace in Europe?” is, objectively, “No.” What is true is that Europe has maintained relative peace since 1945 by providing incentives for countries to peacefully cooperate. The political union that is the EU has only existed since 1993 and is not necessary for the existence of treaties fostering trade relations.

Additionally, the EU cannot claim to be a force for stability in the world because its members are either constantly involved in military conflicts abroad, or practicing a US-like foreign policy of interventionism that is supposed to defend "European interests and values.”

True Pax Europaea has yet to be achieved."

originally posted by: username74Additionally, the EU cannot claim to be a force for stability in the world because its members are either constantly involved in military conflicts abroad, or practicing a US-like foreign policy of interventionism that is supposed to defend "European interests and values.”

Total nonsense if you believe that when all states are predatory by their very nature. Humanity is the power behind them and run on capitalist principles.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter
i challenge you to show me any of that statement is "total nonsense" as you rashly claim.
double dog dare ya.
humanity runs on human psychology. states are collections of humans within a geographical grouping.
human civilisation is based on lies backed by violence since the neolithic and with the introduction of fiat currency,
sociopaths are attracted to the biggest pile of loot (tax revenue) and the best sociopaths get to run it.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

I think you'll find the 'peace' that has been maintained in Europe since WWII has been more to do with NATO and Mutually Assured Destruction rather than the amoral, corrupt and dictatorial EU.

You seem to have become a bit of a flip-flopper - first you were a Remainer then you acknowledged the legality, moral commitment and benefits of Brexit....you seem to have changed your mind, yet again.

NO DEAL!

a reply to: Freeborn

with respect, Tovarich, the initial claim is false.

The post-WWII period is not an exception to the warlust of the European continent. While the case can be made that the Schuman plan has lowered the tensions in Western Europe, the rest of the continent has seen a total number of 41 armed conflicts. Most of these conflicts either were restricted to a small area or occurred within a single state: for instance, the Greek Civil War, the Romanian Revolution, the Border campaign of the IRA in Ireland, the Albanian Civil War, the Years of Lead in Italy, and the Basque conflict between the ETA and Spain.

Other conflicts were linked to the resistance to the Soviet Union, including the Hungarian Revolution, the 1956 Poznań protests in Poland, and the 1953 Uprising in East Germany.

Lastly, there were also actual interstate military conflicts, amongst which were the Ten-Day War between Slovenia and Yugoslavia, the Turkish invasion of Cyprus, the Transnistrian War, the Cod Wars between Iceland and forces of the UK, Belgium, and West Germany, the Kosovo War, and the war in Bosnia.

The organization called the European Union and the continent of Europe (which all so often is willfully mistaken) have different track records when it comes to keeping their war machinery locked away.

a reply to: username74

Ok, should have said 'relative peace' since WWII.

Anyone can post a list of conflicts from any continent during any timeframe.....but its pretty obvious to anyone of any level of intelligence that everyone posting about 'peace' in Europe since WWII has meant that there has been no major conflict between major regional powers and no global conflict.

You know that's what has been meant....yet you repeatedly post a list of conflicts - including terrorist campaigns - one has to wonder why?

My original point remains valid; NATO and M.A.D. have ensured 'relative peace' in Europe since WWII and not the EU.

a reply to: Freeborn

"You know that's what has been meant....yet you repeatedly post a list of conflicts - including terrorist campaigns - one has to wonder why?"

because to be on the receiving end of different sources violence makes no difference to the victim. sanctioned or terrorism.
and yes your original point is valid, i was just challenging the other posters contention .
have to be clear on points or people will pull my statements apart

a reply to: SprocketUK

the news was intensely biased for remain...but hey, don't let that stop you.

Oh Really.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

i hope you are able to discredit all those headlines otherwise that could be a tad embarrassing, lol